Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[msgclb]

I have the app set open in the notification tray and show four cores but I only get four green icons, not text.
Hovering over the first icon pops up a window with all four core temps displayed, over the others it just says "core 1", "core 2", etc.

How can I get text to display instead of the icons?

Did you read the problems that I had and what it took to fix it?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1023

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1025

When I rebooted my core temps were displayed in the task bar.

[clokker]

Well son of a gun...that did it.

Kind of weird, even a change to the text color requires a reboot to initiate.
I expected that closing/reopening the program would do it but noooo...it takes a full reboot.

Oh well, it works.

[unclewebb]

Nice, legible block font for the temps in the tray. Easier to read than CoreTemp, at least on my display.

Anyone running this program is obviously interested in their temps so I figure I'd start with an easy to read font. If anyone wants a small font about the size that CoreTemp uses then I will create a small font option as well.

And, the full spec now appears for my CPU. Instead of Intel Quad, it says Intel Quad QX6700.

I always get angry when programs don't seem to recognize my hardware properly! Blame this problem on Intel. For some reason, on some of their processors they decided to leave out the model number in the processor name string of information that is burnt into the chip. Start up CPU-Z and look in the Specification window and compare your processor to other users. RealTemp took the easy way out originally and simply extracted the model number out of this data. When I saw some recent screen shots I decided to go back and add some code to help out the suffering B2/B3 owners. If anyone else has a processor that isn't recognized properly yet then just PM me a CPU-Z / RealTemp screen shot so I can get it fixed up.

you forgot to make a note in the INI that I need to reboot to get this new version to work!

That's why we call this beta software! You guys get to test things out before I release this version to the masses over on the main TechPowerUp site. I noticed that you are using Vista. I didn't need to re-boot when using XP. The coding technique I used probably dates back at least 10 years so I'm just happy that it works. Could you try disabling the tray icon feature by using IconShow=0, running the program, exiting and then change IconShow back and see if the icons display properly. At the moment I'm going to blame all your problems on your mail icon. It looks suspicious!

I was playing around with the latest version of RMClock 2.35 and I was having problems with it leaving icons in the tray and not closing down properly. RealTemp doesn't seem to have any issues that way but I still need to go back and test every imaginable thing a user can do to try and screw things up.

Hybrid SyntaX: Your E6600 is an early revision B2 processor which uses a TjMax=85C. All temperature monitoring programs agree with this so you won't see much difference from one program to the next.

Your processor only has 2 cores so there is no need to use either:
Idle2=1
Idle3=2

Those are for adjusting a Quad core processor. You need to spend some time reading over the documentation before setting any Idle calibration factors. It fully explains what needs to be done to increase the accuracy of RealTemp at idle.

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

clokker: Are you using Windows Vista as well? I might have to use more than 2 colors to increase compatibility.

[clokker]

Yes, Vista x64.

[msgclb]

That's why we call this beta software! You guys get to test things out before I release this version to the masses over on the main TechPowerUp site. I noticed that you are using Vista. I didn't need to re-boot when using XP. The coding technique I used probably dates back at least 10 years so I'm just happy that it works. Could you try disabling the tray icon feature by using IconShow=0, running the program, exiting and then change IconShow back and see if the icons display properly. At the moment I'm going to blame all your problems on your mail icon. It looks suspicious!

I was playing around with the latest version of RMClock 2.35 and I was having problems with it leaving icons in the tray and not closing down properly. RealTemp doesn't seem to have any issues that way but I still need to go back and test every imaginable thing a user can do to try and screw things up.

It's probably Vista that's still in beta! This testing was done on the Gigabye system running Vista x32. The EVGA system is currently down for modifications.

IconShow=0

No icon in the tray. I had to kill the process in the Task Manager.

IconShow=3

It's not the mail icon!



If i put the mouse over the first Task Manager icon the tooltip shows the core temps, the second one's tooltip shows Core1 and the third one is the real Task Manager.

ADDED: The proper core temp icons returned after I rebooted.

