Test Report: XSPC RX120

[skinnee]

And is there anybody who has tested the Triple RX already against TFC or TC??? Although there are big issues regarding painting and fan´s fixing??? Skinnee?

The triples are making there way to the bench, I had some items in line before the triple tests.

[JackOfAll]

The RS360 is theoretically better, but in practice the swifty beats it. Probably 1c difference

All things being equal, (same ambient), I was 2-3C better with the MCR320 over the RS360. But the paint finish on the XSPC was not very good. Chipped off in two places and scraped, straight from the box. The construction was poor, (tank end - where the sides wrap over), causing one of the fan mount holes to be 2mm away from where it should be. As they use 4mm bolts, not enough wiggle to get a fit, so I had to start filing the fan mounting holes to get a fan on there. So, in my experience, (and even factoring in the fact that the XSPC is cheaper), I have to say that I've not been impressed with XSPC rads. Very similar experience with the RS240. I won't be purchasing any more XSPC rads.

[Exavier]

mine arrives tomorrow or next - I hope to find that somehow mine won't suffer the same problems as you guys have

[lyl]

mine arrives tomorrow or next - I hope to find that somehow mine won't suffer the same problems as you guys have

Will be interesting to see if the batches sold in UK have same issues....

[ownage]

All things being equal, (same ambient), I was 2-3C better with the MCR320 over the RS360. But the paint finish on the XSPC was not very good. Chipped off in two places and scraped, straight from the box. The construction was poor, (tank end - where the sides wrap over), causing one of the fan mount holes to be 2mm away from where it should be. As they use 4mm bolts, not enough wiggle to get a fit, so I had to start filing the fan mounting holes to get a fan on there. So, in my experience, (and even factoring in the fact that the XSPC is cheaper), I have to say that I've not been impressed with XSPC rads. Very similar experience with the RS240. I won't be purchasing any more XSPC rads.

Then I must have been lucky with the quality of my RS360.

[Migi06]

lol. i doubt that there are QC problems at TC or TFC.
Thats why these rads are cheap. QC bad. That makes the price difference.
Endcustomer sometimes dont care about the QC, but every Dealer has to consider this. The Returning Goods can break the dealer's neck and reliability.

You are really funny TFC fanboy.

Then Swiftech, Thermochills and Feser rads were also cheap and bad. They all did have own problems at start.
Swiftech did have bad paint quality and so did every others. Some Thermochills got leakage problems.. Fesers bent more easy than others. So are they cheap and bad? Are they so much better than XSPC wich have bad early batch? If you ask me they arent. Every company got more problems at early batches than later ones and all "first one byers" should know that.

If this is only early batch problem then it's just normal. Its stupid to say company is bad for that. Why the XSPC products are bad? XSPC Delta v3 chipset(universal wich includes GPUs) and cpu block are awesome for the price, XSPC RS rads are pretty good for the price (not everyone lives on USA), DDC tops are top performers and cheap. Their water blocks got acrylic problems and it got solved with acetal.

Every products need time to evolve. It will evolve when it released and get feedback for it(yeah same can do with more testing, but usually it need too much time). Like Swiftech Apogee CPU block did evolve many times.

I thought that XSPC was good and new company wich do price/performance products and not premium like TFC(They are pricey and some products are 10 times pricier than should be..It still didn't won performance crown from PAs)

Just look Koolance company they did listen feedbacks and improved.

And mcoffey I know it sucks and I´m sorry for you. I still hope you dont judge company too much and I really hope it was first batch problem..

I´m new one in watercooling but still this was too odd to me.. This reminds me of the "Have aesthetics overridden performance?" thread cos PA got own problems, but it was the best. Still its much more reasonable to send it back and replace or change to other product.
And sorry my bad english.

[pika198]

You are really funny TFC fanboy.

Then Swiftech, Thermochills and Feser rads were also cheap and bad. They all did have own problems at start.
Swiftech did have bad paint quality and so did every others. Some Thermochills got leakage problems.. Fesers bent more easy than others. So are they cheap and bad? Are they so much better than XSPC wich have bad early batch? If you ask me they arent. Every company got more problems at early batches than later ones and all "first one byers" should know that.

