Apple attempts to justify non-removable batteries

[soundood]

now i am PC all the way, but i was an Apple service engineer, for a long time, even recently i went back to make some money (and money i made lol)

but here is the typical situation:

customer turns up with Powerbook/Power Mac (£1100 worth say, more usually), (out of warrenty by 1 month)

'wont boot' tried the instal discs,

take it in and see within 5 mins that the logic board (Motherboard) has failed.

wait 3 days before calling customer, then call and tell them the problem.

quote them on new Logic board and labour (logic board £375 + Labour £140 + VAT@17.5% = £605.13

the usual reply? 'your kidding me right?'

'no sir i am not kidding'

'but all my work is on there! and isnt backed up!'

'yes sir' and data recovery will cost you £200 + VAT'

ok ill pay for the repair, VISA Credit Card?


Apple's days are numbered with this carry on, the amount of customers that i seen, that just said 'F**K IT' was allways increasing, they are a little more tech savvy now.

like now they realise that any USB hard drive will work with there MAC, and not just the 'recommended' Lacie drives.

if Apple wants to survive in this game now, the next step must be totaly disposable Laptops and PC's, that you recycle after a year, that are priced reaonably (if there is such a thing with apple) then this green rip off could maybe work.

[[XC] Lead Head]

If you guys want to extend your battery life in ipod's and laptops stop overcharging them. Charge em and unplug them, dont leave em in the outlet for a week

You can't over charge any lithium-ion worth its salt. The control circuitry will cut the charger off, or limit current and voltage to keep it at a steady float charge.

[Newblar]

looks like more apple marketing
they bank on the idiot consumer buying up their overpriced products

[RaZz!]

lmao, that's hilarious. atleast for us it will always remain an attempt only

[FischOderAal]

Hmmmm. I'm always suprised how many like to rant Apple. Yes, non-removable batteries suck, no doubt about it. But why did nobody cursed Dell as they showed their Adamo? From the pictures I've seen the battery isn't removable as well.
Take a look at this picture:
http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...k-05_large.jpg
Source: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3495

So if Apple does something it's "boohoooo, you stink Apple!" and if Dell does the same it doesn't concern anybody? Just the same with the glass display. Apple does it with its MacBooks, everybody rants them for it. The Adamo has a glass display as well and suddenly it's OK? That's ridiculous to say the least.

Apple's days are numbered with this carry on, the amount of customers that i seen, that just said 'F**K IT' was allways increasing, they are a little more tech savvy now.

Really? How come apple's customers are still the happiest, as a recent poll showed?
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/02/19/lates...mers-happiest/

Furthermore I've seen a vastly increasing number of Mac users, not a declining one. And the ones that switch seem to agree to that poll, I've not come across one that said "screw you, I'm going back to a PC".

And yes, there are MacBooks that fail, just like with every brand, but it's not such a number that should concern anybody. Plus the apple warranty is quite accommodating, if it's a typical failure (ie cracks in the body of the white MacBooks) they often repair it without charging you anything after the warranty period...

I'm not asking any of you to like any of Apple's products, I'm just asking for more objectivity. Heck, I don't like the MacBook Air, the new MacBook Pro or any of the iPods, so who cares? I even got a iPod Nano 8 GB lying here that I got for free and guess what? I'm not keeping it, I'm selling it. There are better MP3-players for less money out there.

@XSAlliN: Yes, Apple screws it customers over RAM-pricing. That's really stupid. Thank god you can upgrade it yourself without loosing the warranty.

[HiJon89]

Hmmmm. I'm always suprised how many like to rant Apple. Yes, non-removable batteries suck, no doubt about it. But why did nobody cursed Dell as they showed their Adamo? From the pictures I've seen the battery isn't removable as well.
Take a look at this picture:
http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...k-05_large.jpg
Source: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3495

So if Apple does something it's "boohoooo, you stink Apple!" and if Dell does the same it doesn't concern anybody? Just the same with the glass display. Apple does it with its MacBooks, everybody rants them for it. The Adamo has a glass display as well and suddenly it's OK? That's ridiculous to say the least.

