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Thread: Fan Mini-Review: Battle of the Big Name ~50CFM Fans

  1. #1
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    Fan Mini-Review: Battle of the Big Name ~50CFM Fans

    Fan Roundup Part 3 has begun

    Preface
    Doing things a little differently for my third fan mega-round-up. Will be doing mini installments of some 'key' matchups as I build up all the data to the full-size review. The full review will be more than just an amalgamation of results--it will have its own new results of fans I've left out in the process (because they didn't quite fit into any of the mini round ups).

    I haven't done this previously for a variety of reasons:
    1) I really didn't know what the 'key' matchups were until AFTER the tests were completed.
    1a) The key matchups for this review were pretty clear. Today you will see the first one.

    2) With my old test setups, I was wary that I'd get done with some data, publish it, and then find a flaw in it via later testing. By withholding the data until it was all screened as a whole and randomly double checked (well, I checked the San Ace H1011 data at least 5 times), I felt more confident in the consistency and validity.
    2a) With my new test setup and the experience of testing over 90 fans prior to this round up, I feel I can screen, double check, and publish as I go.

    3) It's a lot of work to do this. By releasing the data all at the end, I can take breaks as I please. Real life can get in the way without any sort of concern over a deadline, and I can prepare certain people of certain results (for instance...I contacted Petra suggesting he order more Yate Loons before I published my review showing his were different and superior to the rest).
    3a) I plan to do all the above still. Sorry, but if I need a break from testing, I'm taking it. Each fan takes about two hours to get basic data from, plus I also warm the fans up and also do an extended burn-in to achieve data that's representative of long-term use, rather than out-of-the-box use (I mean, really...who cares how a fan performs for the first 5 minutes you have it?...the other 525,595 minutes in a year are more important).


    Testing has changed....again
    Okay, yeah...each full-size round up has its own testing procedure and testbed. I make improvements each time for a variety of reasons:
    1) attempt to speed up the procedure for my sanity.
    2) attempt to improve repeatability of...everything.
    3) attempt to have more significant data each successive test.
    4) I actually don't want results from one test compared to another.

    What does that mean?

    Well, from going from Roundup 1 to Roundup 2, I ditched the CPU temp tests. They were a massive PITA. And they didn't *say* much, IMO. I also tried to get more prevalent fans for Roundup 2, as I felt the fans in Roundup 1 were almost a hodge-podge collection that were not terribly representative of what overclockers will be using in their daily systems (or what was available for sale).

    For Roundup 3, I have the biggest change yet (IMO). I've done separate testing for Open Air Noise and Radiator Noise. No longer am I correlating Radiator Airflow with Open Air Noise. It wasn't totally useless as it was--the airflow numbers were always pertinent, and to be frank, the Open Air Noise numbers aren't typically that different from Radiator Noise numbers. But thanks to one particular fan in Roundup 3, my hand was pushed and I HAD to do the testing. More on this later.

    As for point #4, that may seem weird to dataologists (yes, I made that up, but you probably know what it means--there are many of you here at XS). But simply...the test environments were very different and frankly, the fans themselves weren't even the same. I just didn't want people thinking that one result from one test could be just dropped into the result bank of another test...so I went out of my way to make the data incongruous. The easiest way? Change the way I used to convert my recorded noise measurements to published noise data. The data didn't actually change, just the number associated with it--and I'd do it differently each time. Roundup 3 is no exception. Don't try to compare data from this roundup to previous roundups, please.


    Okay, enough bloviating
    Let's talk about fans.

    In this roundup I've tested between 4 and 6 fans, depending on how you count

    Fan 1) Scythe S-Flex E (1200RPM)
    Fan 2) Scythe Slip Stream M (1200RPM)
    Fan 3) Yate Loon D12SL-12 (1350RPM)
    Fan 4) Noctua P12 (retail sample, 1300RPM)
    Fan 5) Noctua P12 (review sample, 1300RPM)
    Fan 6) San Ace 109R1212H1011 @ 5V (yes, only 5V results in this test--no clue what RPM it's at )

    Why these fans?
    All are either tested, rated, or presumed to move approximately 50CFM. They're also the most prevalent everywhere you go on the internet.

    Two are solid performers from Roundup 2: the Yate Loon D12SL-12 (well, I actually didn't test the SL, but the SM is extremely similar as I found out in my own testing later) and the S-Flex E.

