stained tubing..

[Aldy402]

I've been through about 4-5 loops in my lifetime and it seems that every time I drain the system . I get stained tubes.

If I was using Hydrx, it would be stained green, or zerex would be purple.

I know im not using too much, im using the minimum, so im good on that

But i've always used cheap Masterkleer, is that the problem? so go with Tygon next time? Or is there some sort of additive I can buy to keep the tubes clear? I've also heard that Masterkleer is generally not as clear and non cloudy as premium tubing.

[IanY]

Makes no difference. Tygon will eventually go cloudy as well.

[Aldy402]

theres no additive or liquid based solution to keep it clean?

[IanY]

Nope. The best way to keep it clean is to use plain distilled water with colorless additive and to change your liquid often.. like every two months. I change 1/2 my loop every month by simply emptying out my reservoir and refilling. So far so good, but it'll cloud up eventually.

Some people have had success with more dracionian methods such as liquid bleach and toilet bowl cleaner, but I would avoid that if I were you. Hydrochloric acid and acetic acid, no matter how diluted, cannot be good for copper waterblocks and radiators.

Don't think that using expensive Tygon will eliminate the clouding. It'll prolong the period of clear tubes, but that's about it. In general, I expect to replace all my tubes every year anyway.

Use 2% Zerex rather than 5% Zerex. Use diluted Hydrx unless you have true algae problems. Diluted additives help. But stay away from Masterkleer.

[Marci]

Purely cos I don't know if anyone's done this yet, have just emailed SaintGobain a pile of datasheets for the common additives, and a list of their products that we all tend to use (Tygon R3603, R3400, SM, and their Vincon "Masterkleer" range) requesting one of their guys recommend a specific line of clear tubing that suits our purposes but will minimise any risk of clouding / staining etc... will let you know what they say (if anything)...

[Aldy402]

Purely cos I don't know if anyone's done this yet, have just emailed SaintGobain a pile of datasheets for the common additives, and a list of their products that we all tend to use (Tygon R3603, R3400, SM, and their Vincon "Masterkleer" range) requesting one of their guys recommend a specific line of clear tubing that suits our purposes but will minimise any risk of clouding / staining etc... will let you know what they say (if anything)...

that would be awesome, thanks
I know im not the only one tired of replacing tubing all the time

[IanY]

You should get those black or silver tubes.. never see clouding.. peace of mind haha

[Marci]

OK... starting to receive info from SaintGobain's Tech Dept... and word at the moment is that R3603 Tygon is NOT the tubing we should be using... they're still working thru the datasheets to find the perfect tubing for our purposes, but they've already stated that R3603 effectively isn't it, and that with the properties of our typical coolants, yes, it will cloud/stain over time. Adding ANYTHING which contains Glycol will worsen / speed up the staining.

Bear with me - more info as I get it...

[hopper]

thanks dude ... marci

[Nephilim]

Subscribed.

Although I just bought 20 feet of masterkleer (SO CHEAP!) I would welcome any tubing that never clouds so long is it wasn't amazingly overpriced.

This is my first loop running nothing but distilled and a colourless plast-safe anti-fungal. We'll see how quick it clouds haha.

[hopper]

maybe insted of remcommending a different tube they might have some ideas on a different additive to the distilled insted of the Glycol based stuff

[Marci]

They're a tubing company, not an additive producer. The folks to ask there would be the guys making the additives, not the guys making the tubing.

[hopper]

marci... how big is pc watercooling in the tube industry for companys like tygon, small part of the pie for them?

[Marci]

Miniscule - far less than 1% of total sales.

[Sparky]

Would be great if we finally found tubing that wouldn't stain or cloud. Thanks for checking this out Marci.

[thunderstruck!]

Use 2% Zerex rather than 5% Zerex. Use diluted Hydrx unless you have true algae problems. Diluted additives help. But stay away from Masterkleer.

Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

[IanY]

Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

I'm 100% with you on this.

