lets ALL figure out the fogging of tubing issues!!!

[Hens]

yes, being more acidic would be bad.

your radiator won't be thanking you for it after prolonged use, especially if its at 2-3ph....

[NaeKuh]

dude i make $21 hour\$31.50 overtime,i could care less about the money.the fesser 1 PURE water looks better to me then $0.69 cent jug of distilled water.mabye your right...but mabye not.

:T

money is still money

And you should be thankful in this economy. :T

[gillbot]

dude i make $21 hour\$31.50 overtime,i could care less about the money.

Here comes another "I make more money than you" pissing contest.

I make $5.50/hr picking up garbage, so what. Does that mean I'm not worthy of anything better?

[Snyxxx]

I know 3603 will still "fog" even with pure distilled.

I know there is a post somewhere in here about a piece of 3603 placed into a cup of distilled water. A week later it was fogged. Remove from water and let it air dry, no more fog.

I think it is water absorption by the tubing that makes it look "fogged". I put a lot of heat intop my loop with only a PA 120.2 and maybe that affects this absorption rate in comparison to those of you that do not notice this with pure distilled.

Mine always fog eventually.

[sfxs]

For 2 years and 2 months (Dec. 07 to Feb 09) I ran the following loop:

Iwaki MD20RLZT (Polypropylene)
Cast red brass reducer coupling
Kynar (aka PVDF (Polyvinylidene fluoride)) plastic barbs / tee / couples
AquaXtreme MP-05 LE (nickel, copper, Delrin (Polyoxymethylene plastic))
Swiftech MCW50 (copper, Delrin (Polyoxymethylene plastic))
Nickel plated yellow brass barbs
Thermochill PA120.3 (yellow brass?)
Masterkleer 7/16" ID tubing (PVC, other?)
Distilled w/ PT_Nuke (CuSO4)
All components were cleaned/flushed with an OCD-level of clean - 3 sets of 18 hr soaks in vinegar/water solution with water flushes over 1 week for the radiator, as an example.

So a material breakdown of that is:
Nickel, copper, red brass, yellow brass, Polyvinylidene fluoride, Polyoxymethylene plastic, PVC, whatever else is in Masterkleer tubing, and CuSO4.

The entire loop was closed in a steel case with nil for external light. Here are my observations:

1. Tubing began to cloud ~1 year into use.
2. Only the loop clouded, not the stationary water in the fillport line.
3. Tubing noticebly cloudier ~ 2 years into use.
4. Fillport line still crystal clear.

I did have to top up the system every ~6 months - about 2 fl. oz. worth.
Math Warning: 6" roughly of the tubing (7/16") ~= 3.6 cubic inches of water. IIRC ~= 1.8 cubic inch to a fluid ounce.

Total water "consumption" ~ 1/3 of a fl. oz. per month.
When emptying the loop, the water was not cloudy, and the tubing remained cloudy even after flush & brush).

My Opinion: There is a reaction with the tubing, water, and light. My tubing clouded far slower than similar loops that were exposed to light (from my reading of the forums). The cloudiness was a result of water evaporating through the pores in the tubing, bringing with it various impurities resulting from the components in the loop - or, evaporation exacerbated by the pressure in the loop portion of the tubing as compared to the fillport line.

Final Thoughts: Cloudy tubing is an aesthetic issue only. If you absolutely must have clear tubing, find something non porous ( $$$), or change your tubing every ~6 mo. ( elbow grease). Also, the less you look at the tubing (less light), the clearer it will be ().

The opinions expressed above do not reflect any expertise in chemistry, or maybe any science at all - someone else have at it.
-sfxs

[Zehnsucht]

everyone read this FULLY::::::


i talked to the ENGINEER AGAIN today on the phone at TYGON...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and for the guys calling fesser 1 aqua pure water not distilled.your WRONG its bi -distilled water,meaning twice distilled.
[bla bla bla feser marketing bla bla]
The PH-Value is 2.0 – 3.0 and lies in the acid ph-range.

Wow, dude, seriously, as Snyxxx posted at the beginning of this thread this has already been investigated:

OK... starting to receive info from SaintGobain's Tech Dept... and word at the moment is that R3603 Tygon is NOT the tubing we should be using... they're still working thru the datasheets to find the perfect tubing for our purposes, but they've already stated that R3603 effectively isn't it, and that with the properties of our typical coolants, yes, it will cloud/stain over time. Adding ANYTHING which contains Glycol will worsen / speed up the staining.

Bear with me - more info as I get it...

Official word from Saint Gobain has come thru - Tygon 2075 is the best "clear" tubing they produce for our purposes. A bit stiffer (not as flexible) than R3603. They're sending me a sample...

And seriously.. 2-3 pH?

[Sadasius]

I have been running tests myself on Tygon R-3603 to see what was doing it and it has to be the tubing itself because I have tested pretty much everything that could be an outside influence and the damn stuff still fogged up. Thought the filter was helping but in the end it did not. I was using a 5 micron sediment filter to see if it was rad flux, metal corrosion or whatever. Did not work! Still fogged! I know the thread is a few months old but thought I would add to this anyway. Couple pics...

