Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

[KTE]

KTE: I hate to disagree with you Bro, but on my chip there have been a number of times where upping the vHTT to 1.20 (+0.05) wasn't enough, but bringing it up to 1.25v (+0.10) smoothed everything out...

253x10 @ HTT of 1.20v = Unstable
253x10 @ HTT of 1.25v = Stable

1.3v didn't seem to offer anything extra, but I'm thinking that is getting close to the limit of my cores (2.53 Ghz)...

On 9600BE 1.225V is stock HT so when I mean +0.05V it's to 1.275V
Even when I don't mostly need it till after 2520MHz HT. For 9500 I ran 1.25V past 230HT too.

BTW Oldguy932, Phenom behavior I remember witnessing and reading about with FX60 B2 oc'ing long ago, so I searched up and found the thread. These tips apply to Phenom pretty much too, same HT, same about tRC, tRFC for high HT/clocks, same with using multi is better at cold and so on: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=90768

[tictac]

msi k9a2 rev2.0 available on msi site.

[Daveburt714]

On 9600BE 1.225V is stock HT so when I mean +0.05V it's to 1.275V
Even when I don't mostly need it till after 2520MHz HT. For 9500 I ran 1.25V past 230HT too.

My bad man...

When you get a chance, would you mind posting the stock V's for the 9600BE, for all us Phenom Old timers with the standard version?
It would probably help my OC and maybe some others too...
Just the BE's stock V's would be cool.

I have some extra cash (tax check.. ), and I'm seriously thinking about buying a BE. This one seems to run very stable at 250x10x8x8. I'd just like to get some opinions on whether you folks think it's worth it, or should I just wait for B3?...

[jonspd]

wait on b3 no doubt it's only a month or so away. Not worth it IMHO.

tictac it's been on there site for a while now...

edit for BTW gonna do some fsb testing for a few days...

also I think stock vcore on the 9600 is same as 9600be correct me if I'm wrong.

[KTE]

msi k9a2 rev2.0 available on msi site.

Has anyone seen one on retail yet though? I wonder what it is, I think it required another layer because of some hardware limitations.

When you get a chance, would you mind posting the stock V's for the 9600BE, for all us Phenom Old timers with the standard version?

On both mine:
200x11.5 = 2300MHz 1.250VID 1.232V
200x9 = 1800MHz IMC 1.250V 1.232V
200x9 = 1800MHz HT 1.225V

I have some extra cash (tax check.. ), and I'm seriously thinking about buying a BE. This one seems to run very stable at 250x10x8x8. I'd just like to get some opinions on whether you folks think it's worth it, or should I just wait for B3?...

Depends on price around your end, the purpose and the need. What are you hoping for with it which your 9500 doesn't give you?

This is what I've been running all day today [next to no oc options in BIOS, so AOD]: Boot>AOD>Load Profile



It can go higher. Just finished 3 hours of gaming on two cores and video encoding on the other two. But I will say, take our experimentation notes wisely. Let me just quickly gather them on my 9600 BE for ya:

2nd Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=815

Boots 1.28V 2.7G, benches perfectly 1.325V 2.7G each time

2nd Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=822

3GHz/2.9GHz 1.35V boot into Windows each time but freeze very quickly.
2.756G 1.320V idle/1.288V +6hr P95 stable, no freezes etc. Bootup each time, run, bench, test, no problems.

3rd Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/....php?p=2724551

225 x 12 = 2.7G @ 1.25VID 1.305V BIOS/1.336V idle/1.320V load
2.025G NB @ 1.25VID
2.025G HT @ 1.2V
DDR2-1200 5-5-5-15-28-75 2T @ 2.2V

11 Days later: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=977

CPU 1.212VID 1.20V idle/1.192V load (200 x 13) 2.6GHz
IMC 1.312V (200 x 12) 2.4GHz
RAM 1066 5-5-5-15-11 2.0V

12 Days later: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=996

CPU 1.225VID 1.280V idle/1.272V load (200 x 13) 2.6GHz
IMC 1.325V (200 x 12) 2.4GHz
RAM 1066 5-5-5-15-11 2.0V

13 Days later: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1010

Above settings is over 26hrs testing stable verified.

13th Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1011

2.8G (200x14) boots easily at 1.35V but it's unstable.
1.40V = unstable
1.450V = unstable
1.50V = unstable
1.56V = unstable

(207x13.5) 2.794G next;
1.40V = unstable
1.450V = unstable
1.488V = unstable

(206x13.5) 2.78G next;
1.40V = unstable
1.450V = unstable
1.488V = unstable

2.756G passed 1.392V 5hr and then, whilst gaming, it froze the system = unstable now compared to before.