If this is only early batch problem then it's just normal. Its stupid to say company is bad for that. Why the XSPC products are bad? XSPC Delta v3 chipset(universal wich includes GPUs) and cpu block are awesome for the price, XSPC RS rads are pretty good for the price (not everyone lives on USA), DDC tops are top performers and cheap. Their water blocks got acrylic problems and it got solved with acetal.

Every products need time to evolve. It will evolve when it released and get feedback for it(yeah same can do with more testing, but usually it need too much time). Like Swiftech Apogee CPU block did evolve many times.

I thought that XSPC was good and new company wich do price/performance products and not premium like TFC(They are pricey and some products are 10 times pricier than should be..It still didn't won performance crown from PAs)

Just look Koolance company they did listen feedbacks and improved.

And mcoffey I know it sucks and I´m sorry for you. I still hope you dont judge company too much and I really hope it was first batch problem..

I´m new one in watercooling but still this was too odd to me.. This reminds me of the "Have aesthetics overridden performance?" thread cos PA got own problems, but it was the best. Still its much more reasonable to send it back and replace or change to other product.
And sorry my bad english.

well said

[Exavier]

well mine arrived and none of the problems above are evident BUT I have paint chipping and dents all over the rad...so I'm gonna email XSPC for a hopeful RMA, not that they'll even respond to me..

[Exavier]

waterlogged raises a subtle hint which I'm interested to see the outcome of..

[JackOfAll]

well mine arrived and none of the problems above are evident BUT I have paint chipping and dents all over the rad...so I'm gonna email XSPC for a hopeful RMA, not that they'll even respond to me..

Just like the RS360 I purchased recently!

Anyway, that's a shame. QC is lacking, regardless of "teething" problems, first production run, etc. etc.

Looking at the pricing of the RX360 today (£71.99 @ watercoolinguk), which I'm sure is 10-15 pounds more than was originally suggested in another thread, and comparing that to the Xchanger 360 (£76.99 @ watercoolinguk). Hmmm. The TFC is overpriced - sure. Less money wasted on packaging and fancy inserts and a lower price would be appreciated. But the package does include 3 silcone fan gaskets. I'm assuming that the XSPC uses their usual "quality" packaging and provides no extras. The RX360 needs to blow the XChanger 360 away on performance being priced that close to it!

<tongue_in_cheek>Are XSPC offering a good value product or jumping on the Feser price gouging bandwagon?</tongue_in_cheek>

[anzial]

if you are in UK, why do you bother with TFC and XSPC? Get TC PA120.3 and call it a day, it's cheaper than the other two

[Migi06]

Yes, you are from norway. is there anything to cool the pc with? rofl.

Wrong and Did I offend you? Sorry if I did

i think you have enough ice to cool your pc. so please dont use water.

I´m getting water cooling stuff for performance and silence, because TRUE with two yateloons at 600rpm wasnt good enaugh on my Q6600

and yes i am still a TC fanboy, because their rads were the pioneers.

Nothing wrong to be fanboy but watching your earlier comments stated that you like very much TFC products. Its good to have premium and price/performance companies cos this will reduce the prices. For me performance and price comes first, but some people like premiun because they usually got better quality.

[Jupiler]

I cleaned up some posts on this page.

Let's stick to the facts and leave the fanboyism for what it is.
Skinnee did a great test on this rad and I'm sure other members (including me) would like to see results from guys who recently bought (or are planning to buy) one of the RX series rads.

It would be a shame if a good thread like this goes to hell, like so many good threads have in the past.

So, stay on topic, play it nice and keep it civilized.

Thanks.

[JackOfAll]

if you are in UK, why do you bother with TFC and XSPC? Get TC PA120.3 and call it a day, it's cheaper than the other two

You'd think that being made in the UK, you'd be able to buy them in the UK? If only it was that easy. ;-)

I would've bought one a couple of weeks ago instead of another TFC, but for the fact it's never in stock. (Either that, or I'm looking in the wrong places.)