[Brodholm]

Is the tubing still cloudy after you take it out and let it dry for some days?

[Sadasius]

Is the tubing still cloudy after you take it out and let it dry for some days?

Yes. Well the stuff from all the tests have not all been left out for more then 6 hours so far but yeah the stuff taken from the build to put in the filter has a white powdery type coating. It's a very fine film.

[Brodholm]

Hmm, I took about 2 days for me before the tubing dried up. You could see on the sides first that it was drying. It was turning clear on the edges. And that tubing was only half a inch long.

[GrossmeisterB]

Hmm, I took about 2 days for me before the tubing dried up. You could see on the sides first that it was drying. It was turning clear on the edges. And that tubing was only half a inch long.

That's very interesting! I also had my R-3603 getting foggy after 2,5 weeks of holidays in Småland ( )...I thought it was due to the mixture of my Innovatec-protect stuff, but when I saw that thread I was like "wtf, it's not only me having that problem" ^^

[LOUISSSSS]

my masterkleer + distilled + silver didn't turn cloudy after 4 months of usage.

it did turn yellowish tho, but still clear. the last time i drained/filled in loop was about 3 months ago. i dont drain if i dont see any problems or change anything.

[Sadasius]

Hmm, I took about 2 days for me before the tubing dried up. You could see on the sides first that it was drying. It was turning clear on the edges. And that tubing was only half a inch long.

I used about 4" of tube per test. It did clear very much after drying. It is not like the tubing in a loop at all with the thin film on the inside. I am wondering if the pressure or vacuum of a loop has a strong affect in making the plasticizer leach out more or differently. But it did not matter on what liquid from Distilled water without anything to Distilled shaken from parts or with PT Nuke. It all fogged up.

[3Z3VH]

Saying "I tested pretty much everything and it is the tubing that caused the clouding" doesn't tell us anything about your testing methodology.

Please tell us the process you went through to determine that this 1/4" of sediment in your reservoir is all just plasticizer. I am having a hard time believeing all that sedimant came from 4" of tubing unless that tubing is now 1/8" larger on its inner diameter !

[Sadasius]

Saying "I tested pretty much everything and it is the tubing that caused the clouding" doesn't tell us anything about your testing methodology.

Please tell us the process you went through to determine that this 1/4" of sediment in your reservoir is all just plasticizer. I am having a hard time believeing all that sedimant came from 4" of tubing unless that tubing is now 1/8" larger on its inner diameter !

Who are you talking to?

[3Z3VH]

I have been running tests myself on Tygon R-3603 to see what was doing it and it has to be the tubing itself because I have tested pretty much everything that could be an outside influence and the damn stuff still fogged up.
... {Pictures} ...

Who are you talking to?

You.

[Sadasius]

Please tell us the process you went through to determine that this 1/4" of sediment in your reservoir is all just plasticizer. I am having a hard time believeing all that sedimant came from 4" of tubing unless that tubing is now 1/8" larger on its inner diameter !

I never said anything like this at all. Hence why I was confused on who your were talking to. An if you want to know what I did then go here--> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...did-cloud.html

[3Z3VH]

With all the frikking crazy equipment people in these forums have access to, why has no one taken a sample of the white clouding in these tubes and brought it to a lab to find out what it is made up of ? Once we know what it is made of, we can find out where it comes from.

[Sadasius]

That was the next step actually that I was going to do. Just got to find a lab that will do it at a good price now.

[LiQuidator]

Feser Aqua - FA - Ultra Pure Water


Description

Feser Aqua - The cleanest Source!

We have done it again with an even purer type of coolant, Feser Aqua which is a Bi-Distilled water (2 times distilled) and specially designed for todays PC watercooling market.

If your seeking a pure non conductive coolant with no dye pigments to corrupt the solution then this is 100% what you have been looking for!

Feser Aqua is the cleanest source on the market today.

Feser Aqua or FA for short was filtered through 2 different processes of destillation, hence the term Bi-Distilled!

Feser Aqua has to first of all passed through the reverse osmosis system, and shortly after this into the downstreamed De-Ionized system.

The PH-Value is 2.0 – 3.0 and lies in the acid ph-range.

Link: http://www.feser-one.com/site/produc...roducts_id=267
Link: http://www.feser-one.com/site/produc...roducts_id=255
Link: http://www.dangerden.com/store/files.../ex-liq-75.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Some Comparisons

Distilled water PH 7.0
Lemon Juice PH 2.3
Vinegar PH 2.4 - 3.4

Reference: http://extension.usu.edu/files/publi...wq_2005-19.pdf


Some One Screwed Up At Feser.

1. Reverse Osmosis is not a distillation process.
2. De ionization is not a distillation process.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purifie...e-distillation
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis
Reference: http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/wat...di-process.htm

3. pH of distilled water is pH 7.0 and is thus neutral.

Feser's Advertising list's their water as having a pH 2.0 - 3.0. which is acidic.

The same acidity levels as either lemon juice or vinager.

This acidity level will definitely accelerate clouding of your tubes.

This needs to be corrected Feser!