I don't see anyone with a Dell here either And we don't know if the finished Adamo will have a removable battery or glass display. If it does, at least it won't be as overpriced as a Mac and at least Dell won't try to justify their choices by claiming they want to help the environment, and not assf*** their customers even further.

[aka1nas]

The laptop battery is indefensible, but I could see the argument for smaller mobile devices if they were using lithium-polymer batteries. Those are often molded into odd shapes in order to minimize device footprint and it would make some sense if they weren't user-replaceable.

[FischOderAal]

I don't see anyone with a Dell here either

And your point is? All I meantioned was that I didn't see such a rant about Dell's Adamo around the web as about the new MacBooks with the glass display. I didn't say you're Dell lovers, or at least that's not what I wanted to say My point was that many rant about the Apple's products, just because of the company and not the product itself.

And we don't know if the finished Adamo will have a removable battery or glass display. If it does, at least it won't be as overpriced as a Mac and at least Dell won't try to justify their choices by claiming they want to help the environment, and not assf*** their customers even further.

It surely will be cheaper, otherwise Dell would ridicule themself. We'll see about the rest though.

[Kingcarcas]

Well go ahead and start the Dell thread so we can start bashing

[Serra]

Hmmmm. I'm always suprised how many like to rant Apple. Yes, non-removable batteries suck, no doubt about it. But why did nobody cursed Dell as they showed their Adamo? From the pictures I've seen the battery isn't removable as well.
Take a look at this picture:
http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...k-05_large.jpg
Source: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3495

So if Apple does something it's "boohoooo, you stink Apple!" and if Dell does the same it doesn't concern anybody? Just the same with the glass display. Apple does it with its MacBooks, everybody rants them for it. The Adamo has a glass display as well and suddenly it's OK? That's ridiculous to say the least.

1. Mac doesn't do this with just one product - it's every laptop they make, as well as anything else electronic.
2. To re-state what someone else has, Mac will tell you it's a "feature" and charge you more for it.

Really? How come apple's customers are still the happiest, as a recent poll showed?
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/02/19/lates...mers-happiest/

Ignorance is bliss.

[Donnie27]

1. Mac doesn't do this with just one product - it's every laptop they make, as well as anything else electronic.
2. To re-state what someone else has, Mac will tell you it's a "feature" and charge you more for it.

Ignorance is bliss.

Yepp, built-in Obsolescence!

I still got the Wife an iPhone because she wanted one so bad. I'd NEVER touch one of their Laptops.

[Russian]

10 bucks says the person who rated this thread 1 star is a maclover.

[CmB]

10 bucks says the person who rated this thread 1 star is a maclover.

I done fixed that. This here's a two star thread now.

--Chris

[johndoe]

Hmmmm. I'm always suprised how many like to rant Apple. Yes, non-removable batteries suck, no doubt about it. But why did nobody cursed Dell as they showed their Adamo? From the pictures I've seen the battery isn't removable as well.
Take a look at this picture:
http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...k-05_large.jpg
Source: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3495

So if Apple does something it's "boohoooo, you stink Apple!" and if Dell does the same it doesn't concern anybody? Just the same with the glass display. Apple does it with its MacBooks, everybody rants them for it. The Adamo has a glass display as well and suddenly it's OK? That's ridiculous to say the least.



Really? How come apple's customers are still the happiest, as a recent poll showed?
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/02/19/lates...mers-happiest/

Furthermore I've seen a vastly increasing number of Mac users, not a declining one. And the ones that switch seem to agree to that poll, I've not come across one that said "screw you, I'm going back to a PC".

And yes, there are MacBooks that fail, just like with every brand, but it's not such a number that should concern anybody. Plus the apple warranty is quite accommodating, if it's a typical failure (ie cracks in the body of the white MacBooks) they often repair it without charging you anything after the warranty period...

I'm not asking any of you to like any of Apple's products, I'm just asking for more objectivity. Heck, I don't like the MacBook Air, the new MacBook Pro or any of the iPods, so who cares? I even got a iPod Nano 8 GB lying here that I got for free and guess what? I'm not keeping it, I'm selling it. There are better MP3-players for less money out there.

@XSAlliN: Yes, Apple screws it customers over RAM-pricing. That's really stupid. Thank god you can upgrade it yourself without loosing the warranty.

