Needing some Residential Electrical Help.....

[Naja002]

Any Electricians in the House?

I've pretty much finished up the plumbing end of my project here:

Yes, Another Car Radiator Thread....Major 56K Warning!

Its up and running. Problem is: Its current electrical supply is a 100Ft extension cord. That cord is plugged into a circuit--that I don't know what all else is drawing power from it. Basically, I just need to run power from the meter box outside--to the out-building.

I've installed circuits before. I'm not new, but I'm not an Electrician either. I have a 60amp breaker box and a 60amp switch for the out-building. I really have 1 main question that I'm a bit uncertain about, and I need to know: What is Safe and what is legal!


Here's the meter box--Outside:



Here is the inside:



With a few lines added:



RED: The yellow terminal wires connect at the bottom of the 200amp breaker and then loop up and connect at the top.

GREEN: My question is: Can I just connect up to the yellow terminals and run to the switch and breaker box? Or, do I need to install another breaker next to the 200amp that's there? What's Legal? What's Safe?


I have 1x15amp and 1x20amp breakers for the 60amp breaker box. I only expect to be pulling ~250w (or less) 24/7. But I do have 3x 4' flourescent shoplights (80w each--only need one most of the time), but I don't expect to use them much. And an air compressor (~20gallon) that will only run as needed--which will be every 2 months or less.


Can anybody point me in the right direction......?

[twilyth]

I'm not an electrician, but I was curious. Wouldn't it be better to put an additional breaker in your existing breaker box and run a wire from that? Otherwise, the only breaker you'll have on the line is the 200amp and that sounds dangerous. Even if you put a breaker on the new line, there is still the chance of a short between the 200amp breaker and the out building breaker.

Are you even allowed to such things on your own? In NJ I'm pretty sure that you're required to use an electrician. In cases where you can do things yourself, you're still supposed to get them inspected afterwards.

[RyderOCZ]

You cannot attach to the meter box, at least not in this state. That would have to be done by the Power company.

You can, run a new circuit in the house, using a 220V breaker of your choice and some good heavy cable out to the shed. Then install the box out in the shed with other breakers to distribute the power.

[Sparky]

You must attach a line from your breaker box in your house. You cannot attach to the meter box like that, not only is it illegal to do so but highly dangerous.

How far is the main panel from the out building?

[Naja002]

Ok, slow down folks.....I'm not sure you are understanding what I am saying/wanting to do.....

I'm not an electrician, but I was curious. Wouldn't it be better to put an additional breaker in your existing breaker box and run a wire from that? Otherwise, the only breaker you'll have on the line is the 200amp and that sounds dangerous. Even if you put a breaker on the new line, there is still the chance of a short between the 200amp breaker and the out building breaker.

Are you even allowed to such things on your own? In NJ I'm pretty sure that you're required to use an electrician. In cases where you can do things yourself, you're still supposed to get them inspected afterwards.

I have a 60amp breaker box with a 15 amp breaker and a 20 amp breaker that will go into the out-building. Meter Box>Switch>60amp breaker box>appliances. I'm not looking to wire up a 110 outlet directly to my meter box or anything like that.....

You cannot attach to the meter box, at least not in this state. That would have to be done by the Power company.

You can, run a new circuit in the house, using a 220V breaker of your choice and some good heavy cable out to the shed. Then install the box out in the shed with other breakers to distribute the power.

With an electrician friend, we connected to it as you see for the main power supply/breaker panel. AFTER the meter is the resident's responsibility. I'm not looking to connect to the meter--what you see in the pic is AFTER the meter. That's on me, not them.....

You must attach a line from your breaker box in your house. You cannot attach to the meter box like that, not only is it illegal to do so but highly dangerous.

How far is the main panel from the out building?

Ok, see my reply above. The run is only about 15' linear feet--not a big deal, but really doesn't matter anyway. The breaker panel inside here is FULL--Yes, completely. I could remove a 20amp breaker and replace it with a twin 20amp breaker--but that's not really the best idea. I might go that route to simply this, but i'd really rather not.

I'm not so sure what is so dangerous about it. The yellow terminals are connected to the 200amp breaker on the "Off" side. I trip the 200amp breaker and---there's no juice.

