AMD Shanghai/Deneb Review Thread

[Zucker2k]

snip.

Dont get me wrong... i love Phenom II but i dont like "Zucker2k"

Awww, you're breaking my heart. Can we keep personal feelings out of this thread? Anyway, I'm curious; why don't you like me?

[roofsniper]

snip.
Awww, you're breaking my heart. Can we keep personal feelings out of this thread? Anyway, I'm curious; why don't you like me?

might be because the thread topic is amd shanghai/deneb review thread not all out bash amd and everyone that runs amd without any logical thinking.

[Calmatory]

might be because the thread topic is amd shanghai/deneb review thread not all out bash amd and everyone that runs amd without any logical thinking.

Reminder: AMD(or Intel) section does not(or at least should not!) mean "Here AMD(or Intel) can suck as much as possible and get owned by Intel(or AMD) as much as possible without anyone disturbing and laughing at it!".

(Waiting for someone to misunderstand this post as flamebait and as AMD bashing! )

[iocedmyself]

ah didn't notice ghostbuster, but still not drastic difference in scores on I7 to justify the price, and still have difference of ddr3.

Yes roofsniper, Denebs were redesigned to diminish the internal hotspots allowing for greater heat tolerance.

Lastviking i find it hard to blieve that anyone has been able to push an i7, let alone the 2.66ghz 920 flavor to 4.6 on air unless someone has their box sitting outside in sub zero temps when 3.6-3.8ghz is already doing 80-90c. especially when LN2 record is 5.5ghz. Btw you will have to do better then 4.8 to beat me, that's why i said "offical world record" Just not posting till i can get it on an FX board and at least prime or SuperPi stable.

Yes intel has a 6core penryn....which really is a different thing then the i7

[roofsniper]

Reminder: AMD(or Intel) section does not(or at least should not!) mean "Here AMD(or Intel) can suck as much as possible and get owned by Intel(or AMD) as much as possible without anyone disturbing and laughing at it!".

(Waiting for someone to misunderstand this post as flamebait and as AMD bashing! )

yea i understand but have you read his past posts? they make absolutely no sense and most of the time have nothing to do with the topic. i can't even recall if he has ever said anything positive about amd. most people aren't trolls but there are a handful that come here just to troll.

[roofsniper]

Denebs were redesigned to diminish the internal hotspots allowing for greater heat tolerance.

yea i heard that the balanced the chip out a lot more so there aren't spots that get really hot and some that stay cool so it would allow for a higher overclock.

[gallag]

i7 can oc up to crazy clocks on air http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...splay.php?f=56 just look in the overclocking section, And does nobody think it might be possible that the temp probes in phenom2 might not be so good? Some crazy low temps being reported considering the volts and clocks and power used.

[roofsniper]

i7 can oc up to crazy clocks on air http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...splay.php?f=56 just look in the overclocking section, And does nobody think it might be possible that the temp probes in phenom2 might not be so good? Some crazy low temps being reported considering the volts and clocks and power used.

considering that they rebalanced the chip out and spread the heat around more plus its 45nm it might actually get lower temps. plus i know the new am3 one uses a different type of sensor. it could be possible that the temps are a little buggy right now but i wouldn't count on it. plus phenom II hasn't even been released yet and many are under nda after it is out for awhile i bet you we will be seeing crazy overclocks from many people. i7 has already been out for awhile.

[gallag]

I just don't get how it can use more volts and power but still be far cooler.

[sundancerx]

more volts but not power i think, comparing to i7.

[roofsniper]

I just don't get how it can use more volts and power but still be far cooler.

it is but you can't really compare volts from chip to chip. i was expecting it to use less volts but as we can see it uses more and stays cooler. maybe its drawing less amps idk. but you can't really use the volts to compare how much power/heat it is consuming to different architectures.

[Lastviking]

ah didn't notice ghostbuster, but still not drastic difference in scores on I7 to justify the price, and still have difference of ddr3.

Yes roofsniper, Denebs were redesigned to diminish the internal hotspots allowing for greater heat tolerance.

Lastviking i find it hard to blieve that anyone has been able to push an i7, let alone the 2.66ghz 920 flavor to 4.6 on air unless someone has their box sitting outside in sub zero temps when 3.6-3.8ghz is already doing 80-90c. especially when LN2 record is 5.5ghz. Btw you will have to do better then 4.8 to beat me, that's why i said "offical world record" Just not posting till i can get it on an FX board and at least prime or SuperPi stable.

Yes intel has a 6core penryn....which really is a different thing then the i7

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=212095
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=212762
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=212329

All over 4500mhz on air... yes one with litle help from outside but that one is not one of the best overclockers also , trust me. But he is learning.

I dont say Ci7 920 is the one to get... i´m only showing threads from it , and clocks. I dont like the heat that the Ci7 make...


Zucker2k: i think someone have pointed out the reason already for me

[Final8ty]

Some more Benches
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=311128

[accord99]

more volts but not power i think, comparing to i7.

At stock perhaps, but the updated Hwbox review suggests Phenom II's power usage grows at a incredible rate when overclocked, to a point where it uses more power than an equally clocked i7 at 3.7GHz.

This would explain why AMD couldn't break 4GHz on air cooling.

[TL1000S]

I just don't get how it can use more volts and power but still be far cooler.

By interpreting elecrical values (resistance) to a numeric value that pleases the user.
This is the normal way to get coretemps 10-20 degrees (Celsius) below ambient.

[Uncle Jimbo]

At stock perhaps, but the updated Hwbox review suggests Phenom II's power usage grows at a incredible rate when overclocked, to a point where it uses more power than an equally clocked i7 at 3.7GHz.

