Lets talk breaking the HTT 230 limit on k10 here

[KeZzZu]

this is what happens when you put 11x on ht, thought i didnt change nb fid from pstates, also sp1m time is same :S odd thought something is really wrong here. 13 x worked too and pi time same except aod showing lower clocks.

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/1157/phenooc2mp1.jpg

[Tony]

Bout the best I could do with high HTT, seems not all 6400+ CPU's are equal still 380 is not to bad

New bios coming for DFI, they solved some issues already...should have it soon and will test.

[Aussie FX]

Tony try dropping your multi to 5 and go for max HTT.
On the Gigabyte I could get my 6400 to boot @ 430

[Lightman]

MSI said it's the CPU that has a problem if NB/HT ref. cannot run high speeds. The board runs above 350HT ref. and 2600MHz HT easy, so it's definitely the CPU that has NB/HT ref. limits.
I can run 240MHz HT ref, I'm running it now but I was asking about NB speed above 2GHz. How high have you benched and booted? Use AM2+ P-States to see if you can run 10x/11x/12x multi on NB and HT at the same time at 2.2GHz and 2.64GHz.

Run EVEREST cache/mem and let us know your results please.


I'm going to run X2 now aswell. Keeping the board though, becuse it's quite awesome IMO. I'm selling the 9500 and waiting for the unlocked edition because I heard rumors it's coming late this month. (?) I hope so anyway.

No coldbug on Phenoms at -18C-0C anyway, managed to try that quickly from work. Never tried lower but it makes jack difference. High HT ref./high NB will not bootup anymore.

Changing NB VID/CPU VID is impossible for me past one value either side. Maybe that's what limits it all.

Sorry KTE that I was not precise with my answer, but my GBT can't change NB multi so if I'm running HTT 240MHz then NB is above 2160MHz .

Just check GBT topic in AMD section

Here is a quick run from my XP x64 (that's why only 2503MHz... max. for x64);

[KeZzZu]

WOHOO 12k nuclearus score inc!

happy day i can boot up 8xht & nb but mobo lowers cpu multiplier to 8 so i raise them with aod back to 11x and then few mhz more to ht this is quite max what i can do with boxed ( 40 c idle... load : burning heatsink ) superpi just wont work on normal mode in vista

PS: could someone run too nuclearus and hexus pifast lets compare on same clocks!


http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?i...jahexuszd2.jpg

[Tony]

Tony try dropping your multi to 5 and go for max HTT.
On the Gigabyte I could get my 6400 to boot @ 430

had 400+ already, issue is after cmos i get the dreaded flashing cursor and no progress to Vista.

As mentioned before I have reported a few issues to DFI and im promised a new bios with some fixes soon.

It seems no one has really pushed these boards outside AMD and now we all are a few issues are cropping up.

best part is most are easy fixes in bios

[muzz]

I really think Oscar being involved is needed to help the new platform myself, so I'm really glad the DFI/Sapphire mobo's are now at least coming into the channels...
The faster the better.

Someone that knows how to dope out issues, and WILL provide new bios's to try and alleviate the problems, AND increase performance.

Some of these other companies only put out new bios when there are known issues...or when they feel like throwing a bone.

Maybe I'm wrong with that, but it sure looks like a Oscar could be an immense help for AMD Quad platform.

[Tony]

Oskar heads up a large team at DFI now, much bigger than it has been for a quite a while. he has a lot of talented guys working there including a good bios team. Just because Oskar may or may not be working on the board personally does not mean the board won't get fixed...far from it.

Remember also source code updates have to come thru AMD to Award and then onto the partners...this takes time

[muzz]

I think you misunderstood me Tony.

My thinking is as long as he's involved, things will get done.

That wasn't to say that HE himself had to do it.

I almost worded it differently, but I figured the folks here would get what I meant...

Maybe I should have just said " I'm glad the DFI TEAM is finally involved, now maybe they can find and fix the problems that plague the platform"

Sorry for the confusion.

[KTE]

MSI made it clear that there's a bug in the CPU's affecting the L3 cache/NB (TLB bug). They state that there are two effective circuits with Phenom, one powering the CPU and one the IMC/cache. If you increase the NB frequency above 2GHz by much you will most likely see the bug kick in (causes lockups just like mine). BUT there is a BIOS workaround for it in one of the performance release BIOSes and it gives a ~10% performance hit.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13741/4

Thus, we tested with an earlier revision of the MSI board's BIOS (version VP.0B7) and with the newer, patched BIOS (version 1.21). Per AMD's guidance on this issue, MSI apparently did not include a menu option to disable the workaround. In fact, the BIOS doesn't look to offer any cosmetic indicator that the workaround is in place.