[Movieman]

We don't know one another but I will speak as if we're old friends.
I want to see you here alive and healthy long term so please, spend the money and have a lisenced electrician come and do this the right and legal way. It will cost more but that cost is minor to your sleeping better and all the other factors that I'm sure I don't have to include.
Please..
Thanks for reading.

[[XC] Hicks121]

Electrician here bro!!! Got msn? yohanthe1 at sbcglobal dot com


I need the Milbank part # off the meter socket.

edit: Ok found the socket, yes you can add a single or 2 pole or single pole breaker in that box no problem.

[Naja002]

To add to the above, this is what's going inside the out-building:

Breaker box and switch:
















I understand everything from the meter box on......my only question is: Do I need to add another breaker inside the meter box? Or, can I connect directly to the yellow terminals......?

[Naja002]

Ok, its sorted. Got it--No sweat. Thanks everyone for your concern, but I can do this--its really not a big deal.....

It'll get done some time between tomorrow and tuesday!

Many Thanx!

[[XC] Hicks121]

Ok we got him sorted out. He can add up to 4 branch circuit breakers off that box.

Naja, dont forget to pull a ground man!!!

[Naja002]

Ok we got him sorted out. He can add up to 4 branch circuit breakers off that box.

Naja, dont forget to pull a ground man!!!

Yeah, that's the part with the metal plates for my shoes and the metal cap,.......right?

[Sparky]

OK I got confused there, I thought you were wanting to hook up an outlet directly to those studs in there. Sorry about that.

[Naja002]

OK I got confused there, I thought you were wanting to hook up an outlet directly to those studs in there. Sorry about that.

No, not an outlet.... I wanted/needed to know if I needed another breaker in there or if I could wire up directly to those yellow terminals--then to the switch, breaker box, etc. in the out-building.

After Hicks explained that those spots are for normal, everyday breakers (like in your inside panel)--it all started coming together. I took a breaker out there and checked--Yep, sure enough--He's right. Won't be a problem at all.....

Life is Good!

[[XC] Lead Head]

So curious, are you just going to tie into those lines driectly, or just throw in a 60-100 amp breaker, and then run the lines to your switch?

[Naja002]

So curious, are you just going to tie into those lines driectly, or just throw in a 60-100 amp breaker, and then run the lines to your switch?

Tossing in a couple 20 amp breakers, but tying into the lines was the question that I originally had. The spaces next to the big 200amp breaker are for normal everyday breakers--so, that's what's going in there. I was going to use a 20 and a 15 in the out-building, but I just got back from Lowes and decided on 2 20amp circuits. So, 2x 20amp breakers are going into the meter box, and 2x 20amp circuits are going into the breaker box inside the out-building. It will be just as easy to run the 2 separate circuits (1 run of pipe) from box to box as it would be to do it with 1 run of wire. Costs a few dollars more, but that's cool.


Scratching my head and wondering why I even need the breaker box in the out-building---seems like the breakers in the meter box and the switch in the out-building would be enough......hmmmmm Any thoughts on this....?

[[XC] Lead Head]

You shouldn't need the breakers in the building, the switch should be more then enough. The only thing to consider though is that the distance between your buliding and the box, the further the box is away, you'll have to compensate with thicker wire. You may also need to adjust breaker size accordingly

[Movieman]

Let's have a big cheer for Hicks!

[Naja002]

The total length of wire from meter box to switch will only be ~25ft, 30Ft max. I picked up 12/2 w/ground. Will handle the 20amps and the length is short enough not to be an issue.

Inside the building I expect 2 runs of wire from the switch box of 25' or less.

I don't think there are any issues, or reasons to need the 2nd breaker box.....

Thoughts?

[[XC] Lead Head]

I personally wouldn't want to send 20 amps through 12 guage at 30 feet. Most of the wiring in my house is only 15 amps, and that runs on 12/2 w/ground.

[Movieman]

I personally wouldn't want to send 20 amps through 12 guage at 30 feet. Most of the wiring in my house is only 15 amps, and that runs on 12/2 w/ground.

12/2 is perfect for a 20amp line.
That's what it is designed to do.
15amp circuits are fine on 14/2.
30amp is 10/2 for 110v and 10/3 for 220v
also a 30ft run is nothing.
Think about the lengths of runs snaked through your house from the panel to a 2nd floor bedroom or in an apartment house from the panel to the 4th floor.
Non issue.

