Phenom II info leaks out, AMD hints at something

[Hornet331]

I know discussed this earlier, but does anyone have any conformation if phenom II OC's will be hindered by 64-bit OS's?

I really hope not. I'm not going back to 32-bit anything.

noone knows right now, need to wait till jan. (dec.) for info on that.

[Helmore]

I know discussed this earlier, but does anyone have any conformation if phenom II OC's will be hindered by 64-bit OS's?

I really hope not. I'm not going back to 32-bit anything.

To be honest with you, I have never really heard of some kind of hindrance in OC capability when using a 64-bit OS. Maybe I'm not keeping up enough to even know about it....
Some have said on this thread (or was it the one in the AMD section?) that their results varied, they have even had a higher stable overclock on a 64 bit OS.

[Glow9]

I really hope not. I'm not going back to 32-bit anything.

LOL YES hahaha

[Rammsteiner]

That can be said about all benchmarks. But check this out? I've NEVER been a proponent or fan of SuperPi=P You see whatever you want to see or not. No need to roll you eyes LOL! You are one of the people you seem to not see and that my friend is absolutely you're biggest problem.

You ate those candies which make you turn my argument the other way around?

Do you really think I even care about any FM benchmarks? Any SuperPI benchmarks? No matter AMD is being better at it or not? I at most post a few results to make other people happy. For me personally both results tell me jack , it's only an eventual reason to try and improve the score, whatever that score is actually telling me in the first place.

And actually, the last part of your argument is really stupid since Im very relative in making decisions. I see everything, and if I had an argument which was basicly wrong, I admit I was wrong, no more and no less. Also you might want to take a better look at my sig, since in this case, your argument is like... 100% clueless.

Also;

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

To be honest with you, I have never really heard of some kind of hindrance in OC capability when using a 64-bit OS. Maybe I'm not keeping up enough to even know about it....
Some have said on this thread (or was it the one in the AMD section?) that their results varied, they have even had a higher stable overclock on a 64 bit OS.

I remember a lot of stuff on the AMD subsection showing phenom clocks and how 64-bit OS's had enough hindrance that people stuck w/ xp b/c it made that much of a difference. That's one reason I am glad I went with a q6600. I'm not a fan boy, just looking for whats best now.

Link to the thread about higher OC in 64 bit?

If the price / performance ratio is awesome for the new AMD chips, I'll pick one up. For most of the things I do, the cost of intel is not needed (htpc, folding@home w/ gpus, etc) and thats why this might be up my alley.

[Helmore]

I remember a lot of stuff on the AMD subsection showing phenom clocks and how 64-bit OS's had enough hindrance that people stuck w/ xp b/c it made that much of a difference. That's one reason I am glad I went with a q6600. I'm not a fan boy, just looking for whats best now.

Link to the thread about higher OC in 64 bit?

If the price / performance ratio is awesome for the new AMD chips, I'll pick one up. For most of the things I do, the cost of intel is not needed (htpc, folding@home w/ gpus, etc) and thats why this might be up my alley.

I was talking about this post:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=90
It's in this thread, as I said post.
It seems that results apparently vary from person to person, although you can hardly draw any conclusion from the data there is on this subject.


Off-topic: Darn man, my 's' key does not want to cooperate and I usually have to press it twice or very firmly. Very annoying. Anyone recommending a good keyboard? I like the kind of typing experience my ThinkPad provides, but then in a decent desktop keyboard....

[Sparky]

The way I see it, if your CPU isn't stable in a 64 bit OS but appears to be in a 32 bit OS it isn't truely 100% stable

[Chad Boga]

Hahaha, clueless

Yes, yes you are.

[Chad Boga]

Chad Boga, my post is this one:

Yes, sooooo much disrespect.

Wow, that was it???

Seems like an overreaction by the good Brother.

[Apokalipse]

The way I see it, if your CPU isn't stable in a 64 bit OS but appears to be in a 32 bit OS it isn't truely 100% stable

I'm not sure exactly how 32-bit code is executed compared to 64-bit code (whether there's a different pipeline or something for 64-bit code, or is just using half the pipeline for 32-bit code or something), but if there's a section of the CPU not being used at all when only 32-bit code is running, and that's stable with a certain overclock, then I would consider it 100% stable for what you're using it for.

Yes, yes you are.

That's so mature and witty.
I think I used that kind of response in primary school.

Wow, that was it???

Seems like an overreaction by the good Brother.

An overreaction to respond to false or misleading claims?

[Chad Boga]

That's so mature and witty.

It was better than what I was responding to.