[Aldy402]

You should get those black or silver tubes.. never see clouding.. peace of mind haha

good point but i can imagine the troubles when bleeding your loop esp. with a t-line

[Marci]

Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

Missing my point...

yes, it will cloud/stain over time. Adding ANYTHING which contains Glycol will worsen / speed up the staining

Additives speed up clouding... even with plain distilled and nothing else, it will still cloud in time... just not as quickly, hence R3603 isn't what folks should really be using. There are formulations which will take MUCH longer to cloud, and this is what we're after... but none that will guarantee no clouding whatsoever.

[Aldy402]

Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

yea but in my experiences (cant speak for anybody else)
I use a reservoir and I eliminate a lot of the waterfall and sloshing sounds with hydrx. It changes the surface tension getting rid of bubbles.

It just makes me loop more silent for some odd reason that I cant explain

but i guess with a t-line it wouldn't even matter

[IanY]

yea but in my experiences (cant speak for anybody else)
I use a reservoir and I eliminate a lot of the waterfall and sloshing sounds with hydrx. It changes the surface tension getting rid of bubbles.

It just makes me loop more silent for some odd reason that I cant explain

but i guess with a t-line it wouldn't even matter

I get your point, but has there ever been an instance when the bubbles in a system do not eventually bleed out, even if it takes a few days when using a T-line?

[Aldy402]

I get your point, but has there ever been an instance when the bubbles in a system do not eventually bleed out, even if it takes a few days when using a T-line?

good point as well but how long does regular distilled water usually last until you start getting buildup in your loop and I remember reading somewhere that it really clogs your block.

regular distilled means more maintenance, but i guess thats the trade off

[Marci]

I use a reservoir and I eliminate a lot of the waterfall and sloshing sounds with hydrx. It changes the surface tension getting rid of bubbles.

Then you needed more water in the reservoir. Expect sloshing sounds for the first day or two until all tiny encapsulated airbubbles are bled. Once they're gone, as long as reservoir is FULL to capacity there should be no noise from it. No need for additive to achieve this, only to achieve it quicker. Sloshing reoccurs if water-level drops. Again, additive tension reduction merely prevents you hearing it for when you cba to do something about it. In reality, if you hear sloshing again it means something needs bleeding or filling. Do so and noise should go away again.

S'a matter of convenience vs doing what is necessary to run the rig "correctly"...

Quick and Easy generally always involves a sacrifice elsewhere... this is the lesson most need to learn along the way in watercooling... patience!

[Marci]

how long does regular distilled water usually last until you start getting buildup in your loop and I remember reading somewhere that it really clogs your block.

You read wrong. If getting any buildup using nothing but distilled, you have mixed metals somewhere...

The buildup most report is the additive separating from the distilled water, or other contaminations... distilled on it's own has nothing to separate down into that can become a buildup etc.

Plain distilled on it's own in a quality loop (no mixedmetals) = less maintenance.

Distilled + Additive = additive needs refreshing every xx months (differs from additive to additive) without fail to maintain anticorrosive properties.
Non-Conductive coolants = collect ions over time becoming conductive unless refreshed every xx months also.

[Aldy402]

Then you needed more water in the reservoir. Expect sloshing sounds for the first day or two until all tiny encapsulated airbubbles are bled. Once they're gone, as long as reservoir is FULL to capacity there should be no noise from it. No need for additive to achieve this, only to achieve it quicker. Sloshing reoccurs if water-level drops. Again, additive tension reduction merely prevents you hearing it for when you cba to do something about it. In reality, if you hear sloshing again it means something needs bleeding or filling. Do so and noise should go away again.

S'a matter of convenience vs doing what is necessary to run the rig "correctly"...

Quick and Easy generally always involves a sacrifice elsewhere... this is the lesson most need to learn along the way in watercooling... patience!

your absolutely right but I did have the res full. I waited about 2-3 days and it was still noisy, It drove me crazy because there was no explanation for it but ultimately i think it was just the res. It was a 5.25 acrylic. already ordered a swiftech micro res