ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[Macadamia]

Even tho thats highly likely. Remember Intel can use its own foundries and design the chip and process to the max performance. Plus a lead. Imagine Larabee on a High-K metal 45nm process today. Inferiour product on a better process can change the tide.

Like that helped nV30.

[Nedjo]

Imagine Larabee on a High-K metal 45nm process today...

..."You may say that I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one..." [u]Imagine[/b] by John Lennon :p

Inferiour product on a better process can change the tide.

Absolute nonsense!
Proof1: Netburst @ 65nm didn’t change tide against K8@90nm, design of the new architecture did!

Proof2: RV670@55nm didn’t change tide against G92@65nm, the new design of RV770 will…

Proof3: NV35@130nm didn’t change tide against R300@150nm, ‘cos R300 was superior design

The list goes on, and the point is: design always wins against manufacturing process
P.S
Oooh I see now that DilTech and Macadamia surpassed me with their reply to this dreamer theory of imaginative miracles of manufacturing process

[Shintai]

Not quite true... The Pentium D on 65nm didn't surpass a 90nm A64 x2. The Prescott didn't surpass the 130nm A64's either. Nor did the R600 surpass the G80. We also saw what happened with the RV670 vs G92.

Process can help you do more in a single chip, or lower power consumption, but it doesn't make for a better chip in all cases. Besides, by the time we see larabee, we'll see both ATi and NVidia on smaller processes than they presently are, and intel have stated larabee will be 10x the performance of their best IGP, which would only align it with the G80...

I didnt say it would do miracles. But if you are some 10-20% behind on the same process. You can catch up with a forward process. 65vs45nm etc.

P4 is also a whole other issue due to leakage at extremely high frequencies.

Inferiour product on a better process can change the tide.

For those with reading comprehension problems. Can change doesnt equal to will change.

Oh, Larrabee IGP on value Sandybridge will be about 10x of G33 with value Nehalem being some 6x. They havent disclosed any discrete GPU performance hints.

[Monkeywoman]

The Radeon HD 4850 will apparently feature 480 stream processors, a 625MHz core speed, an 825MHz shader speed, 512MB of 1143MHz GDDR3 memory, and a 114W thermal envelope. The faster Radeon HD 4870 will also have 480 SPs, but with an 850MHz core speed, 1050MHz shader speed, 1GB of 1935MHz (3870MHz "effective") GDDR5 RAM, and a 157W TDP. Both cards will also feature 256-bit memory buses and 16 raster operators, just like existing Radeon HD 3800-series models, but with twice as many texture mapping units (32 instead of 16).

WTF! separate shader domain? this is going to change ATI Overclocking for good, this will also mostlikely closen the gap with all those Nvidia optimised games...and prolly allow ATI to emulate PhysX whith all those extra shader operations.

[NH|Delph1]

WTF! separate shader domain? this is going to change ATI Overclocking for good, this will also mostlikely closen the gap with all those Nvidia optimised games...and prolly allow ATI to emulate PhysX whith all those extra shader operations.

TechReport bases its news report on the hardware-infos report, which is not correct. It's not off by much, but there are plenty of things that are not dead on.

//Andreas

[Tim]

RV770XT and PRO are 256bit

512bit internal ring


We've posted that RV770XT will be 512 but our usually very reliable sources misinterpreted some parts of the information. The card is 512bit internally as ATI has its internal ring buss memory interface but externally we are talking about the 256bit card.

Both RV770XT and PRO will be the same and they will work with 256bit memory. The RV770XT pairs with 512bit memory and the ultra high speed should help the card improving the performance but from what we know Nvidia’s GT200, Geforce GTX 280 will work with the real 512bit memory controller.

GT200 is a higher league all together and we believe that GT200 will easily beat RV770XT but at the same time, it will come with a much higher price, almost twice as high. It’s now less than a month to see these cards in action.

Source : Fudzilla

If that is true, I don't think they'll stand any chance, not even to the 260.

I predict that once again nVidia is going to rule AMD for 2008. I don't care what anyone says about price performance ratio, it's not about that, it's about maximum performance.