I was advised to try this but expect lower performance.

As we've reported elsewhere, AMD does plan to fix the TLB erratum with a new revision of its quad-core chip due some time in mid-to-late Q1 of 2008. Once the new revision is available, the Phenom 9500 and 9600 will be replaced by the 9550 and 9650, with the -50 suffix denoting the updated silicon and higher performance. Most users will want to wait until those new Phenom models are available before paying full price for a Phenom processor or a system based on one.

But let me make it clear: MSI's technical support had absolutely NO idea what the hell they're talking about with Phenom and tried lecturing me on how A64 works saying "you obviously don't know have a clue how AMD works and need to learn and read A LOT before calling on MSI or AMD" when I explained to them my issues with their MB/BIOS and how K10 calculates clocks.

What a stupidly funny world it can be. So basically "I don't trust them at all".

VIDs are locked upwards, for Phenom 9500 the Max VID (for CPU and CPU NB) is 1.2500V. So this is the highest you can adjust via PStates menu.

Ah no wonder! Would you know why mine sets CPU VID to 1.2V and CPU VCore to 1.192V all the time at stock?

There are ways to get over maxVID of course (some boards implement VID override, some implement VID offset).
Good old volt modding can save your day too

I would do if I had plans to keep it.

this is what happens when you put 11x on ht, thought i didnt change nb fid from pstates, also sp1m time is same :S odd thought something is really wrong here. 13 x worked too and pi time same except aod showing lower clocks.

Yup, the system downclocks itself. Same as mine. Thanks for the tests mate.

Sorry KTE that I was not precise with my answer, but my GBT can't change NB multi so if I'm running HTT 240MHz then NB is above 2160MHz .

Cheers mate.

That's same latency as mine although I''m at lower HT/NB and 30MHz higher on CPU and 4MHz higher on RAM and XP 32-bit:


This is about max I can now run on HT/NB:


With luck. No Multi changing or OD oc, bootup.

WOHOO 12k nuclearus score inc!

happy day i can boot up 8xht & nb but mobo lowers cpu multiplier to 8 so i raise them with aod back to 11x and then few mhz more to ht this is quite max what i can do with boxed ( 40 c idle... load : burning heatsink ) superpi just wont work on normal mode in vista

PS: could someone run too nuclearus and hexus pifast lets compare on same clocks!

http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?i...jahexuszd2.jpg

I'll do a quick run in a while once I boot it up for you to compare with. I need to compare anyway.

Something tells me my runs will be much slower.

[KTE]

PS: could someone run too nuclearus and hexus pifast lets compare on same clocks!

http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?i...jahexuszd2.jpg

Here ya go mate. I have to bootup 8x NB/HT, or no boot. Some comparisons at those clocks, normal windows XP:

1M (that's slow for them clocks I think): http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9946/26731cv5.png
Hexus-Pi: http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3994/2673hpiqn5.png
Nuclearus: http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/9656/2673ncau7.png
EVEREST mem/cache: http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9190/2673vvs2.png

[donitsi]

that's slow for them clocks I think

Yes. I hate your NB clocks Hopefully with new bios you reach higher clocks. Terrible latencies.
Thanks for posting these!

[Tony]

Im beginning to think NB clocks are not going to rise on Phenom till after the L3 cache issues are ironed out...some ES parts are actually working fine so it does look not every processor is effected...the issue is we can not buy these ES parts.

DFI found a performance issue in the 30 bios I uploaded and have a new beta coming soon, maybe this will force a higher NB clock with overvoltage and we get to see what k10 can deliver...at this time i am even holding off running my usual benchmarks as there is no point until i can squeeze the CPU to perform.

The 3 boards I have tested here..DFI, MSI and GBT have all performed well with K8, no issues with ram clocking or CPU clocking and all have shown near identical speed...there are differences with k10 CPU though.

[Tony]

I think you misunderstood me Tony.

My thinking is as long as he's involved, things will get done.

That wasn't to say that HE himself had to do it.

I almost worded it differently, but I figured the folks here would get what I meant...

Maybe I should have just said " I'm glad the DFI TEAM is finally involved, now maybe they can find and fix the problems that plague the platform"

Sorry for the confusion.

All performance boards out of DFI are designed by Oskars team m8..., always have been.

The issues look to be source code...OR we found the work around that hits performance...who knows....