I think I used that kind of response in primary school.

I'm sure you will continue to use that kind of response once you get out of primary school too.

An overreaction to respond to false or misleading claims?

An overreaction as there was nothing unreasonable in STaRGaZeR's post.

[vinister]

It doesn't really work like that. There is no 'section' that gets shut down when you run a 32 bit OS. It has to do with how the actual data is arranged into words of 32 or 64 bits in length. Basically, going 64 bit allows your computer to crunch much bigger numbers than before.

thats why 64 bit can use more ram. There is no primary physical limitation to the ram with 32 bits, it can be there, but the computer cannot assign an address that big, it just runs out of numbers. Kind of like when your area code runs out of phone numbers, you just cant do it, you need more digits. Eventually we will have to move to 128 bit when we demand several terabytes of ram.

You remember when it was 16 bit, the file name length was restricted? Then when we all upgraded to windows95, half our filenames were truncated because they were 16 bit relics.

So 64 bits OS lets your hardware deal with larger values, basically allowing it to do more complex math. More complex = more susceptible to errors.

If you're not 64 bit stable, but your hardware supports 64 bit, then you are NOT STABLE.

[wiak]

i7 is out for me, well i will need a new mb that is 358 usd, new i7 920 cpu is 358 usd, and memory is 279 usd (4GB)

Core i7 358 usd
Gigabyte GA-X58-UD5 358 usd
OCZ DDR3-1600 Platinum EB XTC 4 GB (2 x 2048) 279 usd
Total: 995 usd

here is my estamate how much deneb will cost
AMD Phenom II 940 230 usd
790FX or 790GX chipset 172 usd
OCZ DDR2-1000 4096 MB Platinum Edition 86usd
Total: 488 usd

but my setup will be cheap i just need to drop deneb in
as i got a Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DS5 with a Phenom 9850 + 4GB PC6400 DDR2 atm

btw there is zero points of 32-bit XP and Core i7, get 64-bit XP or Vista 64-bit

[JumpingJack]

Guys, perhaps everyone should simply knock it off ... this is exactly why KTE left --- a huge loss to the group.

Jack

[informal]

Guys, perhaps everyone should simply knock it off ... this is exactly why KTE left --- a huge loss to the group.

Jack

Listen to the man,he speaks wise words

[Brother Esau]

Guys, perhaps everyone should simply knock it off ... this is exactly why KTE left --- a huge loss to the group.

Jack

My point exactly Jack.

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

actually it's about the 800 series that has 2MB less cache than the 900 series. I'd guess it's parts with defective L3 cache. This makes me wonder whether propus is actually a different mask without the L3

we appear to be looking at different *'s.

[Rammsteiner]

Well, prolly the '*' could mean YMMV? Or aftermarket cooler

[maroon1]

Core i7 358 usd
Gigabyte GA-X58-UD5 358 usd
OCZ DDR3-1600 Platinum EB XTC 4 GB (2 x 2048) 279 usd
Total: 995 usd

here is my estamate how much deneb will cost
AMD Phenom II 940 230 usd
790FX or 790GX chipset 172 usd
OCZ DDR2-1000 4096 MB Platinum Edition 86usd
Total: 488 usd

First: Core i7 2.66GHz cost $309.99 at newegg, and you can get it for $299.99 Microcenter. I think Core i7 will also perform better than any of Phenom II CPUs

Second: There are much cheaper X58 motherboards at newegg than the one you posted.

Third: The DDR3 you posted is very expensive, and you can get much cheaper one. Furthermore, Core i7 performs the best on Triple channel memory

Here is an example
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231222

Forth: Phenom II is not out yet. At the time Phenom II comes out the price of Core i7, X58 motherboard and DDR3 might get cheaper.

Fifth: there is no evidence that Phenom II will be better than Yorkfield which is cheaper than Core i7

Last but not least: Your pricing of Phenom II 940 is based on assumption

[FlanK3r]

[Trouffman]

Credit : The Overclocker

Source : Syndrome-OC

[Rammsteiner]

First: Core i7 2.66GHz cost $319.99 at newegg, and you can get it for $299.99 Microcenter. I think Core i7 will also perform better than any of Phenom II CPUs

It's quite clear it will perform better yes. But that's not the point really, also wiak didnt say it would.

Second: There are much cheaper X58 motherboards at newegg than the one you posted.

So there are much cheaper motherboards for AM2, which still do the OC you want. I think that Gigabyte motherboard is pretty average. But then take an Asus P6/Intel X58, like 290$.

