Quick question - Acrylic

[Locksley]

As stated in the sticky Acrylic tops will eventually crack and I wonder:

1. Is that still true with todays A. tops?
2. Why - is it the heat and pressure, additives?
3. I've changed my order to Acetal tops - are they a better choice?
4. I'm ordering a spare pump and it's tank is made of Acrylic - wrong choice (most tanks seem to be made of A.)?

I'll rather wait and do it right than rush and be sorry

Cheers!

EDIT: - Answers to the question of Acrylic.

---> Cracking will not be a concern if proper care is taken. (unless it is faulty from the factory :P )

1. Overtightening the barbs will stress the plastic; especially with todays somewhat convex plates.

2. Gasoline and alcohol will alter the structure of the plastic crystals? thus making it more brittle.

3. Stress like the pull of tight tubing "might" have an influence.

4. UV lights affecting acrylic properties? [EDIT:Seems like there is agreement on this from more people - so keep it in mind. End edit] More input needed, although VERY strong UV will affect many things I don't know if the lights used in modding are that strong.

5. Acetal can take more punishment.

Thank you all for your continues input.
Cheers!

[shachar2]

As stated in the sticky Acrylic tops will eventually crack

I just "love" facts like that that generalize EVERYTHING.
Where's the fact from exactly? I haven't seen it

[MomijiTMO]

They crack from people over tightening the screws and barbs. The acetal tops can take more punishment and don't crack as easy. The pump is fine because the acrylic is rather thick.

[shachar2]

given enough time all matter will crack from the heat differences and pressure and since most pumps are rated at 50,000 MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) which is about 5 years non stop (about as much time as you keep a computer today?) I think that acrylic tops will be ok

I've seen one pump that's rated at 150,000 MTBF (17 years!) and 1 watt startup

[Locksley]

Thank you!

Acrylic looks nice but since I don't run with a showy comp (I got the Antec Sonata - looks nice, fits in my comp. furniture) I might as well go with Acetal, atleast on the CPU block (EK-supreme) since it's the same price for me. And maybe switch back to Acrylic for the GFX card.

Now if you want to warn me off the EK stuff I might give it second thoughts but they seem nice and got good reviews.

Thanks again

EDIT - oh, the "Fact" is from the sticky Leak testing. Yeah, I thought it seemed a bit over the top with "will eventually crack" so I got worried ofcourse :P

[voigts]

Acrylic is probably better avoided on CPU blocks as that is where it got a bad rep from. Acrylic is a great material if used properly. The problem comes when acrylic is stressed too much by overtightening as was mentioned which causes it to crack.

[Broken]

And there was an instance way back when with a bad batch of acrylic, at least that is what I remember. Cathar knows the details as it was for the Cascade block. It never leaked but he sent me a new top and it was a-ok after that. Stuff happens. Be prepared for it.

[twwen2]

Where's the fact from exactly? I haven't seen it

From people's personal experiences. Just recently there has been a few XSPC acyrlic blocks which have cracked. This could be due to overtightening, or simply a bad batch.

Here's the link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...highlight=XSPC

[Kayin]

Most cracked acrylic tops are caused by improper handling. I have RBX #3 that still has its top uncracked and its replacement top uncracked. This block dates from 2004. No alcohol, and not overtightening made the difference.

[iboomalot]

alcohol or gasoline etc etc cause the internal crystal structure to tighten up and becoming brittle

Lexan which is very flexible and nearly indistructable can be broken once exposed to gasoline.

It was explained to me like this take a styrofoam cup and if you look at the cup it has cells/bubble type structure.
The gasoline causes the cup to contract the cells and this is basically what happens on the plexi just on a microscopic level.

not sure if I explained that right if someone wants to do a better job please feel free


oh ya and overtighten the bolts is a no no too

[IanY]

Attention: I myself do not like acrylic blocks and don't have any. However, if you want to use the EK Supreme, I would suggest that it is almost critically important to buy the acrylic version rather than the acetal version. The EK Supreme is a jet impingement block, much like the old Swiftech Storm or Cathar's Little River G4/G4. Jet impingement blocks clog up at the darnest time and you would never know if you have an acetal top. I used to disassemble my Swiftech Storm as damn frequently just to check the impingement jets and the internals for clogging. Do yourself a favor and save a lot of hassle. Buy the acrylic version.

[Locksley]

Darn :P Back to acrylic it is then. I am going to use waterwetter, well that was the idea atleast - isn't that alcohol based?!??! And if it is, will that make the A.top brittle?

I might as well post my intended loop here for you to criticize, I might start a new thread if there is no response (as the thread starts out as something else)

1. CPU: EK-supreme
2. Asus Extreme M.board with fusion water block.
3. GPU: EK-8800gtx
4. Pump: Asetek extreme.... Yes I know, but I like the bells and whistles - but you are welcome to suggest other pumps and reservoirs.
5. Rad: Black Ice GT Stealth 360
6. Fans: Noctua NF-P12 1300 - I got high hopes for this baby.
7. Tubing 3/8 (10mm OD, 8mm ID)
8. Push fittings

Flame away, erh, I mean please give critic

EDIT: I don't really need a jet impingement CPU block, I will only slightly OC my Q9450 so if there is a less restrictive that is considered "best of" I will take that into consideration.

