R700 pics

[Shintai]

Can you explain why it's AFR at fault and not synchronization of output frames?
I fail to see how the actual rendering method affects stuttering

AFR and sync is one and the same thing since AFR doesnt work without sync. Hense the issue.

[Crankybugga]

Agreed. I've been using SLI/CF solutions for the last 9 months and I have yet to notice any stuttering or screen tearing. A bunch of hypochondriacs the lot of you are

Same here
Using 3870X2 since release and havent seen this micro-stuttering that all these nvidia fanbois are whining about, and they will have never used a 3870X2
Crysis, COD4, Grid, Dirt, Sega Rally revo and list keeps going with games ive never seen this so called crippling disease that multi gpu's generate, probably a nvidia trait, but that means i will never ever experience that

[Chickenfeed]

You need to watch it there Cranky as your verging on ignorant fanboyism yourself.

As for the issue at hand, it happens with *all* current multi gpu setups, 3870x2 included. It varies in severity and most people won't notice it unless they make a point to look out for it and even then its usually not a show stopping issue. It is more prevalent at lower framerates which has been mentioned and this is largely why it isn't noticed much in most cases, as multigpu configurations usually result is high framerates.

I've used both 7900GT SLI and now 8800GTS 512s for the last 6 months and never have found it to be all that noticeable. I've also played around with some 3870/X2s for a few weeks and it was the same deal, it's there but I honestly wasn't irritated with it. People are blowing this *WAY* out of proportion and I think there are some severe cases of OCD here....

Yes it would be nice if it didn't happen at all but I personally don't find it to be a that big of a deal like many of you seem to think it is. People have used multigpu for years now and it seems that not until recently that this came to everyones attention so it sounds like more of an excuse not to go multigpu than anything.

[oohms]

If the stuttering is *that* bad you could try changing the name of the executable to one from a game in which AFR is not used by the ATI/Nvidia drivers.

[Crankybugga]

You need to watch it there Cranky as your verging on ignorant fanboyism yourself.

Thats fine by me, but you wont find me in nvidia threads spouted garbage like this thread has attracted

[cadaveca]

Well, when it comes to stutter, I definately am not an nVidia fanboi, please feel free to check my hwbot to verifiy

Anyway, video of stutter in Crysis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SXeR0torc

NOw, if it doesn't exist, please kindly explain what's going on? You seem to know all teh answers, Cranky, so what's the story here? I'd love a fix if you have one..

[STEvil]

it would be better described as micropausing by that video.

I've had macropausing.. it was driver related.. both on ATi and nVidia.

[Crankybugga]

Well, when it comes to stutter, I definately am not an nVidia fanboi, please feel free to check my hwbot to verifiy

Anyway, video of stutter in Crysis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SXeR0torc

NOw, if it doesn't exist, please kindly explain what's going on? You seem to know all teh answers, Cranky, so what's the story here? I'd love a fix if you have one..

What resolution is that, what drivers are used, what chipset, what cpu, what RAM, what PSU, what are vga temps etc etc
I have no fix to offer other than buy a 4000 series X2.

[adamsleath]

i didnt notice anything. (in that youtube video)

i think you have to make sure you enable microstutter in catalyst


:|

spouted garbage like this thread has attracted

Agreed. I've been using SLI/CF solutions for the last 9 months and I have yet to notice any stuttering or screen tearing. A bunch of hypochondriacs the lot of you are
Same here
Using 3870X2 since release and havent seen this micro-stuttering that all these nvidia fanbois are whining about, and they will have never used a 3870X2

^-well that's reassuring; what drivers are you running?

hypochondriac, hope so, but im really turned off multigpu solutions when i hear about problems.

also dont know whether it has occurred with nvidia sli.

you could try changing the name of the executable to one from a game in which AFR is not used by the ATI/Nvidia drivers.

you are suggesting problem may be in specific sli/cf profiles? anyway i see the logic...maybe

[cadaveca]

it would be better described as micropausing by that video.

I've had macropausing.. it was driver related.. both on ATi and nVidia.

Yeah, I have to totally agree. But it's a good example of what to look for. Behavior such as this can all be classified as stutter to me...measured framerate does not accurately depict displayed framerate onscreen.