Current (as of 5 mins ago) UK retailer stock levels of PA120.3 ....

Chilled PC - Out of stock
WatercoolingUK - Out of stock
The Cooling Shop - Out of stock
C and C Central - Out of stock
Aqua PC's - Out of stock

[anzial]

You'd think that being made in the UK, you'd be able to buy them in the UK? If only it was that easy. ;-)

I would've bought one a couple of weeks ago instead of another TFC, but for the fact it's never in stock. (Either that, or I'm looking in the wrong places.)

Current (as of 5 mins ago) UK retailer stock levels of PA120.3 ....

Chilled PC - Out of stock
WatercoolingUK - Out of stock
The Cooling Shop - Out of stock
C and C Central - Out of stock
Aqua PC's - Out of stock

Well, at least you can enjoy lower prices on TC PAs compared to the rest of the world

That said, I was interested in getting XSPC RX360 but came accross an $80 PA120.3 compared to $99 for RX360... well, I chose PA. I hope won't regret it once performance numbers for RX360 become known

[Waterlogged]

You'd think that being made in the UK, you'd be able to buy them in the UK? If only it was that easy. ;-)

I would've bought one a couple of weeks ago instead of another TFC, but for the fact it's never in stock. (Either that, or I'm looking in the wrong places.)

Current (as of 5 mins ago) UK retailer stock levels of PA120.3 ....

Chilled PC - Out of stock
WatercoolingUK - Out of stock
The Cooling Shop - Out of stock
C and C Central - Out of stock
Aqua PC's - Out of stock

You could always try direct or semi-direct

[MpG]

Sigh. Wasn't going to be using my RX360 for a little, but seeing this thread I re-opened the box and put my mic up to the fan holes. 105mm down the length of the rad, no problems. But just over 106mm across... problem. Testing it out on a fan, I can mount a fan on one side of the rad, but not the other without bending the rad or slotting the fan holes. Or I can partially tighten down all four corners, but not so much that there isn't an air gap all around the base of the fan. Definitely something wrong with the first batch. And worst of all, any RMA-ing for me will involve cross-border shipping.

[jab-tech]

I talked to XSPC about the holes and they said its due to the painting/Baking process, apparently the side plate got warped while baking.. The problem is made worse due to using M4 screws which left no margin for error or warping.

Not all the rads were affected, the 240 and 120 shouldn't be affected by this at all as they are much harder to warp.. Second batch is inbound, guess we'll see what happens, I've been told that all problems have been fixed but I won't be shipping any until I mount fans to one and inspect paint.

[warriorpoet]

I talked to XSPC about the holes and they said its due to the painting/Baking process, apparently the side plate got warped while baking.. The problem is made worse due to using M4 screws which left no margin for error or warping.

Not all the rads were affected, the 240 and 120 shouldn't be affected by this at all as they are much harder to warp.. Second batch is inbound, guess we'll see what happens, I've been told that all problems have been fixed but I won't be shipping any until I mount fans to one and inspect paint.

Good man.

[XS_RoB]

Yep - Again - Thanks John to your commitment to the scene!

90% of my purchases are from Jab-Tech = This is why!

[JackOfAll]

You could always try direct or semi-direct

Ta. I didn't know TC sold direct!

[Webby]

To get the thread back to the testing that Skinnee has carried out Rather than the woes of XSPC's QC and where to buy a TC rad from

Skinnee, first great test much appreciated (I can't remember if I posted a thanks before or not so here it is possibly again ) a couple of questions and potential observations.

1. The Percentage air used calculation how was this value calculated? From the numbers you present I cant work it out to get the same as you, I was taking the difference in air in to water out to be maximum capacity and air out - air in to be the fraction of the air capacity used so for the first set of data 1008rpm,

Air In = 24.01°C, Air Out = 36.10°C and Water Out = 43.37°C

Water Out - Air In = 19.36°C
Air Out - Air In = 12.09°C

So (12.09 / 19.36) x 100 = 62.45%

You report 63.64% so since I guess your table is generated by a spreadsheet you must be doing a different sum care to share? My only guess is you use Water In temp for the max instead of Water Out (which incidentally would be what I would do if it was me and I had the data) but that should lower the percentage not increase it...