[Hybrid SyntaX]

Hybrid SyntaX: Your E6600 is an early revision B2 processor which uses a TjMax=85C. All temperature monitoring programs agree with this so you won't see much difference from one program to the next.

Your processor only has 2 cores so there is no need to use either:
Idle2=1
Idle3=2

Those are for adjusting a Quad core processor. You need to spend some time reading over the documentation before setting any Idle calibration factors. It fully explains what needs to be done to increase the accuracy of RealTemp at idle.

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

thanks for reply i'll read that tomorrow and i'll tell you the results if i change something

[unclewebb]

It's probably Vista that's still in beta!

I'm glad you said it! The only thing I can think of is if I try using a larger color palette that might fix this bug. On XP you can switch back and forth without ever having to re-boot.

IconShow=0 No icon in the tray. I had to kill the process in the Task Manager.

Could you try the above test again. I wrote some code so that if you choose not to use a tray icon, when you minimize, it should minimize to the Taskbar and show the temps like it used to do during the early days of RealTemp. Some people like that feature. That's how it works in XP. You shouldn't need to kill the process in the Task Manager.

IconShow=3 It's not the mail icon!

Thanks for that pic. Maybe I should forward it to Mr. Gates as well.

You always get in trouble when you try to write efficient code.

Could you try logging off and then back on next time when this happens or maybe even hide the Taskbar / Tooltray area by dragging it lower off the screen and then back up again. If anyone finds a work around for this they'll win a prize!

[msgclb]

StartMinimized=1
TaskBar=1
IconShow=0

There's no indication that Real Temp is running except in the Task Manager's Processes tab. I noticed that the form flashes momentarily and then it disappears. It's not in the Application tab and no icon anywhere on the Taskbar. I checked all the tooltips just to make sure it wasn't masquerading in one of them.

I checked the Auto-hide taskbar and it's not under the taskbar. I logged off and on. Nothing changed. I next tried these settings.

StartMinimized=0
TaskBar=1
IconShow=0

This works as I think you designed. It looks like StartMinimized=1 causes the app to start minimized with no icon.

I did a Google search for..

vista taskbar source code

and came up with 553,000 hits. Ok, so most of them will be bogus.

[Unrealer]

E4300 lapped @ 3.2Ghz 1.42v (only testing what vcore i need...)
Ambient temp 23º
TRUE lapped + Noctua P12 (@ 1350rpms)

Core temp: 66º
Real Temp: 51º



I measured the temp @ TRUE fins and shows 29ºC...

So, the problem is the IHS contact with the cores...

[unclewebb]

msgclb: Thanks for your testing. It's easier fixing bugs when they are repeatable. I think going to more colors for the temp display in the tray should fix the other RealTemp / Vista problem. I'll send you a fresh beta hopefully this weekend.

Unrealer: What problem are you talking about? RealTemp is accurately reporting your load temperatures and it says 51C. That's perfectly normal considering the core voltage you are using. What is your room temperature? You need to retire CoreTemp or at least use a -15C TjMax adjustment. TjMax=100C is not right for an E4300 or any other processor for that matter.

[pitadotcom]

e4300 needs ++ or +2 calibrations. of TjMax -10 in coretemp. my bigtyphoon VX is a few degree higher than ur true but im only on 334x9 stock volts

[unclewebb]

Here's a similar processor to your E4300 at the same core voltage and similar speed with a Tuniq Tower.
Not surprisingly, the temps are pretty similar too when running OCCT.