I've yet to get possession of my new place, so I only have Mass Effect, Crysis, and my Steam titles to play ATM...I chose crysis becuase the disc was in my drive already, and after reading Cranky's post, I quickly snapped a video. I could make many more vids showing many issue like this, and other strange behavior when running multiple cards. I can throw more vids up in the next couple of weeks...but I gotta move and get unpacked first!

In regards to drivers...all of them do it. I've tried every driver that supported Crossfire since day 1, have been running Crossfire X850's, X1900's, X1950's, HD2900's, HD3870x2's, and now 4850's(until 4870's come, and then 4870x2's).

Cranky, in regards to specs, ASUS Maximus Formula SE, RD600, XBX1 and 2, MSI P35, ASUS P5K, DFI BloodIron, E6600 @ 3.6ghz, E8400 @ 4.25, Q6600 @ 3.6ghz, QX9650 @ 3-4.5ghz( less cpu speed= less stutter), Ram doesn't matter (got all versions of DDR2, promos, elpidia, samsung, Hynix, Micron, 1-8gb makes no difference), Enermax Galaxy 1000w DXx, PPC Crossfire 750 (red one). XP Home, XP pro, Vista 32 and 64, nothing matters. In Crysis, I will say that this problem is less @ 16:10/16:9 resolutions in comparison to 4:3(which the video was shot in, 1280x1024). Whole system is water cooled, nothing tops 40c.

THere's no way there's a cpu/gpu limit here....low res for the video, and higher res plays much better. It's realyl does seem driver realted, and I'm sure it has to do with either memory management, or traffic scheduling, as common resolutions exhibit this behavior far less than un-common ones...1680x1050 is nice, 1920x1200 is running into gpu limits, 1440x900 is like butter, but jaggy.

Beleive me, I'd love nothing more than if issues like this were not a reality.

I've spent alot of money on hardware chasing decent rendering on my monitor...the big bastard is so dman fantastic, and so friken' crappy at teh same time...

[metro.cl]

Now what i'm wondering is how much is its TDP HD 4870 has 160Watts, so this is 320Watts? how much can you lower with some tweaks? 20Watts?

[Crankybugga]

i didnt notice anything. (in that youtube video)

And yet you persist, without knowing what it is you whine about.

^-well that's reassuring; what drivers are you running?

hypochondriac, hope so, but im really turned off multigpu solutions when i hear about problems.

also dont know whether it has occurred with nvidia sli.

Ive use ATi drivers as they are released.
If your turned off multi gpu's, then do us a favour and go buy a gtx280.
So despite what others have stated in this thread your unsure whether this described problem effects nvidia?

[villa1n]

Yeah, I have to totally agree. But it's a good example of what to look for. Behavior such as this can all be classified as stutter to me...measured framerate does not accurately depict displayed framerate onscreen.

I've yet to get possession of my new place, so I only have Mass Effect, Crysis, and my Steam titles to play ATM...I chose crysis becuase the disc was in my drive already, and after reading Cranky's post, I quickly snapped a video. I could make many more vids showing many issue like this, and other strange behavior when running multiple cards. I can throw more vids up in the next couple of weeks...but I gotta move and get unpacked first!

In regards to drivers...all of them do it. I've tried every driver that supported Crossfire since day 1, have been running Crossfire X850's, X1900's, X1950's, HD2900's, HD3870x2's, and now 4850's(until 4870's come, and then 4870x2's).

Cranky, in regards to specs, ASUS Maximus Formula SE, RD600, XBX1 and 2, MSI P35, ASUS P5K, DFI BloodIron, E6600 @ 3.6ghz, E8400 @ 4.25, Q6600 @ 3.6ghz, QX9650 @ 3-4.5ghz( less cpu speed= less stutter), Ram doesn't matter (got all versions of DDR2, promos, elpidia, samsung, Hynix, Micron, 1-8gb makes no difference), Enermax Galaxy 1000w DXx, PPC Crossfire 750 (red one). XP Home, XP pro, Vista 32 and 64, nothing matters. In Crysis, I will say that this problem is less @ 16:10/16:9 resolutions in comparison to 4:3(which the video was shot in, 1280x1024). Whole system is water cooled, nothing tops 40c.

