ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[GAR]

I understand ATI is going to beat G92, but the phrase too little too late comes into mind here............ RV770 is being released 10 months after G92 and now is matching performance and beating it by a bit....... am i the only one who isnt impressed with this???? and im not a fan of slapping 2 cards together and calling it the fastest single card on the market, you might fool the average joe but not the knowledgeable techie......if a game doesnt scale well in a dual card setup, then your getting 1/2 of what you paid for..........i really wish there was competition for the GTX 280, now i will be forced to pay $600+ for a top end card.............( i will hold off a bit, 9800GTX is running all my games @ 1920x1200, but later in the summer i will get a new card, and it will be the top single chip card, that i will get)

[LordEC911]

I understand ATI is going to beat G92, but the phrase too little too late comes into mind here............ RV770 is being released 10 months after G92 and now is matching performance and beating it by a bit....... am i the only one who isnt impressed with this???? and im not a fan of slapping 2 cards together and calling it the fastest single card on the market, you might fool the average joe but not the knowledgeable techie......if a game doesnt scale well in a dual card setup, then your getting 1/2 of what you paid for..........i really wish there was competition for the GTX 280, now i will be forced to pay $600+ for a top end card.............( i will hold off a bit, 9800GTX is running all my games @ 1920x1200, but later in the summer i will get a new card, and it will be the top single chip card, that i will get)

8 months...
Also don't count your chickens before they hatch, or in this situation, dismiss them.

[GAR]

8 months...
Also don't count your chickens before they hatch, or in this situation, dismiss them.

Trust me bro, ATi has no match for nVidia in a single card setup......the rumors about the GTX 280 are true ;] it is one hell of a power house.

[003]

8 months...
Also don't count your chickens before they hatch, or in this situation, dismiss them.

Much longer than 8 months if you use the G80 as a base... as the G92 is basically a G80 with a die shrink.

[Shift]

damn I wish I had some money

[LordEC911]

Much longer than 8 months if you use the G80 as a base... as the G92 is basically a G80 with a die shrink.

Then why are we not counting R300 as a base for R600?
You simply don't do that...
He said 10 months from G92 to Rv770, which is not the case.

[003]

Then why are we not counting R300 as a base for R600?
You simply don't do that...
He said 10 months from G92 to Rv770, which is not the case.

Because the R300 is a totally different (classic, in a sense) architecture. The R600 was pretty much built from the ground up, and each successor to it thus far has been based on its same architecture.

If you want to be really anal, the R600 is technically the successor to the R500 GPU which is inside the Xbox 360, which WAS built from the ground up to be the first unified shader architecture.

[LordEC911]

Because the R300 is a totally different (classic, in a sense) architecture. The R600 was pretty much built from the ground up, and each successor to it thus far has been based on its same architecture.

If you want to be really anal, the R600 is technically the successor to the R500 GPU which is inside the Xbox 360, which WAS built from the ground up to be the first unified shader architecture.

Eh follow the traces...

Anyways, dating G92 by G80 is ridiculous.
By your thought process RV770 came out in May 2006?

[003]

Anyways, dating G92 by G80 is ridiculous.
By your thought process RV770 came out in May 2006?

No. The G80 was a significant architecture re-haul compared to the G70; the G92 compared to the G80 was no such thing.

By my thought process, the RV770 comes out in June or July or August or whatever. It is really only a tweaked R600, though, if that is what you were implying.

You need to do some reading up on the recent GPU architectures used by ATI and nvidia.

ATI has not come up with anything "new" since the R600; nvidia since the G80 (although that will change with the GT200).

[Chickenfeed]

By my thought process, the RV770 comes out in June or July or August or whatever. It is really only a tweaked R600, though, if that is what you were implying.

You make a good point. Even if the R700 has more shaders and better memory bandwidth/greater quantity, it is still based on R600 as you've said so it is only tweaked at best. I'd label it as a refined design at best. No doubt the cards will sell well due to their price point but I too wish ATI would have put something completely new out the door this year.

[003]

Or hell, at least max out the R600 architecture and give it 32 ROPs as well, as the R600 can support up to 32 ROPs and 32 TMUs.

Unfortunately, I think someone else pointed out what it looks like they are doing. My guess is there "next gen" card after the RV770/R700 will be another R600 refresh, with 32 ROPs, and by then nvidia would have god only knows what. If they had doubled the ROPs now, they would have had a very good fighting chance against nvidia in all areas of the market, especially at their pricepoints.

[LordEC911]

No. The G80 was a significant architecture re-haul compared to the G70; the G92 compared to the G80 was no such thing.

By my thought process, the RV770 comes out in June or July or August or whatever. It is really only a tweaked R600, though, if that is what you were implying.

You need to do some reading up on the recent GPU architectures used by ATI and nvidia.

ATI has not come up with anything "new" since the R600; nvidia since the G80 (although that will change with the GT200).

Or hell, at least max out the R600 architecture and give it 32 ROPs as well, as the R600 can support up to 32 ROPs and 32 TMUs.