Today, 24th Day:

It will not boot 2.6G CPU with less than 1.3V.
Requires minimum 1.336V idle for 2.6G CPU stability.
Requires minimum 1.344V idle for 2.652G CPU stability.
It will not boot 2.7G CPU stable at less than 1.392V idle. IDT 2.7G can be stable anymore.

EDIT!
1.344V, 1.352V, 1.360V 200x13 (2600MHz) while did not fail any stability testing or usage whatsoever... after 14/8/6 hours uptime, they each randomly froze using Firefox.
Same with 2652MHz.
>2.8G has not booted at ANY volts now!
1.368V, 1.376V, 1.392V all froze after bootup for 200x13.5 = 2700MHz
Testing 2600MHz 1.376V now...

More degraded.

I'll have to test again but I'm mainly waiting for a new BIOS with AM2+ options to test max bench, max CPU, max HT, max NB, max RAM, max stable.

[tictac]

What is the best bios so far for phenom?

[KTE]

What is the best bios so far for phenom?

1.13, 1.31, P0E, P0H. Between them they have the best options.

None has everything working good and fine yet, so no single BIOS can be labeled "best" unfortunately.
1.13 is best for oc (but does have oc issues).
P0H for best AOD functioning, for stability and hardware support.

The new one or two coming should be good bits of 1.13 combined with P0H and some new options/fixes/stability issues resolved.

[tictac]

Ok thanks...
MSI got so many beta bios...

[KTE]

You're welcome.

They should have two more soooon....

Error: Installing Catalyst drivers in XP SP2 or SP3 and you get "08xxxxxx error".. it means nothing, a false code.
Resolution: You have to just go into All Users Windows profile and make a folder named Desktop. Done.

Checking Idle Stability: One easy way with Phenom is to fill the memory and then flush it. You can also standby and hibernate your system and check the idle stability pretty well.

ClockGen/SetFSB: One thing I do very often if I want a setting to reverse back to boot-up on any system, far back, is standby or hibernate. They will reset the clocks to boot-up most of the time.

AOD customization: You can hack AOD to load very quick and with minimum pages and details. I've successfully modded the files (v.basic) to load different config profiles (wrote the files with all settings) and also to only display two pages that I need, even to only display some voltages that I require and not the rest:





Works much better now. Instant load-up.

EVEREST: For those who don't know, EVEREST can CPU bench from one core to four cores by clicking Parameters:



The results you can save so they're there the next time to compare with:



You just have to run the bench, highlight the new result, click on Results and choose Add Result to User List by giving it a small description (which won't appear in the main window above):




Just wanted to make sure you guys know these basics. They're useful.

[Daveburt714]

KTE: Thanks for all the info on your BE experiences

I really don't have a need so to speak, just wanted a new toy that may perform a little better.... I wonder if AMD will release BE's in the B3 stepping?

[jonspd]

What is the lowest cpu multi anyone has used on a BE?


I would love to use AOD but I have had much better luck via bios just about all of the time...

[KTE]

I really don't have a need so to speak, just wanted a new toy that may perform a little better.... I wonder if AMD will release BE's in the B3 stepping?

A 9600 BE IMHO would do at least 100MHz more on the cores than your 9600. You have a pretty bad 9600, just like my first 9600, good for HT but not for CPU.

Plus the gain by oc'ing IMC is like an additional 200MHz in many cases, so yes, there are scenarios where its better.

B3 BE? I would guess no since the BE sort of models in the B3 step will be the FX CPU's.

What is the lowest cpu multi anyone has used on a BE?

I've had 200 x 5 using AOD v.easily, manually downclocked from 2700MHz to 1000MHz and then back up to 2600MHz again.

I would love to use AOD but I have had much better luck via bios just about all of the time...

Same here, always. Apart from now with the new BIOSes... it's close to flawless.

[jonspd]

OK

What was the lowest you could get via bios

also I'm 100% atm Y on earth would something be 100% stable at 2.7+ghz but want even idle at 2.6? this just doesn't make since there has to be a bios, driver, pll, vid flux, error causing the freeze. I don't understand I mean really it has got me so Hot I'm sticking with 10.5x245 with ram at 1:2 5 4 4 15 and 1960 on nb and ht for now as 247 freezes 246 hasn't yet but probably would and as you stated it's normally in firefox when it does.

Also noticed it's not a hard lock but more a graphics freeze as the memory and hd continue to be working I think....