THere's no way there's a cpu/gpu limit here....low res for the video, and higher res plays much better. It's realyl does seem driver realted, and I'm sure it has to do with either memory management, or traffic scheduling, as common resolutions exhibit this behavior far less than un-common ones...1680x1050 is nice, 1920x1200 is running into gpu limits, 1440x900 is like butter, but jaggy.

Beleive me, I'd love nothing more than if issues like this were not a reality.

I've spent alot of money on hardware chasing decent rendering on my monitor...the big bastard is so dman fantastic, and so friken' crappy at teh same time...

totally off topic.. but you play using a controller?! how do you aim?! lol. you dont find a mouse much more accurate?

[cadaveca]

Just a way to show that the directional button was pressed all the time, and having full view of the screen. Had it plugged in because I've been playing GRID and Trials2 with it

[Crankybugga]

Yeah, I have to totally agree. But it's a good example of what to look for. Behavior such as this can all be classified as stutter to me...measured framerate does not accurately depict displayed framerate onscreen.

I've yet to get possession of my new place, so I only have Mass Effect, Crysis, and my Steam titles to play ATM...I chose crysis becuase the disc was in my drive already, and after reading Cranky's post, I quickly snapped a video. I could make many more vids showing many issue like this, and other strange behavior when running multiple cards. I can throw more vids up in the next couple of weeks...but I gotta move and get unpacked first!

In regards to drivers...all of them do it. I've tried every driver that supported Crossfire since day 1, have been running Crossfire X850's, X1900's, X1950's, HD2900's, HD3870x2's, and now 4850's(until 4870's come, and then 4870x2's).

Cranky, in regards to specs, ASUS Maximus Formula SE, RD600, XBX1 and 2, MSI P35, ASUS P5K, DFI BloodIron, E6600 @ 3.6ghz, E8400 @ 4.25, Q6600 @ 3.6ghz, QX9650 @ 3-4.5ghz( less cpu speed= less stutter), Ram doesn't matter (got all versions of DDR2, promos, elpidia, samsung, Hynix, Micron, 1-8gb makes no difference), Enermax Galaxy 1000w DXx, PPC Crossfire 750 (red one). XP Home, XP pro, Vista 32 and 64, nothing matters. In Crysis, I will say that this problem is less @ 16:10/16:9 resolutions in comparison to 4:3(which the video was shot in, 1280x1024). Whole system is water cooled, nothing tops 40c.

THere's no way there's a cpu/gpu limit here....low res for the video, and higher res plays much better. It's realyl does seem driver realted, and I'm sure it has to do with either memory management, or traffic scheduling, as common resolutions exhibit this behavior far less than un-common ones...1680x1050 is nice, 1920x1200 is running into gpu limits, 1440x900 is like butter, but jaggy.

Beleive me, I'd love nothing more than if issues like this were not a reality.

I've spent alot of money on hardware chasing decent rendering on my monitor...the big bastard is so dman fantastic, and so friken' crappy at teh same time...

It looks like you have no hardware probs causing that problem, maybe im not noticing due to gaming mainly 1650 or 1920.
It does appear as if res is too high causing the variations in speed, but we know thats not the case. Do the fps drop when this is happening?
I wonder if todays LCD monitors are adding?
Does it with crt i spose?
But dont beat yourself up over that prob dude, just grab the new X2 when released like the rest of us who enjoy the fastest cards, if only for a little while

[ryboto]

Now what i'm wondering is how much is its TDP HD 4870 has 160Watts, so this is 320Watts? how much can you lower with some tweaks? 20Watts?

Well, the board itself will consume some power, and you're not using an entire second board, so the TDP is going to be less than double.

[cadaveca]

It looks like you have no hardware probs causing that problem, maybe im not noticing due to gaming mainly 1650 or 1920.
It does appear as if res is too high causing the variations in speed, but we know thats not the case. Do the fps drop when this is happening?
I wonder if todays LCD monitors are adding?
Does it with crt i spose?
But dont beat yourself up over that prob dude, just grab the new X2 when released like the rest of us who enjoy the fastest cards, if only for a little while

Well, hotfix driver fixed GRID alot, it's still there, but by and far less perceptible(was using DiRT .exe name to get Crossfire working in 8.5 and 8.6), so while it is an issue that plagues multi-gpu platforms, it is an issue that I know will be resolved in the future...3870's are affected by this the most, so I truly think I may not be far off in my assumption of the cause.(I'll just step out here now and say the same happens on my 8800U SLi rig, but nowhere to the same degree as shown in the video, and not in Crysis...at least not in a way that I notice it as much).