[septim]

1. CPU: EK-supreme (dtek fuzion v2, not so restrictive block but performs well)
2. Asus Extreme M.board with fusion water block. (most change the standard heatpipe to water blocks anyway...)
3. GPU: EK-8800gtx (no probs here)
4. Pump: Asetek extreme.... Yes I know, but I like the bells and whistles - but you are welcome to suggest other pumps and reservoirs. (ddc/mcp355 with xspc top/res top)
5. Rad: Black Ice GT Stealth 360 (MCR320 less restriction to water and air)
6. Fans: Noctua NF-P12 1300 - I got high hopes for this baby. (pending some more reviews from Vapor, I'd recommend Sflex-F and a good fan controller to undervolt them)
7. Tubing 3/8 (10mm OD, 8mm ID) (tubing size just right...)
8. Push fittings (try some Bitspower High Flow Barbs or Compression Barbs, Koolance newer Nickle plated Brass barbs are also good)

[Locksley]

Great - thanks.
CPU: I had been looking at the dtek but the one dealer I am looking at right now didn't carry them

Pump: Since it seems Asetek can't be bought anywhere I have been eying laing; although some people don't seem to like em neither :P

Rad: Yeah, I read they are a bit restrictive both in airflow and water. I'll check out the MCR too.

Fans: Will check out Sflex, although Noctua still seem both quiet and have a good air pressure ability; and that will be important when having a restrictive rad.

Fittings: Will read up some on this. High flow sounds nice

Thank's for the input, much appreciated.

[iboomalot]

1. CPU: EK-supreme (dtek fuzion v2, not so restrictive block but performs well) DITTO
4. Pump: Asetek extreme.... I like MCP655 vario myself
5. Rad: Black Ice GT Stealth 360 spending $$$ get a ThermoChill rad
6. Fans: Noctua NF-P12 1300 - (pending some more reviews from Vapor, I'd recommend Sflex-F and a good fan controller to undervolt them) BIG FAT DITTO!!!!!!!!!!
7. Tubing 3/8 (10mm OD, 8mm ID) I like 7/16th over 1/2" barbs myselft


5a. TC very good cooling with low rpm fans and would fit better IMO.

[Zaskar]

Id only worry about acrylic if you have allot of tight bends and there is allot of tension on the barbs because of it.
But that's just worrying, I don't really know for sure if that is enough to cause any concern.

[Locksley]

Right. I'm all sweaty now after ordering new computer parts - bye bye my cozy money

Hmm, might check if I can find an other dealer.

1. Dtek, was my first choice as well; seems like I have to find a new shop.

4. Pump: Yeah, seems like I'll go with laing if no one stops me.

5. Rad: A bit divided on the rad. Did read that french test and they had some nice info on rad's in general - such as a thinner rad might be a good choice. Hmm, will consider.

6. Fans: We are talking Scythe here right; yes they are nice fans but is there someone who has had a bad experience with Noctua? I will see if I find any info on the actual pressure for the Sflex, that's what sold me on NF-P12.

7. Tubing - as long as it's easy to work with and don't kink I am happy (and don't crack, swell, stiffen.... eh, ok so much for small demands).

Cheers!

[jonny_ftm]

I also heard that UV lights can alter acrylic elasticity components and make it crack quicker

Also, not always cracking is user fault, as of the SCW-1 story and the "unofficially official" recall of stocks

[iboomalot]

Scythe S-Flex E 1200RPM - S-FDB bearings kick ass. Very, very little extraneous noise, relatively inexpensive, no positional oddities like sleeves, and fairly well sealed. They also don't have the radiator slow-down that the Minebeas exhibit. But they're also not empirically as good in open air. However, the entire S-Flex range is among my favorites. Very, very good fans that don't make extraneous noises nor cost an a lot.


Noctua S-1200 - I have always been harsh on this fan. Although it continues to do well in the open air and even with it's awesome low-pitched barely-there noise profile, I will continue to be hard on it. Open air rarely happens....even a fan filter or a non-wire fingerguard will hamper this fan horribly. Noctua even recognizes this and has introduced a new line built for radiators/HSFs/real-life. It's a good fan with a very serious design flaw.



from the sticky fan thread

[Locksley]

Yes, I can concur with the sticky that the S-1200 is not very good in a restrictive environment. Apparently Noctua acknowledge this too.

Now the NF-P12 is an other story; it got great reviews in close fitting environments, it's close fitting nine bladed fan is both quiet and effective at pulling air even though it's showed up right against a grill or rad. So this is what I'll do, go with the P12 and eventually (when I've set up the loop) post some subjective results.

On an other note - I've found (with the help of the sticky with shops) an other store that has a nice selection. The www.watercoolingshop.com. The other one I had been looking at was a German one that is not in the sticky http://www.caseking.de

I am going to miss Aseteks temp readings and fan control and such but gain better pressure but less flow rate with the Laing.

And the UK shop got dtek (but out of stock, neither does it say if it's v2), going to use the quad spreader - good idea?

Seems my shopping list changes every few days lol.

Any thoughts on using Waterwetter - good idea or keep away?

[Kayin]

Keep away. Not only is it toxic, but it messes with temps more than pentosin and it really doesn't do much for a rig at the temps we operate at.

[IanY]

Run away from it. It stinks to high heaven. Its nasty and slimey.

[bigslappy]

Any thoughts on using Waterwetter - good idea or keep away?

distilled water is the best & cheapest cooling liquid there is & being the best non-conductive liquid u can use
It's a no brainer !

UV is bad on alot things plastic & it's bad for your eyes causes cateracts on yer eye lenzes
Think exposing yer systems to full sun & how bad that will do to all things plastic

[Locksley]

Right - no waterwetter. Any additives to use to keep algae from taking over?

EDIT! - Darn. This Laing pump got almost half the flow rate of the Asetek, higher pressure though. So, flowrate on pump is more important than pressure? End edit.

This is the pump I am currently considering - Laing DDC-1T Plus Ultra w/Alphacool Top

10/8mm compression fittings on all the stuff.

They only got PVC tubing with that size.

Still no Dtek - I might go with Ek-supreme if it wont come into stock.

Thanks all again for good input.