In the end the price of a RD790/SB750 board could be lowered since the DFI one is 175$, which is at the same time one of the best ones available.

Third: The DDR3 you posted is very expensive, and you can get much cheaper one. Furthermore, Core i7 performs the best on Triple channel memory

That kit you selected is only DDR1333 and tCL 9. I'd chose this anytime over that kit you selected. That was a quick pick btw, obviously there might be a slightly cheaper alternative.

However, for 120$ you seem to have 4GB of Micron D9's, which are the generally the best to have. Ive Transcend D9's, which ain't available anymore (out of production). But over at TPU DDR1200 tCL4 wasnt a rare thing and some guy even got DDR1400 at 2.2~2.3Vdimm. However, lets not focus too much on those things since nobody really knows thus far how well those triple channel kits OC and/or whether you can safely use >1.65Vdimm or not.

Forth: Phenom II is not out yet. At the time Phenom II comes out the price of Core i7, X58 motherboard and DDR3 might get cheaper.

I doubt that... highly. Triple channel is a new thing because of the IC's and since it's for a very specific platform, I dont think it will drop any soon. Compare it like gas for cars. It's needed, and if you've to pay 1Euro/l you're happy unlike with 3Euro/l, you'll still buy it.

I see X58 becoming a tad cheaper but, those enthusiast boards will have a long road to go before that happens. Even skt 775 enthusiast boards (like ROG etc) are still ~250 Euro. Core i7 price drop? At most 30$ before Phenom II hits, mainly depends on AMD's pricing.

Fifth: there is no evidence that Phenom II will be better than Yorkfield which is cheaper than Core i7

Still I ain't sure about it. Shanghai got a nice boost already. If current news stories are true Deneb will OC like a beast without too much issues as heat and even Agena gets more bandwith than Yorkfield, so Deneb with slight improvements will at least keep the same delta. For Deneb it all comes down to clock speeds now. Also Yorkfield is thus far quite expensive, prolly going to be more expensive than Deneb.

Reason Im getting an i7 for example is since it made only a 100~200 Euro difference between a dieing platform and a brand new platform which is faster at the same time.

Last but not least: Your pricing of Phenom II 940 is based on assumption

What's wrong with that

Anyway, in Euro prices I get this for top notch stuff, based on average prices;

AMD Phenom 9950BE 125W 175Euro
DFI Lanparty DK 790FXB-M2RS 130Euro
Asus M3A79-T Deluxe 175Euro
4x 1GB Crucial Balistix DDR1066 85Euro

Intel Core i7 920 300Euro
Asus Rampage II Formula 360Euro
Asus P6T Deluxe 270Euro
Gigabyte GA-EX58-Extreme 300Euro
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 270Euro
3x 2GB DDR1600 tCL8 300Euro
3x 1GB DDR1600 tCL8 180Euro

So basicly, top notch AMD system at max costs 425Euro, and that delivers a certain 3~3.4Ghz OC with good RAM with extremes of having luck DDR800 3-3-3, DDR1200 or even DDR1200 4-4-4, but wouldn't take that too serious. However <DDR1066 tCL4 is doable, also >DDR1100 tCL5. Also upgradability to Deneb without issues, which if we believe those slides does ~4Ghz without too many issues.

Bloomsfield platform top notch costs 960Euro and just with good stuff it costs 750Euro. Bloomfield might be faster, but with such price differences? Lets not forget the major point of getting an Intel system is that it could most of the time run at higher clocks than Agena, while Agena was in quite a few apps slower clock for clock. Deneb might still be slower clock for clock than i7, or maybe even Yorkfield, but with a ~4Ghz OC you wont even notice the difference at all.

So whatever point you tried to make, it ain't making a lot of sense And there's always cheaper alternatives, but this will result in a relative bigger price drop for AMD than for i7 really.

[Donnie27]

You ate those candies which make you turn my argument the other way around?

Do you really think I even care about any FM benchmarks? Any SuperPI benchmarks? No matter AMD is being better at it or not? Sure you'd care if AMD were fasterI at most post a few results to make other people happy. For me personally both results tell me jack , it's only an eventual reason to try and improve the score, whatever that score is actually telling me in the first place.

And actually, the last part of your argument is really stupid there you go again since Im very relative in making decisions. I see everything, and if I had an argument which was basicly wrong, I admit I was wrong, no more and no less. Also you might want to take a better look at my sig, since in this case, your argument is like... 100% clueless.

Also;

The only thing you'll do is make others skip your posts. Your sig has NOTHING to do with what you're posting. I don't need to call you clueless and stupid when you're constantly doing it yourself. Do you even have a clue what TACT is?