[Naja002]

12/2 is perfect for a 20amp line.
That's what it is designed to do.
15amp circuits are fine on 14/2.
30amp is 10/2 for 110v and 10/3 for 220v
also a 30ft run is nothing.
Think about the lengths of runs snaked through your house from the panel to a 2nd floor bedroom or in an apartment house from the panel to the 4th floor.
Non issue.

Thank You My understanding is the same. Most importantly though, I only plan on pulling ~250w 24/7 on one circuit.

The other circuit will have 2 motion detector lights (at night), 1-3 4' flourescent shop lights (80w each), the occassional power tool and the air compressor that I rarely use ( every couple of months). Its extremely unlikely that both motion detector lights, all 3 flourescents and the air compressor willing be running while I'm using some power tools!

The 12/2 is rated for the 20amp, but I don't expect to be using much of its ability at any given time. In reality--its a bit of overkill, but better to have too much power available then not enough!

Do we agree that I really don't need the breaker box inside the building? I have the switch to cut power in the building and the breakers in the meter box....That enough?

[[XC] Lead Head]

Dunno man, all the 15 amp circuits on my house are run with 12/2, we only have like 2 20 amp circuits, and I'm pretty sure those are on 10/2, although I suppose I'm a bit paranoid as many people I know (including my grandfather) are master electricians, and they always preach always go bigger then what you need.

Really the only reason to have a breaker box within the building itself is just for convienece, if you want to turn off one circuit, but not the other.

[RyderOCZ]

15 amp here are 14/2 and 20 amp are 12/2

D'oh.. Dave said it, LOL.

[Naja002]

...and they always preach always go bigger then what you need.

I understand and agree with that principle, but that was my point above: I really don't expect to be using anywhere near 20amps on either circuit, so in reality--I am going bigger than I need.....

Really the only reason to have a breaker box within the building itself is just for convienece, if you want to turn off one circuit, but not the other.

That's actually a very Good reason in my case. But I can also just shut off the power at the specific breaker in the meter box. The switch is 2 pole, so the "on" breaker would still be getting juice. The circuits will be very simple and easy to remember, so that won't be an issue. Right now, it looks like I'm just going to return the breaker box and breakers for it.

[Naja002]

Ok, I just thought that I would update this thread. The 2 circuits to the out-building are installed and operational. Please do not try this stuff at home unless you are certian of what is what and what you are doing!

I still have 2x 20amp circuits to run a few feet into this room. Thank You all for Your prior concern. With Hicks help--it was a breeze. He stuck with me all the way via email and msn. Answered any question I had--regardless of silly or just being sure, etc. Major Props to You, Hicks!


Here's some pix:

First, I had to convince myself of one thing:


I'm a Tiger!

I'm a Tiger!
I'm a Tiger!

Once psyched--I was ready to roll........


Here's the start point:



What it looked like before I started:



So, I ran the wire (2x 12/2 w/gnd) and 3/4" conduit from the meter box into the ground:



Under ground ~15':




Then up into the out-building and into this switch box (disconnect):



Close-up of the wiring inside the disconnect--black in top, black out bottom, white to white and ground to the ground bar:




2 Circuits out of the disconnect--1 to a junction box that Y's out to the left and right, 1 to the homemade strip outlet:



Close-up of the Y-junction box and HM strip outlet. The HM strip outlet is: GFI>outlet>outlet>outlet>Lightswitch for switched outlet:



From the junction box, the Y to the left runs over to another junction box then up to a motion light and over to a switched outlet:



And to the right for the same setup on the other end. This way I have light regardless of which door I enter and have motion lights for the outside at both ends:


I will be adding light switches to the motion light boxes in order to "program" them--now and in the future. I will be mounting 4' double bulb fluorescent light to the 2x4s above each door, so I have light as soon as I enter. I have a 3rd one that will be plugged into the switched outlet on the HM strip.

So, after running the circuits and getting everything installed--it was time to hook it all up to the meter box:


And this is what it currently looks like:



I'll be installing the other 2 circuits this week, so I went ahead and pulled the 2 blanks out.......

Now as long as the meter-reader guy doesn't mess with me.......

Hicks---I really can't Thank You Enough! Very Cool!