Deneb Samples are almost out

[Rammsteiner]

3 days till we see if shanghai delivers or not.

Meh... Cant they quicly switch Shanghai release to Deneb release

Anyway, those so called 'victories'... Especially Mhz, it's indeed pointless since it highly depends on the architecture as well. As less I understand from architectural CPU designs, I do know that. Prescott for example could end up very high regarding Mhz but in the end it would bite in the dust against an AMD FX/Opteron clocked untill the general wall.

Also it depends what the architecture was meant to do in the first place. First IMC is useless when it's meant for desktops, but it ain't for servers. Same as HT and 64-bit. But K8 was meant for servers, and if you can push it to desktops it's only good. No one gets hurt by having those features and it only pushes other technologies for dektop just that bit further (like more 64-bit Windows/program options). Also features as HT, 64-bit and IMC's, albeit maybe not needed at that point, only favor (in this case) AMD since you're more future ready so to speak. With HT you've for a long time no bandwith problems, with 64-bit you satisfy the very few customers who do use it, but you dont have to do it later on either, it's from the 'to-do' list.

[justthefax]

Trust me, right now, Intel is running fast, even without AMD around, what you are talking about is just in the imagination of some people.

So you guys in the P4 performance team would have come to the conclusion yourself that the design sucked and was a dead-end?

[Helmore]

So you guys in the P4 performance team would have come to the conclusion yourself that the design sucked and was a dead-end?

Don't be so childish would you? I agree with him, we should be in a more friendly spirit and behave like that.

It would be nice though if AMD and Intel were pretty much neck on neck with each other in general, this could bring a nice price war between the two and we consumers can always benefit from those.

[gosh]

EDIT: Ok, I see the thread ... you made, more or less, a public accusation about HardOCP that was not flattering. Kyle did not like it at all -- from my perspective

OT
Then he should do something about it. I think that HardOCP is worse than the forum on tomshardware.

[JumpingJack]

OT
Then he should do something about it. I think that HardOCP is worse than the forum on tomshardware.

I think you missed the point .... that's ok.

Jack

[gosh]

I think you missed the point .... that's ok.

No but if all items should be cleared then that would have been a looooooong discusson.


One note though: I am not a AMD supporter, What I might be is one that dislikes monopoly and I also like technical advancements for programmers. Solutions that holds good solutions back etc makes my job less fun. It is possible to do much smarter solutions with the hardware design Phenom and i7 has compared to Core 2.
I can for example create objects that is using threads internally to gain speed. The user of the object don't need to know what goes on in the object. I think there will be a lot of solutions like that when cores are increased. From a programmer perspective the Core 2 almost doesn't scale at all (only to two cores). The only way to scale good for more cores is to build code as separate applications with minimal communication. There are just a few type of applications out there where that type of solution is relatively simple to implement. There are different design solutions for more complex solutions like using "thread pools" etc but it is not optimal and the whole application needs to be modified for this.

[cegras]

Trust me, right now, Intel is running fast, even without AMD around, what you are talking about is just in the imagination of some people.

This is a very personal view, I lived through this as one of the P4 performance guy, I was an insider on this, trust me, if you look at the memory controler of Nehalem, you ll figure out that on many main stream programs, it does not help much yet, proving that AMD claims about memory controler were base less.

Just remember, Competition is good, but it is not always what drives people. In my case, I try to make the CPU faster, for same reason other people will tune up their Nissan GTR ... For the love of it, and I can tell you that Ronak and his team are the same, they love CPU architecture, and they work every day for making it faster and better.
Forget the fan boys discussions, it is all about "pimp my ride" thinking, get it fast, get it good, and please, give us the right to be proud of our archivements.

Let's keep the olympic spirit, that the best we can do for all of us.

"Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy found in effort, the educational value of a good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles. "
Pierre de Coubertin

Oh really? Where was all this ethic when any company has a dominant position in the market? For example, what's going on with Microsoft right now? AMD with the X2? Nvidia with the G80?

Naive. Your opinion as an insider has even less weight because we, the consumers, are the ones that truly see what the company does on the outside. Whatever chugs away on the inside doesn't matter, because we interact with the outside, we exchange money for your product.

As 'elegant' as the memory controller that AMD uses 'feels', one has to admit that the intel platform accomplishes more given the same energy input (however you choose to distribute it among the platform). However, from what I've seen that only applies to the desktop. I'm sure AMD has had better performance in the server segment for a long time, where the sheer volume of requests can easily overwhelm an FSB based structure (of course this switched when Barcelona did not meet expectations, but look at the Shanghai results now).

[Chad Boga]

Oh really? Where was all this ethic when any company has a dominant position in the market? For example, what's going on with Microsoft right now? AMD with the X2? Nvidia with the G80?

He was talking about Intel, not other companies, thus the point you appear to be trying to make doesn't even get off the ground.

However, from what I've seen that only applies to the desktop. I'm sure AMD has had better performance in the server segment for a long time, where the sheer volume of requests can easily overwhelm an FSB based structure

You are mistaking some segments of the server market for all segments of the server market.

[justthefax]

Let's keep the olympic spirit, that the best we can do for all of us.

"Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy found in effort, the educational value of a good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles. "
Pierre de Coubertin

The Olympic spirit? Is that the spirit where Intel tried to use threats of supply cutoffs on anybody who supported AMD? Where companies were too intimidated to show themselves at the Opteron launch because of fear of Intel reprisals?

Maybe it's the Olympic spirit of North Korea or East Germany -- cheat, dope, do anything to win.

"The educational value of a good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles"

You CRACK ME UP, DrWho!!!!!

[Rammsteiner]

TBH the olympic spirit is crap with all it's dope and banning countries from participating that ain't on one line with the USA/west. But well, lets keep it on topic heh.

[cegras]

He was talking about Intel, not other companies, thus the point you appear to be trying to make doesn't even get off the ground.


You are mistaking some segments of the server market for all segments of the server market.

Actually, I attempted not to appear to be intel bashing by specifically not mentioning the P4. Way to go there, trooper.

As for multi socket operations, I'm sure those alone net AMD a significant portion of revenue. Such as, I don't know, ordering 50,000 opterons to build a 1.26 petaflop server (if I remember correctly, but besides this example there are many others). Again, you miss the point.

The point is AMD's interconnect and IMC only really shine in server loads, and don't shine as much in desktop loads. As I pointed out.

[JohnJohn]

never mind :/

[Sly Fox]

Intel and AMD make great products imo.

Amazing how even those who know tech tends to go back and forth between dominance get into such a fit arguing.

Intel has rocked the last couple years, awesome, I love my Q6600. But what does this have to do with AMD? Be happy we even have two major consumer CPU manufacturers, because I'm sure either company would gladly form a monopoly and jack up prices if they could.