Geezzzzzzzzzzzzz I would love for the new b3's to fix this problem but I don't see that correcting the issue at hand.

the fact of the matter is it's software/driver/bios issue not hardware which has got me alittle upset I guess.

[Daveburt714]

Thats wierd Jon... Although mine wouldn't even boot at anything over 2.55, so I guess it's not all bad.

I went to MicroCenter today just to look around, and they had 9600 BE's for $239. So of course I had to get one...

The guy let me look through them, so I picked out the newest one:

CAAWB AA 0750CPMW

I always had the feeling the MPMW's were weak, so now I guess I'll find out.
I'm going to install it tonight, so I'll let you all know how it does.

The cool thing was, I bought a 3850/256 there a couple weeks ago (because they didn't have any 3870's). Well now they do, an it was only $12 more than what I paid for the 3850, so I came home packed it up and traded up to the 3870... Not a bad deal for $12!

[jonspd]

coolio nice thats the latest week I've seen.

[madfaze]

The cool thing was, I bought a 3850/256 there a couple weeks ago (because they didn't have any 3870's). Well now they do, an it was only $12 more than what I paid for the 3850, so I came home packed it up and traded up to the 3870... Not a bad deal for $12!

nice!

[jesteronyer6]

Anyone have a link to the POH BIOS?

[Oldguy932]

Thanks for the link KTE. Not sure how I can really warm it up though to give it the htt clocks I had before, the heater can only do so much. Is there something in the vapo I could mod to regulate power to to make it warmer, or would that just be a dumb idea?

[jonspd]

turn the fan on the condensor down...

[Daveburt714]

This is just a preliminary update, but it doesn't look good for the new chip...

Using just the multi's the best I could get was 12.5x, with everything else stock 13x was a no go. I rebooted a number of times with CPU VID ranging from 1.20 to 1.35... Nada on 13x....

IMC looked a little better. With the CPU downclocked (matching NB multi) I managed to get it up to (219x11x11x8) or 2409Mhz on both the cores and the IMC.

BUT, as soon as I brought the cores back up, even 2250 was a no-post on the IMC... Arrrrrrrrrrg........

The HT Ref will do 250 stable, so basically, I'm right back where I was with my first chip 250x10x8x8. Granted, I had a couple months to tweak the old one but it really doesn't look like theres a whole lot more to be had. I was really hoping for at least 13x using just the multis....

Do you folks have a system for testing cores individually? AOD doesn't seem to be well suited for the task..

[aGeoM]

Anyone have a link to the POH BIOS?

Here you go.

[Oldguy932]

I'll put my BE back in to test what the guy in the link found. Not gonna promise anything though.

[KTE]

I, out of forgetfulness, chose the 1:2 800RAM option using a BIOS which didn't allow it and was stuck with no POST for many hours.

I have noticed there is a problem with Phenom and/or MSI RD790:
When you use a BIOS which only uses the 1:2 1066 mode, the system after Clear CMOS will not POST until you only install one module of RAM and POST. I haven't tried verifying if this problem occurs with BIOSes defaulting to 800RAM on boot-up.

What was the lowest you could get via bios

That was lowest with this BIOS. With another BIOS which let's you drop CPU/HT/NB/RAM/Volts it will be much much lower, i.e. 800CPU/200HT/1000NB/667RAM at low volts. I've had 0.9V at 1600 before, so it should be much lower.

also I'm 100% atm Y on earth would something be 100% stable at 2.7+ghz but want even idle at 2.6? this just doesn't make since there has to be a bios, driver, pll, vid flux, error causing the freeze. I don't understand I mean really it has got me so Hot I'm sticking with 10.5x245 with ram at 1:2 5 4 4 15 and 1960 on nb and ht for now as 247 freezes 246 hasn't yet but probably would and as you stated it's normally in firefox when it does.

Hehe, yep, same things happens here. Right now I'm using 2626 rather than 2652 which froze after 42 hours uptime in Firefox even though 2756MHz was found to be 100% stable for a 178 hours before.
Phenom freezing occurs by first, the applications freezing up (CPU data flow stops) and then the mouse and keyboard (I/O) after many movements will also freeze (so your GPU is actually last).

I would check your stability again using the exact settings you tested stable before (check for 2-3 days continuous). Look at my above posts, system degrades quick even with low volts when oc'd, especially the IMC. Running plus 1900 with insufficient voltage tends to make it degrade after 7-20 days of stress and use. Typically, that causes degrading in even the CPU and you'd need new settings to get stable.

So far, around 24 hours uptime, 2626 is going well.

Geezzzzzzzzzzzzz I would love for the new b3's to fix this problem but I don't see that correcting the issue at hand.