Great, they are the happiest BUYERS. What does that tell us? A whole bunch of eager wannabes want to become part of the apple fashion community and go buy themselves laptops. Damn, I'm sick of seeing all these glowing apples in my lectures. I also see more and more macloving, treehugging, Jobs worshippers. But take a look at those people who own an apple computer. Do you seriously think that they know anything about computers or laptops besides how to turn one on? I doubt they even know the specs for their own new shiny apple goodness and that any of these people made an effort to get the best deal by comparing with other laptop brands. Most of these people don't even need a laptop but hey, if everyone has one then I should too, right?

Ok, end of my rant.

Oh, and let's make a survey for who are the smartest users.

[Russian]

Great, they are the happiest BUYERS. What does that tell us? A whole bunch of eager wannabes want to become part of the apple fashion community and go buy themselves laptops. Damn, I'm sick of seeing all these glowing apples in my lectures. I also see more and more macloving, treehugging, Jobs worshippers. But take a look at those people who own an apple computer. Do you seriously think that they know anything about computers or laptops besides how to turn one on? I doubt they even know the specs for their own new shiny apple goodness and that any of these people made an effort to get the best deal by comparing with other laptop brands. Most of these people don't even need a laptop but hey, if everyone has one then I should too, right?

Ok, end of my rant.

Oh, and let's make a survey for who are the smartest users.

To elaborate upon all this... ive been using macs since the mid 90's in school... at one point we actually ONLY had Mac labs and it was fricken hell. I swear. They would crash so often that our teacher would call out every 5 minutes to save. That was my first experience, with an iMac. Then... i also used a G4. Those were nice but i did not like the interface. Then... i used a G5 at my school for video editing. After that i moved upto a mac pro and the newer imacs that were TFTs not CRTs. They were slow and buggy as well. I found that the best mac products were always their towers and even those tended to drive me nuts... not that my PC doesnt. Its just i dont like the way things are in mac. They dont make as much logic as PC or Linux.

[FischOderAal]

1. Mac doesn't do this with just one product - it's every laptop they make, as well as anything else electronic.
2. To re-state what someone else has, Mac will tell you it's a "feature" and charge you more for it.

What does that have to do with my arguments? Nothing. Apple screws you many times, agreed, for instance the price or the adaptors you need for an external display. I've got nothing against objective critism.

Ignorance is bliss.

Who cares. They're happy, that's all that counts imho. Do I need to bring a car analogy? xD

The question is if only the Mac-users are the ones that are ignorant, seeing how many people rant Apple without comparing themselves or ever having used a mac. But yet many are stating Macs generally suck, are extremely overpriced (the good old Thinkpads weren't cheap as well...) and the users are dumb f*cks that praise Jobs as their savior.

Don't you see that these statements are prejudices and nothing better than those by the die-hard Mac-fans that state PCs often crash and are prone to viruses while Macs run hundreds of years without crashing and getting viruses?

[snip]

Are those who use "regular" Laptops that much better, as far as knowledge is concerned? I'm the only one in the house that knows how computer and laptops look on the inside and we're a four person, four laptops household. Interestingly, the laptops are two Thinkpads (teh gud 'ole wons), one Dell and my MacBook.

But yeah, many (most?) Apple users lack objectivity, but I'd say the more long-time PC-users switch the more objectivity we'll get. It's not that they all of the sudden turn into Jobs-loving, non critical mac-huggers.

Macs are trendy yes, but I'd rather take OS-X on a good old trusty Thinkpad tbh. As I bought my MacBook I barely knew anyone that had a MacBook, iMac etc and everyone kept shaking their heads and wondered how I could be that stupid. About a year later I know at least two more fellow students that own a MacBook as well (out of 70). At least here in germany the Mac-trend is quite young. iPods (which suck btw) were popular way before that...

A friend of mine works as a "computer scientist" (don't know if that's the right translation, he writes programs) and their Dells have been replaced with MacBook Pros. While they of course had some MacBooks that broke, it wasn't nearly as many as they had defective Dells. My friend had three Vostros that died (1 x mainboard ; 1 x GFX ; 1 x HDD).