    There's the king of Roundup 2: the San Ace 109R1212H1011...but only at 5V, since that's really all that's pertinent.

    There's two new gunners: the Slip Stream M may be rated for 68.54CFM, but it's a 1200RPM fan and if I've learned anything, it's two things (); 1) manufacturer ratings can be fully ignored for both CFM and dBA and 2) RPM rating tells you a lot about what a fan can or can't do. As it turns out, the fan doesn't move 68+CFM, go figure.

    The other newcomer is the Noctua P12--and in addition to having my usual retail sample (I buy ALL of my fans...more on this later), I also have a review sample from Noctua (I don't know if they know I have it though?--it wasn't sent directly to me [or with the intent of ending up in my hands] is the short version). The review sample was made in late October of `07 and the retail sample was made in mid April of `08. Both are otherwise "new" though...they were NIB when they reached my hands. This fan promises to be a significant improvement over the previous S12 via significantly revamped design to rectify radiator performance (the S12 was a very good fan that was basically incompatible with radiators and fan filters due to its fan blade design).

    Anyway, the reason I don't test review samples is simple (especially if you've taken an Intro to Philosophy course)....while I can trust some companies to send me run-of-the-mill fans that I'd expect to perform identically to a retail sample (Panaflo, Sanyo Denki, NMB-MAT, Delta, etc.), other companies I absolutely cannot trust (SilenX, Silverstone, etc.)...and then there are the companies in the middle (Zalman, Noctua, Scythe) that I'm (rightfully) unsure of. The philosophical problem is: where do I draw a line? Any line is arbitrary so therefore I can't draw any line. This means either ALL review samples, which is already proven as a bad option....or ALL retail samples, which I do. Besides, a retail sample is very likely to be more universally indicative of retail performance.

    So why am I testing a review sample of the Noctua P12? Curiosity mostly. I have it, so I figure I might as well compare it to the one I've purchased.


    Anybody want results? Did anybody actual read all of that? God I hope so...little irks me more than having someone ask a question that's answered in the first post. It may be a lot of words, but it's important, pertinent, and it'll be the last time I say most of it as further Mini-Reviews will be mostly data/interpretation-only.


    Open Air Performance



    All fans are good here, really....there's no winners or losers. There are some important things to note, however.

    1) the review sample generally outperforms the retail sample except at 8V and 9V where the review sample acoustically goes flat. It doesn't change at all--the pitch, the loudness, nothing. I had to double check the multimeter. That said, when put on the airflow testbed, the same noise characteristics were noted, but the airflow scaling was as-expected. Hence the 'dip'

    2) the S-Flex E is the best sounding of the group. No doubt about it. YL D12SL-12 is a close 2nd. The S-Flex E also gets quiet in a hurry...at 7V it's making about the same amount of noise as the other fans do at 5V.

    3) the Slip Stream struts its stuff. Disappointingly, it never gets silent, even at 5V, but it performs well in open air and has a decent noise profile.

    4) the Noctuas sound pretty good. They're not as good as the S12s I tested, subjectively, but they're good. I'd put them in my case

    5) San Ace H1011 isn't going to be dethroned easily. Oddly, it was also the 'chattiest.' Nothing you'd notice in a case, but sitting out in an open room and compared to some great fans, you notice the slightest different and it was making a bit extra noise than I would have expected...still a wonderful showing though.


    Radiator Performance
    Things get interesting



    1) Okay, who didn't see the Slip Stream's demise coming? I know I've been harping on it for the longest time...but even this surprised me.

    1a) When first testing this fan for the Fan Filter Comparison I did, I noticed it was actually performing okay on the radiator. Airflow numbers weren't horrendous like I anticipated. The 1900RPM "SH" actually had similar airflow loss to the 1900RPM S-Flex G. I was kinda flabbergasted. Then I turned off the music, turned off the A/C, turned off the TV, turned off the loud-as-sin Xbox 360, turned off the dogs and turned off the gf and I noticed something--the Slip Streams were getting significantly louder on a radiator. Well beyond the point of turbulence noise...it was like the fan was increasing its RPM...significantly. Now I haven't tested THAT (RPM sensors I've learned to not trust, thanks ASUS, Intel, Abit, and DFI), but I figured I might as well test the noise it makes on a radiator...then I realized if I was going to be testing the noise it made on a radiator, I'd have to test all fans on a radiator for noise. No longer could I assume the difference would be negligible....thanks Scythe.