2. On the subject of Water In temps it would be useful to know what this value was as a check against energy dissipated by the radiator, for example in Martin's test of the MCR220 (http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Swifte...20-Review.html) when using 1000rpm fans the drop in water temperature over the rad is 0.43°C, flowrate was 1.5gpm, and the water temperature was ~40°C (need this for a density calculation).

To calculate the watts dissipated the following equation must be solved,

KiloWatts Dissipated (kJ/s) = Mass Flowrate (kg/s) * Specific Heat (kJ/kg.K) * Temp. Change (K)

So for Martin's scenario,

Mass Flowrate = 1.5 gpm = 5.68 L/m = 0.095 L/s = 0.094 kg/s (Density @ 40°C = 992 kg/m³)
Specific Heat = 4.1813 kJ/kg.K
Temp. Change = 0.43 K

Kilowatts = 0.094*4.1813*0.43 = 0.169 kW = 169W

Martin states that the applied heat load is 302W for that much energy to have been dissipated a temp difference of 0.77 K would be required.

When the fan speed is increased to 3000rpm the temp difference rises to 0.61°C this equates to a heat dissipated of 240W much closer to the applied value of 300W.

I assume that this is an artefact of heat loss from the reservoir, tubing and other equipment in the loop which is amplified as the water temperature in the loop increases, of course what it does mean is that the C/W values are off as the rad is actually not dissipating as much energy as was assumed.

Without Water In temps for your tests I can not compare the different fan speeds to see if your testing follows the same trend, I also have not yet completed my thinking on the ramifications for what it means in terms of calculating C/W we will know how much heat was actually dissipated by the radiator but this is effected by the heat loss in the rest of the loop.

Perhaps insulating all tubing, reservoirs etc would make for a more controlled system in terms of radiator performance.

Anyway good testing hope to see some Water Temp In data so that we can see if the radiator was really dissipating 300W at each fan speed. Or of course a reason why my thinking is flawed.

[skinnee]

To get the thread back to the testing that Skinnee has carried out Rather than the woes of XSPC's QC and where to buy a TC rad from

Skinnee, first great test much appreciated (I can't remember if I posted a thanks before or not so here it is possibly again ) a couple of questions and potential observations.

1. The Percentage air used calculation how was this value calculated? From the numbers you present I cant work it out to get the same as you, I was taking the difference in air in to water out to be maximum capacity and air out - air in to be the fraction of the air capacity used so for the first set of data 1008rpm,

Air In = 24.01°C, Air Out = 36.10°C and Water Out = 43.37°C

Water Out - Air In = 19.36°C
Air Out - Air In = 12.09°C

So (12.09 / 19.36) x 100 = 62.45%

You report 63.64% so since I guess your table is generated by a spreadsheet you must be doing a different sum care to share? My only guess is you use Water In temp for the max instead of Water Out (which incidentally would be what I would do if it was me and I had the data) but that should lower the percentage not increase it...

You have the calculation right, and when I go into Excel and work the numbers, you're right. I completely goofed on the calculation, I chose the the cell for Air Out Sensor 1 rather than the average for both Air Out Sensors.

Thank you for pointing this out, I will update the calc's and charts as well as my radiator template so I don't make this mistake again.

On this, Excel's rounding makes me , 62.449 is the raw number calc to three decimals, but since Excel uses the raw numbers from the cells I point it at in the forumla, the result is 62.4697%

2. On the subject of Water In temps it would be useful to know what this value was as a check against energy dissipated by the radiator, for example in Martin's test of the MCR220 (http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Swifte...20-Review.html) when using 1000rpm fans the drop in water temperature over the rad is 0.43°C, flowrate was 1.5gpm, and the water temperature was ~40°C (need this for a density calculation).