This may sound like a Dell-rant, but that's not what I intend. I've seen great Dell notebooks lately (including the e4000-series) and if I'd buy a laptop with windows, Dell would perhaps be on the second place (after Lenovo's Thinkpads).

10 bucks says the person who rated this thread 1 star is a maclover.

I really wasn't it. I don't even know how to rate a thread.

[...]

What doesn't make so much sense? My experience was that things were often much easier than with Windows, on the other hands there are things where you wonder "What the?! Why doesn't this work?" especially when you're used to Windows.

My MacBook hasn't crashed yet *knocksonwood*, but so didn't my PC. When my PC crashed it was always due to overclocking.

[inCore]

I feel that mac users have a tendency to inform others why their mac is better and that windows users will instead attack the mac product, rather than commenting on their own windows pc.

I have a Dell laptop and I'm happy with it. Its like any other laptop once you reinstall windows vista twice, dual boot with ubuntu, remove vista completely, only have linux, remove ubuntu and then finally reinstall xp thrice.

What I'm trying to say is, there's always something worth crying about and seeing as this is the internet, let's get back to it boys and girls. Apple has an amazing marketing machine, has shady battery tactics but finally, everybody does something wrong.

[Junos]

I feel that mac users have a tendency to inform others why their mac is better and that windows users will instead attack the mac product, rather than commenting on their own windows pc.

I have a Dell laptop and I'm happy with it. Its like any other laptop once you reinstall windows vista twice, dual boot with ubuntu, remove vista completely, only have linux, remove ubuntu and then finally reinstall xp thrice.

What I'm trying to say is, there's always something worth crying about and seeing as this is the internet, let's get back to it boys and girls. Apple has an amazing marketing machine, has shady battery tactics but finally, everybody does something wrong.

Well said!

But on the other hand angry customers with their laptops broken won't do good pr (meaning less sales), so using removable batteries will be more profitable for Apple and better for customers.

Amazing marketing machine helps, but you can't sell "bad" products forever. Correcting this will be good for all parties.

[Serra]

What does that have to do with my arguments? Nothing. Apple screws you many times, agreed, for instance the price or the adaptors you need for an external display. I've got nothing against objective critism.

I thought I was answering the questions you posted pretty well, really. You want to argue that it's not fair to criticize Apple on general principles? Well, what about the fact that those general principles (in this example, non-removable batteries being sold as a "feature") are a feature of their specific products.

Who cares. They're happy, that's all that counts imho. Do I need to bring a car analogy? xD

Being happy with a purchase is good, but if they were informed by someone who told them they could have had exactly the same product (Mac-clone linux variant) on better hardware for less money, do you think they would still be happy? Well, the ones that don't believe you will be, but educate them up a little and it's another story. There's a difference between being actually happy and being ignorantly happy.



The question is if only the Mac-users are the ones that are ignorant, seeing how many people rant Apple without comparing themselves or ever having used a mac. But yet many are stating Macs generally suck, are extremely overpriced (the good old Thinkpads weren't cheap as well...) and the users are dumb f*cks that praise Jobs as their savior.

Don't you see that these statements are prejudices and nothing better than those by the die-hard Mac-fans that state PCs often crash and are prone to viruses while Macs run hundreds of years without crashing and getting viruses?

But yeah, many (most?) Apple users lack objectivity, but I'd say the more long-time PC-users switch the more objectivity we'll get. It's not that they all of the sudden turn into Jobs-loving, non critical mac-huggers.

Macs are trendy yes, but I'd rather take OS-X on a good old trusty Thinkpad tbh. As I bought my MacBook I barely knew anyone that had a MacBook, iMac etc and everyone kept shaking their heads and wondered how I could be that stupid. About a year later I know at least two more fellow students that own a MacBook as well (out of 70). At least here in germany the Mac-trend is quite young. iPods (which suck btw) were popular way before that...

A friend of mine works as a "computer scientist" (don't know if that's the right translation, he writes programs) and their Dells have been replaced with MacBook Pros. While they of course had some MacBooks that broke, it wasn't nearly as many as they had defective Dells. My friend had three Vostros that died (1 x mainboard ; 1 x GFX ; 1 x HDD).