    1b) So I began testing noise on a radiator set up and....wow...my ears were right, the thing makes a ton of new and extra noise on a radiator. Whereas the Yate Loon and S-Flex basically were unchanged on the radiator, the Slip Stream acted like a completely different fan--a fan out of the 1200RPM class.

    2) In other news, the San Ace H1011 actually got quieter on a radiator It also has fairly high CFM loss all things considered...but that's nothing new, it did in Roundup 2 as well. I have a feeling its RPM is decreasing. Still at the top of the heap though

    3) Yate Loon D12SL-12 and S-Flex E are solid performers--still.

    4) The Noctua P12 didn't quite live up to the hype. It's a pretty good performer, no doubt (its superiors are outstanding fans frankly), but it's not a killer like it looks and is hyped. It may be an overaggressive blade structure causing turbulence noise that brings it down. I'll have to examine more.

    5) The review sample still has the dip, but the added noise of being on the radiator (and the increase in airflow) shallows the dip slightly.


    The end
    That's basically all I have for now. Not sure what fans will come next or when to expect the results, but I have oodles of free time this week (I think), so who knows what will actually happen.

  2. #2
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    Very nice review as always Vapor, good thing I have always recommended the S-Flex over the Slipstream for use on heatsinks/radiators, results show what we thought they would be.
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    omg vapor.

    You just proved that noctuna fan still cant compete against a yate!





    Thanks for your results. Very interesting.

    Yates seriously cant be underestimated anymore now.
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    Great review. I've been waiting patiently for this 3rd round up even if its only just the beginning.

    Well since I have a bunch of P12s already, would it be reasonable to use P12s to push and S-FLEX or Yates to pull through a MCR220?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdrom View Post
    Well since I have a bunch of P12s already, would it be reasonable to use P12s to push and S-FLEX or Yates to pull through a MCR220?
    I think that would be pretty good...an S-Flex E would be mostly 'free' in terms of noise being 5dBA less but should add a decent bit of airflow

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    Been waiting for round 3 for so long! I'm lovin it! Thank you!

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    interesting results there vapor!
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    Hoorah for the Scythe S-FDB fans. I've got three S-Flex Fs to use on my PA, i'm glad i got them.

    Cheers Vapor

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    Excellent review, Vapor. Thanks for all the hard work you've done.

    I must say, I, too, moved to the S-Flex F's a year ago....was running YL's prior to that. But after running the YL's in a horizontal position for months, I was getting rather dissatisfied with the way their noise production slowly crept up and up as they aged. The S-Flex's, on the other hand, don't seem to care what position you run them in......and almost 12 months later, they're just as quiet as they were when new....



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    The fan tester of all fan testers is BACK
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    cool. Thanks Vapor for another nice comparative fan review. Will be waiting for more installments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Open Air Performance


    3) the Slip Stream struts its stuff. Disappointingly, it never gets silent, even at 5V, but it performs well in open air and has a decent noise profile.
    I'm really disappointed from your results, compared to what was tested on silentpcreview:

    http://www.silentpcreview.com/articl...age3.html#SS-M

    The Medium speed Slip Stream is probably the most sensible choice among the five. It spins reasonably fast at full speed and undervolts well, becoming effectively inaudible at 5V. It also has a very low starting voltage of only 2.4V. What impressed us most was how smooth and consistent the fan sounded, no matter what speed it was running at. At high speeds, a typical sleeve bearing fan drones and whines, and at low speeds it ticks or chatters. We listened very carefully for increasing and decreasing bearing/motor noise as the speed was adjusted, and the difference was minimal.

    As for performance, well, it was simply the best. Of all the fans we've tested at approximately 18-19 dBA, none could match the 24 CFM the Slip Stream M pushed, not even our reference Nexus fan. Interestingly, according to various reports, the Scythe Ninja Rev. B now ships with this exact fan model. Some heatsinks do not even come with fans, so for Scythe to include their best fan with the current Ninja gives us all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings.
    Also, on silentpcreview forums, it is better rated above the P12 on radiators/filters giving more pressure than the P12.
    On their tests, they sound the best of all fans and especially, they move much more air than any other fan at same noise

    As for the S-Flex, I'll just confirum what you say and what all people relate, they are one of the best fans. The F series has the advantage of starting on very low voltage (4v), being as silent if not better than E series and having enough head if more power is needed.