Ph-II has a chance to get AMD out of the Red. Folks looking for real info on it shouldn't have to filter through BS like yours.

[wiak]

It's quite clear it will perform better yes. But that's not the point really, also wiak didnt say it would.


So there are much cheaper motherboards for AM2, which still do the OC you want. I think that Gigabyte motherboard is pretty average. But then take an Asus P6/Intel X58, like 290$.

In the end the price of a RD790/SB750 board could be lowered since the DFI one is 175$, which is at the same time one of the best ones available.


That kit you selected is only DDR1333 and tCL 9. I'd chose this anytime over that kit you selected. That was a quick pick btw, obviously there might be a slightly cheaper alternative.

However, for 120$ you seem to have 4GB of Micron D9's, which are the generally the best to have. Ive Transcend D9's, which ain't available anymore (out of production). But over at TPU DDR1200 tCL4 wasnt a rare thing and some guy even got DDR1400 at 2.2~2.3Vdimm. However, lets not focus too much on those things since nobody really knows thus far how well those triple channel kits OC and/or whether you can safely use >1.65Vdimm or not.


I doubt that... highly. Triple channel is a new thing because of the IC's and since it's for a very specific platform, I dont think it will drop any soon. Compare it like gas for cars. It's needed, and if you've to pay 1Euro/l you're happy unlike with 3Euro/l, you'll still buy it.

I see X58 becoming a tad cheaper but, those enthusiast boards will have a long road to go before that happens. Even skt 775 enthusiast boards (like ROG etc) are still ~250 Euro. Core i7 price drop? At most 30$ before Phenom II hits, mainly depends on AMD's pricing.


Still I ain't sure about it. Shanghai got a nice boost already. If current news stories are true Deneb will OC like a beast without too much issues as heat and even Agena gets more bandwith than Yorkfield, so Deneb with slight improvements will at least keep the same delta. For Deneb it all comes down to clock speeds now. Also Yorkfield is thus far quite expensive, prolly going to be more expensive than Deneb.

Reason Im getting an i7 for example is since it made only a 100~200 Euro difference between a dieing platform and a brand new platform which is faster at the same time.


What's wrong with that

Anyway, in Euro prices I get this for top notch stuff, based on average prices;

AMD Phenom 9950BE 125W 175Euro
DFI Lanparty DK 790FXB-M2RS 130Euro
Asus M3A79-T Deluxe 175Euro
4x 1GB Crucial Balistix DDR1066 85Euro

Intel Core i7 920 300Euro
Asus Rampage II Formula 360Euro
Asus P6T Deluxe 270Euro
Gigabyte GA-EX58-Extreme 300Euro
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 270Euro
3x 2GB DDR1600 tCL8 300Euro
3x 1GB DDR1600 tCL8 180Euro

So basicly, top notch AMD system at max costs 425Euro, and that delivers a certain 3~3.4Ghz OC with good RAM with extremes of having luck DDR800 3-3-3, DDR1200 or even DDR1200 4-4-4, but wouldn't take that too serious. However <DDR1066 tCL4 is doable, also >DDR1100 tCL5. Also upgradability to Deneb without issues, which if we believe those slides does ~4Ghz without too many issues.

Bloomsfield platform top notch costs 960Euro and just with good stuff it costs 750Euro. Bloomfield might be faster, but with such price differences? Lets not forget the major point of getting an Intel system is that it could most of the time run at higher clocks than Agena, while Agena was in quite a few apps slower clock for clock. Deneb might still be slower clock for clock than i7, or maybe even Yorkfield, but with a ~4Ghz OC you wont even notice the difference at all.

So whatever point you tried to make, it ain't making a lot of sense And there's always cheaper alternatives, but this will result in a relative bigger price drop for AMD than for i7 really.

just look at Radeon HD 4870,it was 75% speed of Geforce GTX 280 but was a hit why? cost half

GTX 260 was beated by 4870, so why cant deneb beat Core 2 Quad
more people buy 500 euro computers than 1000 euro computers
my budget is kinda small, i just upgrade when i got cash

[Donnie27]

just look at Radeon HD 4870,it was 75% speed of Geforce GTX 280 but was a hit why? cost half

GTX 260 was beated by 4870, so why cant deneb beat Core 2 Quad
more people buy 500 euro computers than 1000 euro computers ?
my budget is kinda small, i just upgrade when i got cash

The bottom line. The profit margin on those 1K euro computers is larger than the razor-thin margins on the 500 euro ones. I do agree with you about costs though.