Again - linux variant on a PC. Exact same product, save $1000. This is why it's so hard to argue FOR Mac (except for business use - customer service / support is obviously valuable in that scenario).

[B.E.E.F.]

WHO CARES.

If you don't like Apple, don't buy the products and tell your friends the same thing. No sales = no Apple.


The reason Apple went with the non-removable battery is so they can put in a bigger battery. The battery holding and locking mechanism takes up space.

Few people buy new batteries, when their laptop is old and the battery is dead, almost everyone will buy a new laptop instead of wasting money on a battery three times more expensive than the laptop.

[iddqd]

I was told I should have only had the battery in the unit when off direct power but the battery lasted almost 3yrs.

That's retarded, it's just some random bs the phone jockey came up with to cover his ass in hopes that you don't know wtf anyway.

[FischOderAal]

I thought I was answering the questions you posted pretty well, really. You want to argue that it's not fair to criticize Apple on general principles? Well, what about the fact that those general principles (in this example, non-removable batteries being sold as a "feature") are a feature of their specific products.

Well, you didn't answer to my statement, which was why things are not OK when Apple does them, but are OK when someone else does.

What you are doing is not criticising the product, but the behaviour of the company.

Being happy with a purchase is good, but if they were informed by someone who told them they could have had exactly the same product (Mac-clone linux variant) on better hardware for less money, do you think they would still be happy? Well, the ones that don't believe you will be, but educate them up a little and it's another story. There's a difference between being actually happy and being ignorantly happy.

Yet again, you're stating mac-users are uninformed, ignorant dumb f*cks who would've chosen differently if they knew better. In fact, you're wrong. Many know they're paying more than the hardware is worth, I did as well.

I'm a moderator in one of the biggest german websites about hardware with forum and print magazine and many of the moderators and editors own Macs. So we're dumb and don't know anything about hardware?

Again - linux variant on a PC. Exact same product, save $1000. This is why it's so hard to argue FOR Mac (except for business use - customer service / support is obviously valuable in that scenario).

It's not the same product, period. Please, please please please compare equal products. Interesting to see how you want to compare an OEM-build computer with a custom build one with a FREE OS.

Show me a Dell, HP, FSC computer with two xeons and Windows for 1000 USD less than the Mac Pro. Then you've got a valid point.

If you take the T5400 of Dell for instance, pack into it two 2,83 GHz Quadcores, 2 GB of RAM, a 320 GB HDD and you're at: 2800 USD (see attachment), so at the cost of a Mac Pro via apple.com (you can get it cheaper if you're student of course). But, you get a display for free (special offer), a NVS 290 instead of a 2600XT and 3 years of warranty. Is that worth 1000 USD?

I never doubted Macs are more expensive then the competitors, but the other OEMs aren't way much cheaper.

I really have to agree with InCore. If you don't like Apple, fine, I don't care. But stop telling mac-users that they are stupid, just because they paid more money for something than it would've cost from a different manufacturer. There are tons of analogies with cars, displays, consumer electronics and so on, where you pay for the looks and the name.
In fact, I can't stand the self-aggrandizement of Apple (the company) myself, but I enjoy using my MacBook. Why don't you think that this is possible?

[Chruschef]

i like macs.. rated thread a five..

non-removal batteries ftl. seriously, i'd like to carry multiple batteries for my iPhone in my backpack, i love the thing but the battery life sucks.

[Donnie27]

Well said!

But on the other hand angry customers with their laptops broken won't do good pr (meaning less sales), so using removable batteries will be more profitable for Apple and better for customers.

Amazing marketing machine helps, but you can't sell "bad" products forever. Correcting this will be good for all parties.

QFT! But suckers are born everyday

[johndoe]

In fact, I can't stand the self-aggrandizement of Apple (the company) myself, but I enjoy using my MacBook. Why don't you think that this is possible?

I can't stand apple and that's why I stopped using iTunes a long time ago. I got rid of everything that has to do with apple so I can bash apple. At least I'm not a hypocrite.

Oh, and anyone is stupid if they buy something just for looks. I wish I could afford to throw my money away like that. But even I could, I would save it and spend it on more reasonable things.