So would I, but... which problem does Phenom have at stock exactly

the fact of the matter is it's software/driver/bios issue not hardware which has got me alittle upset I guess.

All I can tell you is, it won't be a driver/BIOS/software issue unless it happens even at stock and for many users. The fact that my chip does it at different settings to yours and others means it's actually a CPU doing really.
It can however be a driver/software/BIOS issue if you opened or used AOD after booting. But you can find this out by booting and not using it.

I went to MicroCenter today just to look around, and they had 9600 BE's for $239. So of course I had to get one...

Wow, nice, but isn't that kinda expensive

You guys are too rich for me

CAAWB AA 0750CPMW

Well, give it some time, I'd like to see what is happening here. Initially, it would seem the earliest batches were the best. Before 0744 especially.

Not sure how I can really warm it up though to give it the htt clocks I had before, the heater can only do so much. Is there something in the vapo I could mod to regulate power to to make it warmer, or would that just be a dumb idea?

Use Chill Control to setup the boot/shutdown temps to what you'd like and set the fanspeeds low/heaters high if you want higher temps in this section. Should be good. VPLS can handle 240W heatload at around -30C, and would be dipping sub -49C with low heatloads, low heater and high fanspeeds.

Using just the multi's the best I could get was 12.5x, with everything else stock 13x was a no go. I rebooted a number of times with CPU VID ranging from 1.20 to 1.35... Nada on 13x....

Too low VID/Volts really, that's what I would expect. Try 1.40VID/Auto volts and set it to 200x13, stock all else.

IMC looked a little better. With the CPU downclocked (matching NB multi) I managed to get it up to (219x11x11x8) or 2409Mhz on both the cores and the IMC.

So, did you feed it around 1.35VID and check out if you can hit 2400MHz stable? Bench/Stability test it. You'll need much more time yet.

Do you folks have a system for testing cores individually? AOD doesn't seem to be well suited for the task..

Why not? Use P0H BIOS and AOD should work very fine, not with 1.13 though. Unless you're on Vista, then I'd not think about AOD just yet.

Unfortunately I haven't found anything but AOD for in Windows oc yet and the BIOS doesn't yet have separate core options. I know guys running the ASUS RD790 do. I am hoping MSI can get a good release BIOS out now, we've waited long enough.

AOD with P0H should work flawlessly. Unload modules you don't need and run it. I've even ran the stability tester many times without fail or problems.

One known problem is, change voltages on a separate occasion to speeds, as only one gets changed properly and the other may reset itself and give you a frozen core.

[Oldguy932]

Ok, the BE is just doing the same thing as before. Anything higher than 206*13.5 will not boot into windows. No multi higher than 13.5 will boot to windows. It mostly just restarts when it gets to the point of the os loading, but on rare occasions it shows up but then freezes. Its just purely frustrating at this point.

[Daveburt714]

Wow, nice, but isn't that kinda expensive

You guys are too rich for me

KTE, The price was the same as New Egg.. I'm certainly not rich (Tax Return). The American Dollar just ain't what it used to be $239 is actually pretty cheap for a brick&mortar store.

Too low VID/Volts really, that's what I would expect. Try 1.40VID/Auto volts and set it to 200x13, stock all else.

I raised the VID to 1.40 (@ 13x), it just continually ran the Windows boot screen but it didn't crash. It seemed like progress, so I slowly inched it up to 1.45 VID same result each time even after a couple minutes of waiting (HD activity stopped).
I finally gave it one shot @ 1.475 Vid... That resulted in a Blue Screen "Interupt Not Received on Secondary Core"

So, did you feed it around 1.35VID and check out if you can hit 2400MHz stable? Bench/Stability test it. You'll need much more time yet.

Yeah, NB VID was @ 1.35, and it was stable enough to bench as long as it was at the same multi as the cores it was good up to 2409Mhz. The latency times on the L3 cache actually didn't improve from 2000 though, strange.

Why not? Use P0H BIOS and AOD should work very fine, not with 1.13 though. Unless you're on Vista, then I'd not think about AOD just yet.

Doesn't POH have the TLB patch? Actually AOD doesn't seem to work too bad with Vista64, some of the voltage adjustments get squirley, but if you make sure they change and only do 1 at a time it's liveable...

I actually managed to hit 2.6 in AOD... It just won't boot into windows when it's set to 13x in BIOS, actually the one time I got it to run in AOD it was at 12.5x with a higher HT Ref, IIRC...

Your right it takes a while to dial one of these in, I've not lost hope, but I was hoping for better initial results....