Fans, Fans, Fans -- XS Fan Review!

[voigts]

I want to see how the Noctua NF-P12 fans stack up against the competition.

[Gray5000]

Are any LED fans included in this post? I want high performance fans but would like the aesthetics of shiney blue lights as well.

Excellent review btw

[Vapor]

Yate Loon D12SL-12 ________ Clear/Blue and Sunbeam Blue LED are the 4 LED models. All have blue LEDs

[Gray5000]

From those you mention the ones from PTS look half decent but I can't get my hands on them as I'm in the UK. From what I've seen LED Fans are pants.

[Sentential]

Huh? No Delta fans? BLASPHEMY!

[Waterlogged]

Huh? No Delta fans? BLASPHEMY!

Delta's are fine if you don't mind your comp sounding like a jet taking off from a runway at JFK . Most ppl WC/LC to get better performance while saving their hearing.

[brinox]

I want to see how the Noctua NF-P12 fans stack up against the competition.

me too... that fan looks like it has a lot of R&D put into it, i would like to see whats what

[delewin]

I am very impressed by the diligence and rigor of this extensive fan review.

So, I wish to add my thank you to Vapor for the time and effort put into this review.

I have learnt a lot and will be applying this knowledge to building my own separate water cooling box using a Cooler Master Elite 340 Micro-ATX, 2x 5.25" Bays, 2x 3.25" Bays (RC-340-KKN1) resting on its side – (Drive bays vertical) - Dimension: 195 x 370 x 385 mm (W x H x D). I will be cutting significant metal away and adding fan grills to let a lot of air into the box, prior to the fans pushing the air out, through the radiators.

I intend to add:
2 x Swiftech MCR220-QP Res Radiators in series.
1 x Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Hi-Flo Reservoir mounted vertically in one of the 3½” bays
1 x COOLPANEL2 BLACK (4 X) fan speed controller & temperature monitor mounted in one of the 5¼” bays.
4 x Zalman ZM-F3 black120mm fans (pushing).
1 x 500W power supply
ClearFLEX 60 Premium Tubing (1/2").


Based on your comments on sleeve bearings, I will be mounting one radiator on each side, thereby keeping the fan bearings in a horizontal position.

I have 2 questions.
Would I gain significant cooling effectiveness by mounting a total of 8 x 120mm Zalman fans in a push / pull configuration and running them at a slower speed (quieter)?
Or would it be a waste of money and end up more noisy?


Again thank you.

Best wishes,

David

[Vapor]

Push/pull numbers of identical fans in open air essentially have the same CFM/dBA curve as a lone fan. Maybe a slight improvement, but the noise is 'broader' (and technically less noticeable if the fans are good)

On a radiator, there is improvement in airflow, though whether those 4 extra fans give you better performance, no telling.

If you had counter rotating fans in open air, those are something (and on a radiator too)

[Boogerlad]

how could you make a counter rotating fan? can you buy one that's relatively quiet? they seem interesting.

[delewin]

Push/pull numbers of identical fans in open air essentially have the same CFM/dBA curve as a lone fan. Maybe a slight improvement, but the noise is 'broader' (and technically less noticeable if the fans are good)

On a radiator, there is improvement in airflow, though whether those 4 extra fans give you better performance, no telling.

If you had counter rotating fans in open air, those are something (and on a radiator too)

Thank you Vapor for your reply.

Can you give me some examples of "counter rotating fans, as I have not seen this in a PC application?

It has been used in propellor aircraft, such as the old "fairey Gannet"



Are you describing a situation like:

Fan 1 rotates clockwise and pushes air in direction A.

Fan 2 rotates anticlockwise and pushes air in the same direction as fan 1.

When you put Fan 2 in front of Fan 1, the blades spin in opposite directions, but the air flow is in the same direction.

This leads on the the next questions:

As all these fans are DC voltage, can you simply reverse the (wires) voltage and turn them around to achieve the counter rotating effect that you describe?

As the "pushing" surface would now be the back of the blade, the shape of the blade would have a big impact on the performance / suitability. That is, a strait, flat blade would be the most suitable for this type of modification.

In the group of fans that you tested, which ones use a strait blade or in your opinion, would be suitable for the reversing modification?