[LordEC911]

If that is true, I don't think they'll stand any chance, not even to the 260.

I predict that once again nVidia is going to rule AMD for 2008. I don't care what anyone says about price performance ratio, it's not about that, it's about maximum performance.

So you like comparing a ~$300 card to a +$600 card?
Good comparison...

[zerazax]

Absolute performance is pointless if no games require it. 160 fps yay.

[Calmatory]

RV770XT and PRO are 256bit


I predict that once again nVidia is going to rule AMD for 2008. I don't care what anyone says about price performance ratio, it's not about that, it's about maximum performance.

Tell me someone who really has BOUGHT 2x 9800GX2's. Yeah, friend of yours.. and another.. and another... Now, do I even have to name someoe who has bough 8800GT/GTS? Yeah, no. Get it?

Do you get the fact that they have quite the same amount of bandwidth, despite the 512-bit bus for the Nvidia card? Do you have any clue how this is possible? No?

[Leeghoofd]

Tell me someone who really has BOUGHT 2x 9800GX2's. Yeah, friend of yours.. and another.. and another... Now, do I even have to name someoe who has bough 8800GT/GTS? Yeah, no. Get it?

Quite logic as not every gamer had 600/1200 bucks to spend on a single or dual card setup... really don't get ya point there...If ya want the fastests cars out here you need to spend cash...

And untill I see real Fps numbers instead of all these rumours and techtalk noone can tell how these cards will perform, all these nice numbers mean zilch to me as I want to see it perform on my screen not on the stickers on the box... and that counts for both teams...

I just buy the fastest thing out there and keep that for a year (or two) If the card is green or red who cares.... I just want something to replace my 8800GTX...

[zerazax]

While I do tend to buy the fastest thing out there, I also do so with the reason that it's legitimately worth that cost. If not for the fact that I got my 8800Ultra, I would've gotten the 8800GTX simply because paying $200 more for a marginally faster card (in all the games I care about anyways) would not have been worth it. For the same reason that if a 4870 kills every game out there, then spending $300 more on a GTX280 or whatever to play the game at 120 fps vs. 80 fps is going to be hard to justify. It all depends on just how much of a gap the cards bring in games and how big of a gap the pricing is.

[FischOderAal]

Any word on the layout of the HD-4850/HD-4870 ? Last thing I read (dunno where) was that the PCB will equal the one of the HD-3870.

[Scimitar]

Absolute performance is pointless if no games require it. 160 fps yay.

I can name quite a few games that could use some more horsepower...







Etc....

[ownage]

Any word on the layout of the HD-4850/HD-4870 ? Last thing I read (dunno where) was that the PCB will equal the one of the HD-3870.

No, the pcb will be different. I believe this old picture is still the only pcb picture out on the internet.

[Macadamia]

Probably a nice jump without AA/AF, and a bigger one with. Which should be pleasant... enough for the G92b (which should be bigger AND slower at the same time)

Now that 8xAA seems usable, watch some G92 cards drop

[mascaras]

Qimonda Wins AMD as Partner for Launch of New Graphics Standard GDDR5

Qimonda AG, a leading manufacturer of memory products, today announced that the company has won AMD as launch partner for the new graphics standard GDDR5. Qimonda already started mass production and the volume shipping of GDDR5 512Mbit components with a speed of 4.0Gbps to AMD, a leading global provider of innovative processing solutions in the computing, graphics and consumer electronics markets.


GDDR5 will become the next predominant graphics DRAM standard with a tremendous memory bandwidth improvement and a multitude of advanced power saving features. It targets a variety of applications, starting with high performance desktop graphic cards followed by notebook graphics. Later on also the introduction in game consoles and other graphics intensive applications is planned.

“We are very proud to supply AMD with GDDR5 volume shipments only six months after first product samples have been delivered,” said Robert Feurle, Vice President Business Unit Specialty DRAM of Qimonda AG. “This is a further milestone in our successful GDDR5 roadmap and underlines our predominant position as innovator and leader in the graphics DRAM market.”

