Deneb just around the corner?

[Chad Boga]

I think most are going to be surprised with Deneb. Everyone, even the guys who think it is going to be outstanding. AMD has learned their lesson with Barcalona and I am sure they will not let it happen again.

You do realise Deneb isn't a new architecture, don't you?

[m411b]

You do realise Deneb isn't a new architecture, don't you?

You do realize that Deneb has not been released yet, dont you?

[Chad Boga]

You do realize that Deneb has not been released yet, dont you?

So you do hold irrational hopes for Deneb and are unaware that it isn't a new architecture?

It not being released is irrelevant and in fact saves you from disappointment that will soon be yours.

[m411b]

So you do hold irrational hopes for Deneb and are unaware that it isn't a new architecture?

It not being released is irrelevant and in fact saves you from disappointment that will soon be yours.

So you are threatened and thats why you are in the AMD section starting sh|t!

[DRT-Maverick]

The 48xx series was a new architecture, Deneb is just a shrink with some extra cache, so your Nvidia comparison is poor.

"shrinking" the die is much more than just making the size of everything smaller, you have to redesign the architecture as well, at least from what I understood.

[AbelJemka]

The 48xx series was a new architecture, Deneb is just a shrink with some extra cache, so your Nvidia comparison is poor.

48xx are based on R600 no new architecture. So recycling is not so bad

[Chad Boga]

So you are threatened and thats why you are in the AMD section starting sh|t!

LOL!!! How am I threatened?

What kind of tenuous grasp on reality do you have?

Is there something particularly special about the AMD section that I need to know about?

One thing I have noticed though in this section is a number of people holding quite irrationally optimistic views on Deneb's likely prospects.

[Chad Boga]

48xx are based on R600 no new architecture. So recycling is not so bad

As much as any new generation of video card is generally referred to as a new architecture, I believe it was.

Do we say that the GTX280 is just a recycling of the 88xx series?

[charged3800z24]

So you do hold irrational hopes for Deneb and are unaware that it isn't a new architecture?

It not being released is irrelevant and in fact saves you from disappointment that will soon be yours.

You do realize that AMD as said and yes even Dirk, that there ahve been a lot of improvements along with this die shrink. It will be better the 65nm. They said on the record that it has better then expected improvements ion Power Consumtion, and other tweaks. I don't expect it to beat i7 at 8 threads LOL.. but it will be a faster chip then current Phenom's. Which is still better...it is not going to be the same or worse. and it isn't to be priced high. And it is the first 3.0ghz quad from AMD, even 3.0ghz 65nm chips compete comparable in a lot of cases, if this is faster, then it is still better and a desired change. I have AM2+ boards all over my house..so it is a direct fit, no need to spend more then a chip upgrade. Did i ramble off pace here...LOL I am tired and hungry and work is driving me crazy....

[DRT-Maverick]

48xx are based on R600 no new architecture. So recycling is not so bad

No they're not, they have the R700 series chip in them. That might be similar to the R600 but it actually functions a lot differently. I'll search for the article, the way the data was handled and everything was different.

[Chad Boga]

You do realize that AMD as said and yes even Dirk, that there ahve been a lot of improvements along with this die shrink.

AMD's credibility is in tatters in respect of at least their CPU's, so I have relatively low expectations for them, hopefully they can restore my faith, I'm just not counting on it.

Sure Deneb will be better than Phenom, but I very much doubt by the 15 to 20% margins many are claiming, except in niche applications.

[m411b]

LOL!!! How am I threatened?

What kind of tenuous grasp on reality do you have?

Is there something particularly special about the AMD section that I need to know about?

One thing I have noticed though in this section is a number of people holding quite irrationally optimistic views on Deneb's likely prospects.

You're not worth it!
Reported for flame baiting.. Have a nice day, and thank God for the ignore function.

[GenTarkin]

No they're not, they have the R700 series chip in them. That might be similar to the R600 but it actually functions a lot differently. I'll search for the article, the way the data was handled and everything was different.

You are right, the memory controller is no longer a ring based controller its point2point how most memory controllers work. Not to mention its TMU increase and SP tweaks and increases.
The R700 is a vastly improved R600 major changes being what I mentioned and some other low level tweaks in there that I cant remember off top of my head.

[demonkevy666]

wasn't r700 a redsign of shaders ? (because of poor AA and AF on both 2900 Xt and 3870)

http://images.bit-tech.net/content_i...rv670-flow.jpg (3870)

http://prohardver.hu/dl/rev/2008-06/...v770_block.jpg (4870)

[soundood]

AMD's credibility is in tatters in respect of at least their CPU's, so I have relatively low expectations for them, hopefully they can restore my faith, I'm just not counting on it.

Sure Deneb will be better than Phenom, but I very much doubt by the 15 to 20% margins many are claiming, except in niche applications.

up util this point, i was sort of going along with what you were saying, this statement however is nonsense.

here is the math,

2.8 gig = current max offiical clock from AMD
3.0 - 3.2 gig = estimated speed from Deneb

= 15% to 20% increase.

considering most Phenoms will hit 3 gig now, this doesnt seem to 'out there' and some of the lucky guys like Hondaman and charged, are hitting 3.5 gig on water with current Phenoms, then.....

it isnt that much of a leap of Imagination to envisage that the new chips will hit 4 gig? is it?

for me a quad core AMD chip at 4 gig is something to shout about.

and as far as i am concerned a die shrink = new manufactueing process = new architecture, even if this resembles the same architecture as before.

its a differant chip, and no amount of 'its rubbish because' will persaude me otherwise, maybe they will listen to you over at the Intel Forums.

not here

[Chad Boga]

up util this point, i was sort of going along with what you were saying, this statement however is nonsense.