The other question follows on. These fans are originally designed to rotate in one direction. What adverse effect on lubrication / life cycle would this modification create?

If Fan A is on one side of the radiator and Fan B is on the other, can you explain why it would be advantageous to have Fan B counter rotating to Fan A?

Thank you for your informed response.

Regards,

David

[Vapor]

how could you make a counter rotating fan? can you buy one that's relatively quiet? they seem interesting.

Can't make them....the post below is a very good description of what it is.

Thank you Vapor for your reply.

Can you give me some examples of "counter rotating fans, as I have not seen this in a PC application?

It has been used in propellor aircraft, such as the old "fairey Gannet"



Are you describing a situation like:

Fan 1 rotates clockwise and pushes air in direction A.

Fan 2 rotates anticlockwise and pushes air in the same direction as fan 1.

When you put Fan 2 in front of Fan 1, the blades spin in opposite directions, but the air flow is in the same direction.

This leads on the the next questions:

As all these fans are DC voltage, can you simply reverse the (wires) voltage and turn them around to achieve the counter rotating effect that you describe?

As the "pushing" surface would now be the back of the blade, the shape of the blade would have a big impact on the performance / suitability. That is, a strait, flat blade would be the most suitable for this type of modification.

In the group of fans that you tested, which ones use a strait blade or in your opinion, would be suitable for the reversing modification?

The other question follows on. These fans are originally designed to rotate in one direction. What adverse effect on lubrication / life cycle would this modification create?

If Fan A is on one side of the radiator and Fan B is on the other, can you explain why it would be advantageous to have Fan B counter rotating to Fan A?

Thank you for your informed response.

Regards,

David

Yes, that's exactly what counter-rotating is One fan spins one way, the other in the other direction, but all moving air in the same direction. Delta's 120x120x76mm beast is a counter-rotating pair. Delta's tri-blade EFB's spin the 'wrong way' and can be paired with a regular fan for a 'super fan.'

You can't reverse the wires...the fan just won't spin (unless it's really, really old or cheap). They have control PCBs that prevent that kind of thing. Even if you could, no blade design is particularly good for reverse direction, IMO.

Why it's advantageous has to do with the fact that fans spin the air as much as they push the air. When you pair it with a fan that spins in the same direction, it can't do too much with the air other than add a little velocity in both the forward and spinning direction.

However, when you pair fans that spin in the opposite direction, one fan is forcing air into the other at a greater airspeed at the blades, and the counter-rotating fan will deflect the 'spin' into forward velocity...

Basically, think of it as a playground swing. Your daughter is swinging on it but she's not very good at leg pumping because she's 4....so you push her. You normally stand behind her and beginning pushing her just as she gets to the top--you get more leverage. That's what a counter-rotating pair essentially is. It's the ideal situation...

A like-rotating pair is like standing between the swings and as she reaches the bottom (on the way forward) you give her a push, but because she's already moving quickly in the same direction, it's basically a little extra nudge--there's not a whole lot you can add.

Putting a radiator between the fans mostly eliminates the 'spin' of the air so either way you're only dealing with the forward velocity, regardless of which fan you use, you'll get the same result. But if you want to put fans only on one side, counter-rotating is very effective if you have the right fans.

I tried a Sharkoon 2000 + Tri-Blade LE pair and had very impressive results....they both push like 72ish CFM IIRC in the open air, so they were a good pair. I was pushing nearly 100CFM in open air with the pair, and with not much more noise (3dBA since I doubled fans of the same amount of noise). On the radiator, I was pushing a whopping 90CFM or so...it was a tiny amount of loss. Most 100CFM fans drop down to around 75CFM...

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

**if this were possible** would it be better to arrange fins in angles and directions that cater to the single fan spinning the air effect? as in a spiraling fin direction pattern as the air passes through the rad core

Practically this would be nearly impossible without radically redesigning rad tubes and flow patterns.
.... IDK, just a thought seeing how we are getting all theoretical

[Vapor]

No clue really...