“Qimonda’s strong GDDR5 roadmap convinced us to choose them as a primary technology partner for our GDDR5 GPU launch,” said Joe Macri, Sr. Director, Circuit Technologies, AMD. “Both the early availability of first samples and volume shipments added great value to the development and launch of our upcoming high-performance GPU.”

More information on Qimonda’s GDDR5 products is available at: http://www.qimonda.com/graphics-ram/gddr5/index.html

Qimonda

http://www.techpowerup.com/60869/Qim...ard_GDDR5.html

regards

[Tim]

Tell me someone who really has BOUGHT 2x 9800GX2's. Yeah, friend of yours.. and another.. and another... Now, do I even have to name someone who has bough 8800GT/GTS? Yeah, no. Get it?

Do you get the fact that they have quite the same amount of bandwidth, despite the 512-bit bus for the Nvidia card? Do you have any clue how this is possible? No?

So you like comparing a ~$300 card to a +$600 card?
Good comparison...

Since when is this Xtreme Budget Systems? Maximum performance is what we need.

[DeathReborn]

I didnt say it would do miracles. But if you are some 10-20% behind on the same process. You can catch up with a forward process. 65vs45nm etc.

P4 is also a whole other issue due to leakage at extremely high frequencies.

Atom 1.33GHz (45nm) has a lower CPU score than a Celeron 353 900MHz (90nm) and that's with a worse companion chipset aswell. Process will always be beaten by a superior architecture, even if it's only clock for clock.

R600 was ATI's Netburst, RV670 was it's Core Duo & RV770 is their Allendale. Still no Conroe yet though.

[FischOderAal]

No, the pcb will be different. I believe this old picture is still the only pcb picture out on the internet.

[IMG]http://img.techpowerup.org/080522/rv670vsrv770_pcb.jpg[./IMG]

wasn't it proven to be fake?

[Macadamia]

Since when is this Xtreme Budget Systems? Maximum performance is what we need.

Yes, on a crummy 680i?

[GoThr3k]

seems like everyone is forgetting that the GT280 will have to fight the 4870X2

[Shintai]

Atom 1.33GHz (45nm) has a lower CPU score than a Celeron 353 900MHz (90nm) and that's with a worse companion chipset aswell. Process will always be beaten by a superior architecture, even if it's only clock for clock.

R600 was ATI's Netburst, RV670 was it's Core Duo & RV770 is their Allendale. Still no Conroe yet though.

You forgot the wattage and size. Process is not always beaten by a superiour architecture. Unless the architecture is superiour enough to ofset the process gain.

If I can take 2 different GPUs. A is 20% faster IPC than B. But A is a 1Ghz GPU on a 65nm process like B is on 65nm. If I make GPU B on a 45nm process and make it run at 1.3Ghz. Then B wins. Very simple. If B still run under 1.2Ghz A wins. Asume they are all same TDP.

[Calmatory]

Since when is this Xtreme Budget Systems? Maximum performance is what we need.

I find it way more extreme to take max out of the low-end hardware than doing DICE/LN2 runs twice a month with parts which cost +$400 each.

[largon]

FischOderAal,
Just the version with the pasted GPU is fake. AFAIK, there's no reliable info on what the card with the dummy GPU actually is.

[Beefy22]

RV770XT and PRO are 256bit
If that is true, I don't think they'll stand any chance, not even to the 260.

I predict that once again nVidia is going to rule AMD for 2008. I don't care what anyone says about price performance ratio, it's not about that, it's about maximum performance.

The RV770XT is paired with GDDR5 thus has comparable BW to GT200... 512bit external bus would greatly increase cost(both for the manufacturer and consequently consumer) due to PCB complexity. 512bit + GDDR5 = overkill; that would hurt sales and margins.

So you like comparing a ~$300 card to a +$600 card?
Good comparison...

Wow... So only $300 for the RV770XT, have any proof to back those claims? I thought it's MSRP was $349 which thanks to etailers price gouging is always more than that...

Yes, on a crummy 680i?

HAHA, love the cheap shot. I think you might be taking this a little to personal...

I find it way more extreme to take max out of the low-end hardware than doing DICE/LN2 runs twice a month with parts which cost +$400 each.

While a smart move for the budget limited, that's about as extreme as watching paint dry.