This would explain why AMD couldn't break 4GHz on air cooling.

original hwbox numbers were all very strange - not sure they have any idea what they are doing.

Intel added thermal envelope protection to i7 because of concern about local hot spots and all the big OC turn it off, because otherwise it shuts the chip down on 4 cores at around 3.5G. Intel also allows full parking of 2 cores to let the other 2 use the thermal capacity, which gives more headroom. The thermal envelope envelope is targeted at 130W.

Looking at screen shots here and on other forums, there seems to be no rapid increase in power on phenom II, at least up to about 4.2G clocks.

It is not reasonable to compare different architectures based on core voltage - power draw with voltage differs even among members of the same family. The best way is to instrument the VRM but that is not easily done. A method that is nearly as good is to use heat rise of a known heat sink. If you have a .1 C/W sink and show a 10C rise, that is a pretty good indicator that the load is 100W. I have several sinks with embedded thermistors at the base. With a controlled ambient air supply that method can be pretty accurate.

Until retail phenom II parts are available, I won't be able to test any by myself, but I will characterize one as soon as I can get it. I am expecting a significantly lower power envelope than i7.

Also, as several posters have pointed out, internal temps are higher than the heatsink contact, often 10C or more. Lower power levels reduce those hot spots - one of the reasons laptop CPUs may run 70C or 80C in 'normal' use. Still, I'm a lot happier with the measured heatsink interface at 50C or less.

[sundancerx]

By interpreting elecrical values (resistance) to a numeric value that pleases the user.
This is the normal way to get coretemps 10-20 degrees (Celsius) below ambient.

how many times its been pointed out power=!voltage.
P (watts) = E(voltage) x I(current)
even if you have more voltage but significantly lesser current, power still lower.

[roofsniper]

At stock perhaps, but the updated Hwbox review suggests Phenom II's power usage grows at a incredible rate when overclocked, to a point where it uses more power than an equally clocked i7 at 3.7GHz.

This would explain why AMD couldn't break 4GHz on air cooling.

research before posting. i believe the first leak ever about phenom II was when coolaler reached 4ghz on air and we have seen many others at 4.5ghz on air too. also if you would look at the chips of many people clocked here you would see that even at 3.7ghz it still stays pretty cool. look at all the screens charged and honda guy have posted. many people are reaching 3.5, 3.6ghz on stock volts too so it really isn't that power hungry. i have no clue where hwbox got all of their numbers from but the power consumption seems really far off compared to every other screen we have seen for phenom II so far.

[sundancerx]

At stock perhaps, but the updated Hwbox review suggests Phenom II's power usage grows at a incredible rate when overclocked, to a point where it uses more power than an equally clocked i7 at 3.7GHz.

This would explain why AMD couldn't break 4GHz on air cooling.

i think its premature to say ph2 can not break 4 ghz on air cooling. the same can be said about its power consumption when o/clock. not enough reviews to compare results.

[Caveman787]

Umm I have nott seen these 4.5ghz on air for phenom II

If you can link to them that'd be nice because so far the highest I've seen on air is 4.2ghz.

[Zucker2k]

research before posting. i believe the first leak ever about phenom II was when coolaler reached 4ghz on air and we have seen many others at 4.5ghz on air too. also if you would look at the chips of many people clocked here you would see that even at 3.7ghz it still stays pretty cool. look at all the screens charged and honda guy have posted. many people are reaching 3.5, 3.6ghz on stock volts too so it really isn't that power hungry. i have no clue where hwbox got all of their numbers from but the power consumption seems really far off compared to every other screen we have seen for phenom II so far.

Stop showing your ignorance! My God, how many times have you posted on this page alone! No two chips are the same. In any case, what was Coolaler's chip? ES. Maybe that's all you need to know. Man, slow down!

[sundancerx]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=212095
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=212762
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=212329

All over 4500mhz on air... yes one with litle help from outside but that one is not one of the best overclockers also , trust me. But he is learning.

I dont say Ci7 920 is the one to get... i´m only showing threads from it , and clocks. I dont like the heat that the Ci7 make...


Zucker2k: i think someone have pointed out the reason already for me

i think that guy should put it on youtube. with i7 users hitting 80c+ on 3.7-3.8ghz i7, thats just hard to believe. well i maybe wrong, so...

[roofsniper]

Stop showing your ignorance! My God, how many times have you posted on this page alone! No two chips are the same. In any case, what was Coolaler's chip? ES. Maybe that's all you need to know. Man, slow down!

how am i showing my ignorance? im just saying about things that are completely obvious that everyone knows about. i think everyone knows about the coolaler on 4ghz and if its ignorant that im trying to point this out then i believe you don't know what the definition of ignorance is. and what do my posts have to do with anything? each time its something different its not like im double posting. your posts all look the same to me. and whats wrong with an ES? im just saying thats the first thing we saw there have been many that have done this without an ES. but maybe you just aren't "informed" about this.

[Raiderman]

Stop showing your ignorance! My God, how many times have you posted on this page alone! No two chips are the same. In any case, what was Coolaler's chip? ES. Maybe that's all you need to know. Man, slow down!

Name calling is not the way to get a point accross. Slow down, take a deep breath, it usually helps before inserting a foot.

[informal]

Name calling is not the way to get a point accross. Slow down, take a deep breath, it usually helps before inserting a foot.

Talking to him is like talking to a wall,no effect.But it's good you tried,maybe it works this time

As for Deneb's power draw,I'm on the same page as iocedmyself,Uncle Jimbo and roofsniper. Deneb should draw noticeably less power at stock and still less power OCed/overvolted than i7 system.I'd expect overall that it will be equal/lower than Yorkfield systems if Deneb is paired with newest 790GX boards.