[ArtosDracon]

Hey Vapor,

I'm very new here but, have been working on computers for way too long. I've got a pretty serious custom project going as can be found on Anandtech Forums and I need a few fans that have high flow with tons of static pressure as the fins are really tight on the evaporator core I'm using. I've been looking at the Scythe Ultra-Kaze fans for my intakes to blow directly across the evap core but, from your review it looks like the best avialable(read no SD) would be the ZM-F3 or the D12SH-12 straight blade from petras. Do you know how the Scythe would compare to these two or have any inclination one way or the other?

Thanks,

Artos

[Vapor]

Honestly, no clue....I know the design is good for HSFs/rads just by looking at it, but that says nothing about its CFM/dBA curve or noise profile.

[louie101086]

i jusy got some ultra kazes and they blow strong with low noise

[delewin]

Hi Vapor, et al,

I had a look at the Delta web site and was literally blown away by the GFB series of counter rotating fans.

The 120 x 120 x 76.2mm @ 12V is the quietest @ 55.5dB pushing a whopping 183.92 CFM with a maximum pressure of 0.413 inches H2O.

In the Radiator Box application (2 x Swiftech MCR220-QP Res Radiators in series), imagine 4 of these monsters going flat out. The obvious plus side is that it would provide an absolute maximum Delta drop in temperature for my PC installation. The down side is at least:

1. My wife would divorce me - I do not want that.
2. There is no agent for Delta in Australia.
3. The cost of 4 of these fans plus shipping would be very significant, relative to the locally available other brands.
4. I can get the Zalman ZM-F3 black 120mm fans for just over AU$10 each.

So, this falls into the - Nice to dream about category.

Thank you again for your speedy and rapid response. I, as well as all the other people looking on, really appreciate it.

Best wishes,

David

[Boogerlad]

david, you could always get the 3 bladed LE, which is pretty quiet, and pair it up with a san ace for a super fan. it'll be quiter, but it'll be a bit weaker as well.

[delewin]

david, you could always get the 3 bladed LE, which is pretty quiet, and pair it up with a san ace for a super fan. it'll be quiter, but it'll be a bit weaker as well.

Hi Boogerlad,

The particular Delta fan [EFB 1212LE] still is rated at 34dB @ 2000rpm & 75.93 CFM.

These fans have only 2 wires (Red & Black). Are they easily adjustable for speed, via a simple variable resistance / fan speed controller?

I have found these at Sidewinder Computer Systems inc. @ US$16.95 plus International shipping??

I think 4 of these would set me back ~ AU$120. (That is not cheap for 4 fans.)


The other thing is that I want to Overclock my new PC , but not to the extreme and I will be using 2 x 240mm swiftech radiators, so I think I need to do what my title says - Temper my enthusism with the reality that I have a budget (and a wife).

Thank you for all you helpful comments.

I am learning more every day.

Best wishes,

David

[delewin]

Hi All,

For your information. Sidewinder Computers are having the Delta GFB1212VHW on special for US$39.95 plus shipping.

This fan combo pushes over 220 CFM @ 3550/3200RPM at the "Very reasonable" loudness of 59dB.

I am sorry if providing this link is a "no no". I am not "linked" to Sidewinder in any way. It is just that Vapor identified these fans as the "Best of the Best" and there is a lot of interest in this type of fan lately. I just happened to come across a supplier and at a discount.

This is the only site I have visited and therefore I do not know if this is in fact a bargain or not.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/de12gf.html

Regards,

David

[louie101086]

Since I Went From Six Apevia Fans Which Had My Load Temps All Around 55c To Scythe Ultra Kaze My Load Temps 54c 50c 57c 52c I Have Seen Some Temp Drops But My Rad Has Not Had The Proper Chance To Bleed Out Fully Still Have Testing To Do

[disruptfam]

yeah ultra kazes are good louie

[silverphoenix]

Hmm wondering Yate mediums or ultra kaze low/med. The kaze mediums I suspect are louder than the yate mediums, and I don't want to run a fan controller. If the kaze lows can provide just as much airflow as the yate mediums over a rad then the kaze's is what I'll go for.

[louie101086]

dont get the ultra kaze low thats a waste get the medium i have three and they are just as quiet as the 6 fans i had installed before and move a bunch of air jab-tech.com has them for 8.95

heres a review

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.p...e_120mm_fans/5