Well, the board itself will consume some power, and you're not using an entire second board, so the TDP is going to be less than double.

While this may be the case, case and point would be the 3870x2...bridge chip consumes power too, and is not present on single cards, also, higher data flow to two cards over one slot creates a higher draw through the pci-e slot for chipset communication(double the data means double the power draw..yes still slightly less, but still double the bus traffic). "R700" will most likely NOT be named 4870x2...unless they are purposefully binning chips for these card(more than possible, chips are out since like March).

[Chickenfeed]

Now what i'm wondering is how much is its TDP HD 4870 has 160Watts, so this is 320Watts? how much can you lower with some tweaks? 20Watts?

A TDP of 160 is likely the total board power not the die itself. The X2 should consume a decent amount less than 2 4870 512s. My guess would be in the 250-280 range.

[adamsleath]

And yet you persist, without knowing what it is you whine about.

because problems obviously exist,
and youve just instigated more whining
go check out the 4850 cf thread and see if you can actually help
with the problems.

your 3870 works great; that's just super; plenty of people around who are experiencing problems for one reason or another.
im curious and interested to know the solutions to the problems - PRIOR to buying into it.

..and i do get a larf out of things that dont work, perhaps because ive been down the sli road and i thought it was garbage.

[Sparky]

i didnt notice anything. (in that youtube video)

Uhh I saw it clear as day

[adamsleath]

well, i assume it is or else there would be no point in posting it.

but who and how to solve his problem?

If your turned off multi gpu's, then do us a favour and go buy a gtx280.
So despite what others have stated in this thread your unsure whether this described problem effects nvidia?

and no, im not really interested in arguing; im more interested in the solutions to multigpu problems.

and i think gtx280 is too expensive/overpriced.

and yes im thinking about multigpu...but i want to guarantee that i do not run into problems.

or else i would not be viewing this thread.

just trolling for the hell of it.

go buy a gtx280

go try and peddle somewhere else; there are plenty of wanna be 2-bit-salesmen around

why dont you go and buy a couple of 4850's

[mcbalaban]

Uhh I saw it clear as day

Ok, I might be totally wrong, but that stutter seemed in perfect sync with the gun-swing (weapon-bob) resulting from the character using legs to walk instead of wheels.

Could it then be that this micro-stutter is the result of the game strangely simulating the walking motion? (The in-game view being fixed to the character model and so on...) I mean, try strafing in real life and you should see some micro stutter as well, right? Probably the same for forward walking, only the human brain smooths it out for ya'. (The same function, though, is not active when you're sitting in front of the PC. )

That's progress for you. I remember Wolfenstein 3D "glided" through the nazi chambers really smoothly....

[shiznit93]

This arguing about microstutter reminds me of the bull that always comes up when someone says how the human eye can't see over 30fps or 60fps, depending on which idiot is saying it that week. Bottom line is, not all eyes are created equal and not everyone is sensitive to the same things. I know people who use a 60hz CRT 8 hours a day 5 days a week and see no flicker while I can't even look at one for more than a few seconds without going crazy. People use the default mouse settings in windows their whole lives while the first thing I do when using a different computer is disable acceleration. At the same time you have people who say that 60fps is the most you will ever need while I see and feel a difference up to 120ish and maybe even more (i use at least 120hz for first person shooters). Just because you don't see or feel the microstuttering (or whatever you want to call it), does NOT mean it doesn't exist and that it doesn't bother others. When we are spending hundreds of dollars on these GPUs, we have every right to want them to work how we see fit.

[cadaveca]

Ok, I might be totally wrong, but that stutter seemed in perfect sync with the gun-swing (weapon-bob) resulting from the character using legs to walk instead of wheels.

Could it then be that this micro-stutter is the result of the game strangely simulating the walking motion? (The in-game view being fixed to the character model and so on...

I thought the same too, but know better as my 2900's stutter, but nowhere near as bad, and 1680x1050(higher res than the vid, which was 1280x1024) plays fine, without that "stutter". I'm sure many people could pipe up and tell you that this is not behavior of the game...

[mcbalaban]

@shiznit93 & cadaveca

Sure. No problem.

Just my ...