I thoroughly tested this E2160 and I am 100% confident with TjMax and the temps RealTemp displays for this processor. This picture was just as OCCT ended it's stress test. The temps in RealTemp had just started to drop from their peak while OCCT had not dropped yet. At the maximum temperature reached, the idle calibration of +1 has no effect on the readings.

msgclb: Thanks for spotting that StartMinimized bug. It was so well minimized that it couldn't be found except in the Task Manager!
I did a quick update to fix that problem so now I can start working on the Vista compatibility issue.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip

[Hybrid SyntaX]

i've read the whole documentation and i went to bios to underclock my cpu and so on...
i couldn't find any lower volt than 1.27 also i couldn't give it over -20% host burn in

these are the only options that i have ...
Host Burn-in Mode Type <Positive>
Host Burn-in Mode Percentage [0]
PCI Burn-in Mode <Default>
PCI Express Burn-in Mode <Default>
MCH Voltage Override <Default>
Front Side Bus Voltage Override <Default>

btw i gave host burn in mode percentage 17% and put host burn in mode type on Negative so its -17% and my clock was something like 2000~ Mhz but the temperature was almost same !! (it seems that volts do a big role in temp)

however is there anotherway ? or a way that i can do the same job with 2 Ghz

[Unrealer]

Unrealer: What problem are you talking about? RealTemp is accurately reporting your load temperatures and it says 51C. That's perfectly normal considering the core voltage you are using.

I think 51C is so good and 66º is a bit high...

What is your room temperature?

23º.

Unrealer: You need to retire CoreTemp or at least use a -15C TjMax adjustment.

e4300 needs ++ or +2 calibrations. of TjMax -10 in coretemp.

So, -10 or -15

[SiGfever]

My Vista Ultimate x64 will show one thing in the systray (frozen temps) but the program will show the real temps (no pun intended) if I maximize the program. It also shows the changes as they occur but the systray remains frozen. These are 100% loaded temps at a 24.83c ambient. Also both sensors at idle tested at an 11.

[ReDRaiN]

Hi ppl,i having big temp problems whit mi E8400.

Iddle temps X6 multi and default(1.05cvore) =coretemp=56/50,Realtemp=46/40. im using ultra 120 xtreme,and i test Ifx-14 too and bad temps again .

Any idea?


Sorry for mi bad ennglish

[rge]

E4300
Core temp: 66&#186;
Real Temp: 51&#186;

I measured the temp @ TRUE fins and shows 29&#186;C...

So, the problem is the IHS contact with the cores...

The max gradient from core temp to cpu temp is ~5C.
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf

At load, Real temp is reporting core temps as 3C higher than your cpu temp, which is reasonable, (assuming your cpu temp is not horribly inaccurate). Coretemp is reporting 18C higher core than cpu, which is not plausible as it is 13C higher than intel has measured.


Also on max load, the gradient from core to Tcase temp can be ~20C or more (see explanation below and note Tcase is IHS temp, not cpu temp which is between cores). You are measuring fins which is coolest part of block and across tim2 from IHS and thus cooler than even Tcase temps.

The gradient temperature from core to Tcase = Tjunction-Tcase = theta(core to case) * TDP (Intel's formula)
So at full 65W load (if tested under intel parameters), Tjunction-Tcase (gradient from core to case at 65W)=.37C/W*65W=24C
(or at 4W, undervolted, underclocked idle = .37*4=1.5, and remove heat sink and less than 1.5C)

Though the gradient is going to vary based on cooling equipment, load, and everything else...51C at core and 29C on fins of block is perfectly reasonable and nothing to shrug or frown about, unless you looked up the thermal conductance of each material, worked out all the additive resistances across each change in materials, and then tested each formula for accuracy, as intel does, and proved something radically different for your set up.

I think 51C is so good and 66&#186; is a bit high...

Based on what?

[unclewebb]

SiGfever: When you post a screen shot next time of your frozen temperatures can you also include the tray menu in your screen shot. RealTemp lets you display either the Core Temperature in real time in the System Tray or you can display the Maximum, Minimum or Average temperature in the Tray area. Is it possible that you have the tray menu set to display one of those temps. If the check mark in the menu is beside Core Temperature then it should move equally with the Core Temperature readings displayed in the main RealTemp window.

There are also a few issues with the tray icon and Vista compatibility. I should have a fresh beta ready in a few hours for Vista users to try.

I think 51C is so good and 66&#186; is a bit high...