    I just bought two Slipstream M fans, and I'll try to test them soon too, but nothing to compare to your tests. Just real world tests on a PSU without filters/grids
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    Awesome mini-review. I'm very happy I went with 6 D12SL-12's in push/pull for my MCR320 instead of getting 3 S-Flex E's (both because it cost a ton less and is barely any louder). Can't wait for your full round-up #3.
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    As far as I can tell, SPCR and I are (almost) basically saying the same thing.

    I completely agree it undervolts well, at 24dBA and below it's the best fan I've tested in open air--ever. Just look at my graph. It beats a Petras Yate Loon and an S-Flex E! I agree that at 5V it is effectively inaudible. Note that "effectively inaudible" is not the same thing as "silent." I could still hear the air moving. The dBA meter was picking some minor noise as well (the air moving). Take it more than a foot away from your ear and you'll be hard pressed to hear much of anything though. That is true for all the fans in this mini-roundup except the S-Flex E (where at 5.5V and below I just couldn't hear it unless my ear was basically obstructing the airflow and causing its own turbulence). I had really high expectations for this fan at 5V and it was the best-in-test at 5V from an noise-to-airflow point of view. But it wasn't silent.

    You may think that's not a big deal...but take a Mountain Mods Ascension or Duality or something else with a lot of fans and mount 12+ of these suckers. At 5v, you'll hear them. Just one is at the noise floor, but 12 of them is a whole ~10.5dBA higher than just 1--rising far above the noise floor. That's where a fan that individually falls below the noise floor is going to be important. I'd bet you won't hear the S-Flex E's at 5V. I bet you won't hear Slip Stream Ls at 7V (guess). That said...the Slip Stream M is pushing significantly more air than both of them

    In my tests of MANY Yate Loon and Panaflos...I can't get consistent enough starting voltages to report. This Slip Stream M started at 4.27V. SPCR's started at 2.4V. Their Slip Stream H started at 4.3V, maybe mine will start at 3.5V. For my M, below 4.27V it wouldn't even creek or chirp. This D12SL-12 I had for this test was the lowest starting YL I've ever seen...at around 2.2V. I've really been hard pressed to find any consistency

    I also agree the Slip Stream M is smooth and consistent, but so was the PTS YL SL (basically a Nexus)...and the S-Flex E...and the retail P12. I'd rank the S-Flex E the smoothest, YL SL 2nd, Slip Stream M a close 3rd, and the retail P12 a close 4th. None of these fans were bad in open air. Hence, "All fans are good here, really....there's no winners or losers." For the record, this S-Flex E is smoother than what I remember the previous one to be.

    As for the radiator testing....there's something going on with the Slip Streams. Like I said in my write-up "Well beyond the point of turbulence noise...it was like the fan was increasing its RPM...significantly." I've observed it on all Slip Streams. I have a hunch there's a piece of circuitry in there that says "when current changes like so-and-so, increase RPM" where so-and-so happens to be the characteristic of how current changes when a fan is put up to a fan filter or a radiator. In fact, last night I did a little research and this older thread in the SPCR forums tentatively confirms what I've been seeing: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums...ic.php?t=48336. And in correlation with Bluefront's testing...fan filters don't cause horrible airflow.

    Heck, if you ditch the noise data and go merely by CFM to voltage data for all the fans, Slip Streams fare kinda well. But the noise is what's killing it. That's why the graph is so far to the right and away from all the other fans--it's not poor airflow, it's an unexpected increase in noise.

    As for the Slip Steam M vs. the P12....if you click on my fan filter mini-review a few lines up, it trades punches in terms of airflow.

    I mean...I'm telling it like I see it here. I've actually been kind of nice to the Slip Streams considering: 1) I failed the Noctua S12s out of hand due to their ineptness on a radiator (not unlike a Slip Streams') and 2) the Slip Stream CFM ratings are almost as bogus as SilenX CFM ratings.

    Ugh, I talk too much

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    great job as usual bro....still loving my san aces you recommended to me 6 months ago
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Ugh, I talk too much
    No, you talk great and clear.
    Thanks for those explanations and links, now I see what you meant.