I am talking about IPC, I guess I should have been clearer, but I would hardly be shocked if a 3 Ghz Deneb isn't 20% faster than a 2.6 Ghz Phenom.

here is the math,

2.8 gig = current max offiical clock from AMD

Isn't 2.6Ghz the fastest available stock speed?

it isnt that much of a leap of Imagination to envisage that the new chips will hit 4 gig? is it?

I suspect hitting 4 gig will be notably less common than it is for Penryn Quads.

and as far as i am concerned a die shrink = new manufactueing process = new architecture, even if this resembles the same architecture as before.

That is quite a perverse interpretation you got going for yourself there.

Bulldozer will be a new architecture, not Deneb.

[Lastviking]

I am talking about IPC, I guess I should have been clearer, but I would hardly be shocked if a 3 Ghz Deneb isn't 20% faster than a 2.6 Ghz Phenom.


Isn't 2.6Ghz the fastest available stock speed?


I suspect hitting 4 gig will be notably less common than it is for Penryn Quads.


That is quite a perverse interpretation you got going for yourself there.

Bulldozer will be a new architecture, not Deneb.

....

ITS not 2.6ghz vs 3.0ghz = 20% performance boost... IT are Phenom 2.6ghz vs Denab 2.6 thats give = 20% performance boost

[keithlm]

Deneb is just a shrink with some extra cache,

The "it's only a die shrink" people remind me of the movie "Life of Brian" about the Romans.

"Deneb is just a shrink. Well okay they did add some cache. Oh yeah and they also increased it to 48-way instead of 32-way. And yes they also probably optimized some of the routines in the processor. And changed cool and quiet for efficiency. Perhaps they tweaked the HT. And perhaps they worked on things we don't know about. But other than those minor things it's just a shrink so what can we expect."

[Chad Boga]

....

ITS not 2.6ghz vs 3.0ghz = 20% performance boost... IT are Phenom 2.6ghz vs Denab 2.6 thats give = 20% performance boost

Well not only do I not believe that there will be a 20% IPC boost in going from Phenom to Deneb, I am amazed how many people just believe what they want to believe, rather than what is likely.

[soundood]

and as far as i am concerned a die shrink = new manufactueing process = new architecture, even if this resembles the same architecture as before.

That is quite a perverse interpretation you got going for yourself there.

ok, if you cant get your head round it, here is the 12 year old version,

something made smaller than previous example = new method to make it smaller = a shrinking of previous method, or completely new method.

now even if it looks the same, (Just smaller) doesnt mean this is the same architecture, changes will have to have been made to facilitate the shrinking process

even just shrinking a wire, means this is an architectural change.

plain enough for you?

[Chad Boga]

The "it's only a die shrink" people remind me of the movie "Life of Brian" about the Romans.

"Deneb is just a shrink. Well okay they did add some cache. Oh yeah and they also increased it to 48-way instead of 32-way. And yes they also probably optimized some of the routines in the processor. And changed cool and quiet for efficiency. Perhaps they tweaked the HT. And perhaps they worked on things we don't know about. But other than those minor things it's just a shrink so what can we expect."

So what is your fearless prediction for IPC improvement for Deneb over Phenom?

[Chad Boga]

ok, if you cant get your head round it, here is the 12 year old version,

something made smaller than previous example = new method to make it smaller = a shrinking of previous method, or completely new method.

now even if it looks the same, (Just smaller) doesnt mean this is the same architecture, changes will have to have been made to facilitate the shrinking process

even just shrinking a wire, means this is an architectural change.

plain enough for you?

I understand what you are saying, I just think it is a ridiculous take on the shrink.

[keithlm]

So what is your fearless prediction for IPC improvement for Deneb over Phenom?

Why should I make one because of a request from a known Intel fanhat?

You don't appear to accept what would be a logical amount even if it was "just a shrink" as you claim; attempting to understand anything more than that might push past the limits of your abilities.

[soundood]

Chad no hard feelings here really, you dont seem confrontational at all, hence why i still reply to you, and your not on my ignore list.

but,

for someone that quotes themself to be a 'overclocking newbie' in an intel forum only two months ago, to then come on here and spew IPC performance is sort of grating.

i do truly believe that you have no idea what your talking about now.

so i wish you all the best over at the intel forum, but remind you that you are not the first, and wont be the last intel boy to come over here, and question our logic.

WE are AMD here, and WE know what we are talking about, we niether want to bench against Intel or compare.

i wish you the best for the future, you are now on my ignore list

bye

[Chad Boga]

Why should I make one because of a request from a known Intel fanhat?

You don't appear to accept what would be a logical amount even if it was "just a shrink" as you claim; attempting to understand anything more than that might push past the limits of your abilities.

Ahhhh so you are all bluster and are easily exposed when called upon it.

Face it, Deneb will clearly have less IPC than Penryn and will be lucky to equal Conroe.