I agree. That's why you should be using RealTemp and retire CoreTemp. All testing points to TjMax=85C for these processors so I don't know why you would think about using anything else. Start with that, run a 1600 MHz - 1.10 volt test as outlined in the docs and if you need a +1 or +2 correction to get your idle temps up to about 5C over your room temperature then do that. This isn't really rocket science. My load temps around 53C to 54C were confirmed with an IR thermometer at the exact same 1.424 core voltage that you are using running the same test. My Tuniq isn't quite as good as your cooler so your temps are a couple of degrees cooler. This all makes perfect sense so start believing what RealTemp is telling you.

[SiGfever]

SiGfever: When you post a screen shot next time of your frozen temperatures can you also include the tray menu in your screen shot. RealTemp lets you display either the Core Temperature in real time in the System Tray or you can display the Maximum, Minimum or Average temperature in the Tray area. Is it possible that you have the tray menu set to display one of those temps. If the check mark in the menu is beside Core Temperature then it should move equally with the Core Temperature readings displayed in the main RealTemp window.

There are also a few issues with the tray icon and Vista compatibility. I should have a fresh beta ready in a few hours for Vista users to try.



I agree. That's why you should be using RealTemp and retire CoreTemp. All testing points to TjMax=85C for these processors so I don't know why you would think about using anything else.

Here ya go... Server 2008 x64 Enterprise does the same thing.

[pitadotcom]

So, -10 or -15

srry i shouldve said i run mine on ++. u can use + as did unclewebb on the 2160. they're only wat 2.5degs different so no matter what, at least its alot better than the readings with TjMax100.

[unclewebb]

Thanks SiGfever for your testing.

This doesn't happen in XP 32 bit. When the tray icon is incorrect, is the pop up temp information correct?

I re-wrote the tray icon code and I'm hoping it cures the Vista problems. If not then I guess I'll be looking for a plan B.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip

This is version 2.53. Download and copy RealTemp.exe into your main RealTemp directory.

[Unrealer]

With Tjunction 85

Ambient Temp : 23&#186;

Idle Temp: 20&#186; (1.2Ghz 1.2v)


Full Temp: 33&#186; (1.8Ghz 1.3v)


TRUE + Noctua P12 @ max


20&#186; @ idle is imposible cause i have 23&#186; of ambient temp................

[msgclb]

I re-wrote the tray icon code and I'm hoping it cures the Vista problems. If not then I guess I'll be looking for a plan B.

This is version 2.53. Download and copy RealTemp.exe into your main RealTemp directory.

The StartMinimized=0 is fixed. That was the good news.



The mail icons is what Real Temp is using. As you can see Core Temp has figured it out and I know Everest does as well. Real Temp is probably using the last icon displayed in the taskbar. Plan B?

I'll be gone for about the next 12 hours.

[rge]

With Tjunction 85

Ambient Temp : 23º

20º @ idle is imposible cause i have 23º of ambient temp................

Correct.

So with Tjmax 85, load temps are now correct, but idle temps are wrong. As Unclewebb has stated in the very first post of this thread and intel has confirmed, idle temps are nonlinear and inaccurate, not until reaching higher load temps are they linear and accurate. That is the part you clearly do not understand.

So two possible ways to fix idle temps.

If you want accurate idle and load temps, read Unclewebb's post above again, and adjust the idle calibration to read above ambient.

Or if you prefer to have accurate idle temps but inaccurate load temps that read 5C too high, change tjmax to 90.

But now you know why intel will not release tjmax figures, look how much confusion it has caused just you.

[SiGfever]

Thanks SiGfever for your testing.

This doesn't happen in XP 32 bit. When the tray icon is incorrect, is the pop up temp information correct?

I re-wrote the tray icon code and I'm hoping it cures the Vista problems. If not then I guess I'll be looking for a plan B.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip

This is version 2.53. Download and copy RealTemp.exe into your main RealTemp directory.

The program temps seem accurate and change as I do work so I would say yes. I have not put my Raytek on the CPU but as you know emissivity makes it tough to get an accurate reading on a shiny surface. A flat black CPU would be ideal.

I will install the program later, test it, and get back with you.
Thanks again for all your hard work.