    On my next rig, I opted for S-Flex F series for extreme silence and power when needed. For the case, I planned a Slipstream M as intake because of the rated CFM and better behaviour behind filters than P12 when I first read on SPCR. Now, after your informations, I feel some bad.

    The second Slipstream M is meant to mod my PSU for more silence. It will be coupled to a Noctua 80mm also on the PSU

    I have one more real world question for you:

    The exhaust from my PC will be 3 S-Flex F on an integrated radiator. What would be the better intake fan for such a setup to put behind a filter and keep it silent? Noctua or Scythe S-Flex/Slipstream? I'll use two only intake fans

    Again, many thanks for your explanations
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    Ok, I read your filters review, it is a great review, really.

    I'll answer my self so: as intake, S-Flex F fan will be far better than any of the P12 or SS-M behind a filter if I well read your data, even if you didn't test the S-Flex F
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  18. #18
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    Thanks

    Maybe after Roundup 3 I'll go back and retest with dBA numbers...I feel like I should with what I've learned about the Slip Stream

    I feel the S-Flex series is as solid as it gets for...almost everything. Going into Roundup 2 I just thought they were a victim of "internet hype" but they turned out to just be really solid performers It may not be the best at everything (it usually isn't--there are no fans like that though), but it's always close and its S-FDB bearings are pretty darned good too.

    The S-Flex F also holds claim to one of the biggest dynamic ranges of performance--it can go really slow and quiet at low voltage or it can go up to 1600RPM and move ~61CFM. Most fans that move 60+CFM don't ever really quiet down fully (you've noticed this and mentioned it a couple posts up too ).

    Inferring from the lack of increase of noise on a radiator with the S-Flex E, I'd feel it'd perform great on a fan filter.

  19. #19
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    Interesting for the weak sisters, but lets get on to some fans that can MOVE SOME AIR!

    .bh.

  20. #20
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    is there a european shop that carries the same yate loons as pts, or is it a model specifically to them?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zepper View Post
    Interesting for the weak sisters, but lets get on to some fans that can MOVE SOME AIR!

    .bh.
    There's enough high cfm noisy fans in the general enthousiast market. Just go with some 120x120x38mm 3000 rpm and put some ear plugs. Above a certain level, even using a plan reactor won't give you water temperatures below ambiant

    It's much harder to find the "weak sisters" though. There we talk of real engineering quality.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Thanks

    Maybe after Roundup 3 I'll go back and retest with dBA numbers...I feel like I should with what I've learned about the Slip Stream
    i think the Slips are purely exhaust fans...perhaps you can try making them "pull" through the rad instead of trying to push and see (hear?) if there's any improvements?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by skane View Post
    is there a european shop that carries the same yate loons as pts, or is it a model specifically to them?
    If memory serves me right, there is a rebranded version of the "good" Yate Loon being sold exclusively in Europe. Maybe someone else knows what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny_ftm View Post
    There's enough high cfm noisy fans in the general enthousiast market. Just go with some 120x120x38mm 3000 rpm and put some ear plugs. Above a certain level, even using a plan reactor won't give you water temperatures below ambiant

    It's much harder to find the "weak sisters" though. There we talk of real engineering quality.
    In some builds....people are limited by how many fans/radiators they can use. If someone can only use a single PA120.3 but still wants to do G80 SLI and an OC'd quad core, they can reduce water temps by 7C by going from three D12SL-12s to three UK3s. Granted the noise is WAY too much for me, but some people can certainly tolerate/accept it (God bless them).

    Everyone's noise tolerance and/or performance requirements/desires are different....at every level of noise or airflow, there are going to be good fans and bad fans. That's why I'm testing. Having a lot of fans available makes a purchasing decision harder, IMO. I think the one real case where testing isn't useful (to a buyer) is when there is only 1 available fan at the desired performance level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navanod View Post
    i think the Slips are purely exhaust fans...perhaps you can try making them "pull" through the rad instead of trying to push and see (hear?) if there's any improvements?
    Noise doesn't change...

    I've said it before (though not in this thread)...I have a good feeling Scythe introduced the Slip Stream and built-for-radiator Ultra Kazes at almost the same time for a very good reason.

  24. #24
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    the nexus 120 we have here is a rebranded yate loon iirc, but it spins at only 1000rpm.

  25. #25
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    Yeah, I'm thinking of another one....it's really unassuming. Seen a few members ask about them over the past year or so.

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