Unfortunately, I think someone else pointed out what it looks like they are doing. My guess is there "next gen" card after the RV770/R700 will be another R600 refresh, with 32 ROPs, and by then nvidia would have god only knows what. If they had doubled the ROPs now, they would have had a very good fighting chance against nvidia in all areas of the market, especially at their pricepoints.

I think the problem is...
#1 You are implying I don't know what I'm talking about.
#2 You don't/haven't followed the GPU industry for very long.
#3 You seem to think that R600 didn't come out in May or that RV770 isn't being released in June.
#4 You seem to think that G200 differs from G80.
#5 You also hold the misconception that R600 needs more ROPs.

I think I hit the "problem" right on the nose.

[Bo_Fox]

Yep, I'm gonna buy the RV770XT to replace my awesome 8800GTX---

1) If the RV770XT is at least 50% faster than the 3870, and *without* the AA bug (thus even more than 50% faster), it should spank both the 9800GTX and even the 8800 Ultra in most benchmarks. And 1GB of GDDR5 memory is both faster and bigger.

2) The RV770XT won't require an 8-pin power connector, thank goodness. I hope I'll be able to power it with my FSP Booster X3 300W add-on PSU, since it's still powering some of my fans and stuff with a reverse 6-pin PCI-E to molex adapter. I actually think it will draw even less power than an 8800GTX--and be very close to an 9800GTX, maybe within 10% or less.

3) My 8800GTX just does not overclock well. Now, my overclocking needs will probably be much more satisfied with the RV770XT!!! 75% greater memory bandwidth, 50% more TMU's, 50% more shaders, and maybe 20% higher GPU clock speed than 3870XT's without volt-modding it--time for overclocking to 900+ MHz, baby, without the AA bug for ATI resurrection, FTW!!!

Hey--before you start flaming, I'm not an ATI fanboy (I've usually always had one from Nvidia and one from ATI in both of my computers, and now have 2 8800GTX's in both since ATI did not please me enough for the past year).

[Calmatory]

Don't people understand or do they not want to understand that these companies can not make "something new" this fast? Making "something new" takes YEARS. They are just humans afterall and just doing their job, not any damn robots. No, Nvidia can not make "something new" in 12 months, neither can ATI, or anyone else. Just look at CPUs. Why isn't AMD making "something new" already, instead of sticking to K10? Aye, you got it right, because they can not make it so fast. They have to use the old and improve it until they have something new available.

ATI is focusing on the mid-range more than in the high end. They could've made RV770 bigger, hotter and faster if they wanted to, but they didn't. Why? Mostly because of the yeilds thus costs, and X2. Same reason why we aren't going to see GT200 GX2 cards. Imagine the 450W TDP.

I am not sure why Nvidia wants to release the monster cards, as they take up some less than 1% of the market share. It is PR, I understand that, but how many people go actually to read reviews to see who is better? Those who read the revs understand that it doesn't really matter who has the fastest card, and those who aren't reading them do barely know what they are buying.

[bill_d]

and i thougt Nvidia was gnomes and ati was elves

[NH|Delph1]

regards

It's supposed to say Q3, me brain failed >_<

//Andreas

[003]

I think the problem is...
#1 You are implying I don't know what I'm talking about.
#2 You don't/haven't followed the GPU industry for very long.
#3 You seem to think that R600 didn't come out in May or that RV770 isn't being released in June.
#4 You seem to think that G200 differs from G80.
#5 You also hold the misconception that R600 needs more ROPs.

I think I hit the "problem" right on the nose.

1. This was not my intent.
2. Irony in this statement?
3. When did I say this?
4. The G80 was an extremely scalable architecture. The G92 revisions were not a huge leap in performance from the G80, but from what we know about the GT200, it will be a huge increase in performance, so much so that the fact that it is still based on the G80 can be forgiven.
5. No, I know that is not it's weak point. However, do you really think ATI is intending to finish off the R600 architecture which they put such a large sum of money into without at least maxing it out? Perhaps, but I doubt it.

[NH|Delph1]

I'm not sure if I would call GT200 a significant overhaul. I'd say they fixed a part of the G8x/9x that was broken and threw in more of everything. Which is pretty much what ATI has done with RV770. So, none of the two chips that are coming are really "new". They're just faster and better than the previous generation, which should be enough though.

//Andreas

[adpr_02]

Hey guys, I haven't really been following this thread very diligently, but can someone tell me whether the 4850 is likely to be as good as an 8800gt or better (from what is known, of course). Thanks.

[Papu]

Hey guys, I haven't really been following this thread very diligently, but can someone tell me whether the 4850 is likely to be as good as an 8800gt or better (from what is known, of course). Thanks.

4850 should be the 770pro? and it's said to be highly overclockable

[mascaras]

4850 should be the 770pro?

yep

RV770 Pro = HD4850
RV770 XT = HD4870
R700 = HD4870X2

regards

[adpr_02]

Very Very nice, and it's going to cost somewhere around 200$?

[Nuker_]

Hope someone can post a benchmark soon... Who cares about nda.

[conzymaher]

Hope someone can post a benchmark soon... Who cares about nda.

lol get owned by a lawsuit to keep us :banana::banana::banana:s happy

[zerazax]

lol get owned by a lawsuit to keep us :banana::banana::banana:s happy

Well someone's gotta take one for the team