To calculate the watts dissipated the following equation must be solved,

KiloWatts Dissipated (kJ/s) = Mass Flowrate (kg/s) * Specific Heat (kJ/kg.K) * Temp. Change (K)

So for Martin's scenario,

Mass Flowrate = 1.5 gpm = 5.68 L/m = 0.095 L/s = 0.094 kg/s (Density @ 40°C = 992 kg/m³)
Specific Heat = 4.1813 kJ/kg.K
Temp. Change = 0.43 K

Kilowatts = 0.094*4.1813*0.43 = 0.169 kW = 169W

Martin states that the applied heat load is 302W for that much energy to have been dissipated a temp difference of 0.77 K would be required.

When the fan speed is increased to 3000rpm the temp difference rises to 0.61°C this equates to a heat dissipated of 240W much closer to the applied value of 300W.

I assume that this is an artefact of heat loss from the reservoir, tubing and other equipment in the loop which is amplified as the water temperature in the loop increases, of course what it does mean is that the C/W values are off as the rad is actually not dissipating as much energy as was assumed.

Without Water In temps for your tests I can not compare the different fan speeds to see if your testing follows the same trend, I also have not yet completed my thinking on the ramifications for what it means in terms of calculating C/W we will know how much heat was actually dissipated by the radiator but this is effected by the heat loss in the rest of the loop.

Perhaps insulating all tubing, reservoirs etc would make for a more controlled system in terms of radiator performance.

I will add the Water In temps to the standard chart I use when posting the test results. I do want to point out that I only use one sensor for Water In, so we do not get the luxury of sensor averaging for water in, which I feel is needed when using the digital sensors just due to their accuracy. Basically, I need to order more sensors to accurately report Water In.

With that said, here are the Water In temps I captured on Water In Sensor 1and averaged acrossed the entire test period (the same as all other sensors)

1000RPM - 43.99
1400RPM - 39.20
1800RPM - 38.10
2300RPM - 35.39
2800RPM - 33.86

Anyway good testing hope to see some Water Temp In data so that we can see if the radiator was really dissipating 300W at each fan speed. Or of course a reason why my thinking is flawed.

Thanks...even though I made some mistakes in my calc's and data presentation. But thank you for doing the work to point them out, but I am a bit embarassed that I made that mistake. However, I appreciate you pointing it out so I can fix it and make sure it does not happen again.

I will be updating the charts tonight/tomorrow, the charts will automatically update on the first page since the images are hosted by me and not attachments. I will add a post when I have the charts updated though.

Again, thanks Webby! I appreciate the additional work you did to check over the data. You're helping me immensly to better the presentation and accuracy of information!

[Webby]

Skinnee,

Only to happy to help I can't do testing of my own, no space or money for it at the moment but I can happily spend time looking through things and trying to make sense of them if I find something which doesn't make sense to me or I cant work something out then I will ask questions that is just the way I am

Just pushed the numbers through my spreadsheet for calculating watts dissipated,

Fanspeed - Water Temp Difference - Watts Dissipated
1000rpm - 0.62°C - 243W
1400rpm - 0.76°C - 298W
1800rpm - 0.81°C - 318W
2300rpm - 0.80°C - 315W
2800rpm - 0.81°C - 319W

Watts dissipated alters slightly with the same temperature difference due to the slight change in density.

Anyway we can see that as you expected a single temperature sensor reading is not enough to achieve the accuracy we need for this calculation, with the error for the sensors that you are using +- 0.2°C measuring the differences we are looking at here in water temps is quite difficult obviously having more sensors will improve the confidence in the readings.

With the actual numbers aside what I can take away from the test is that at low fan speeds <1400rpm the system could probably do with being insulated although your not loosing nearly as much as Martin did through your res and tubing, perhaps with a lower power source 150W for a single rad this would not be an issue as much guess we will have to wait and see what your 360mm rad tests show at the higher speeds it would be fairly safe to assume that the majority of the heat is removed via the radiator.

Oh final point you are using straight distilled water for these tests, yes? This will obviously effect specific heat but guessing you would have mentioned if you were using something else.

[skinnee]

Original post updated with proper Air Capacity Used calculations (thanks Webby!) and Pressure Drop info and charts.