[KeZzZu]

UPDATE phenom 9500 @ 2750mhz!
setup:
Ballistix tracers @ 1:2 2.2v and 4-4-4-12
msi platinium ht @ 6x ::: nb @ 8x
vista 32 bit

how: boot up on 240 ht msi lowers cpu multiplier ... use AOD to crank back to 11x and raise htt slowly to 250 ... profit and done!

8m superpi run with stock heatsink
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4...om8moc1zn8.jpg

[KTE]

AOD doesn't work for me above 239HT. So I have to bootup at every setting.
I can boot 259HT. Anything more will freeze the system upon loading an application. No copywazza/no CDT/no Maxmem, normal windows processes/services/AV running:

Pretty easy to get upto 2838 with this chip. This was 250HTx11 2.75GHz 2GHz HT/NB 1000 4-4-4-4-20 1T (2.2V): http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=278357



1M: http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6320/1mvg6.png

That's close to max NB clocks before it freezes. Like Tony I'm holding off anything much until things are sorted. It's quite pointless yet except for play and I still can't reach the same clocks as done before.

[macci]

couple things to note:

MSI board has the option to do Vcore OFFSET, so you set VID to whatever you want (or is supported by your CPU) and then the "Vcore voltage" option starts from your VID and allows voltage levels above CPU VID value.
You can also control this with the AOD CPU Vcore slider (this is not the CPU VID slider).

So lets assume your VID=1.200V (CPU VID=28), then the Vcore setting starts at 1.200V (AUTO) and you can go up from there.

the "NB Voltage" item in the MSI BIOS is NOT for the CPU NB voltage rail but for the 790FX Chipset (which doesnt need any extra voltage because is the OVCK champ!). So there is usually no need to touch this item.

TLB bug is one thing and CPU / CPU NB clocking is another thing. Not directly connected. In order to OVCK the CPU NB you might need increase the voltage. Just like with CPU core.

And Phenom 9500 is set to 1.200V by default because that is the default voltage. MaxVID=1.2500V.

[Tony]

Sami

its just everything we are doing at this time for many of us is fighting a 2GHZ NBclock max...maybe is just the CPU's we have but the boards are all acting the same.

I hit 12500 ish in 06 tonight on the DFI with an air cooled Ultra and 6400+ at 3.5ghz in vista 64bit with 4GB of ram. Bandwidth in Everest was a flat line across Read write and copy at 10400, not sure i have ever see that before. ram was at 1000DDr2 with 5-5-4-15 timings...an easy OC for the 6400EB 4GB kits

Im still waiting for DFI to hit me up with the new bios, then I get back to the phenom, till then im having fun with some older technology thats working real well on a new technology motherboard.

BTW 141PCIE speed was dead easy, these new 790FX boards look to be quite nice for PCIE overclocking

[Brother Esau]

Theirs a Beta Bios for 790FX on DFI site I had problems with it compared to 11/22/07

[KTE]

couple things to note:

MSI board has the option to do Vcore OFFSET, so you set VID to whatever you want (or is supported by your CPU) and then the "Vcore voltage" option starts from your VID and allows voltage levels above CPU VID value.
You can also control this with the AOD CPU Vcore slider (this is not the CPU VID slider).

So lets assume your VID=1.200V (CPU VID=28), then the Vcore setting starts at 1.200V (AUTO) and you can go up from there.

the "NB Voltage" item in the MSI BIOS is NOT for the CPU NB voltage rail but for the 790FX Chipset (which doesnt need any extra voltage because is the OVCK champ!). So there is usually no need to touch this item.

TLB bug is one thing and CPU / CPU NB clocking is another thing. Not directly connected. In order to OVCK the CPU NB you might need increase the voltage. Just like with CPU core.

And Phenom 9500 is set to 1.200V by default because that is the default voltage. MaxVID=1.2500V.

Thanks. Yep, I can normally reach my max on stock volts TBH. I've noticed if you set 1.4V VCore in BIOS by the time I boot up, AOD lets me crank it up to 1.946V
But it runs too hot past ~1.56 to try that for me.

BTW 141PCIE speed was dead easy, these new 790FX boards look to be quite nice for PCIE overclocking

Something that I posted around 4 days ago might interest you: http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6931/pciefr3.png

How's that brother?

No reboot or anything. Just had to lower it back down quick because my hard drive starts giving errors.

[Ricey20]

Hi guys,
K i have a Phenom 9500 and MSI K9A2 (bios 1.1, is there a better bios to use?). Running Vista x64 and 8gb of ram. I tried OCing using stock volts at x7 HT/NB and 235HT, PCIE about 109 and it just freezes no matter what i try. I tried upping voltages and even dropping ram ratio to 1:166 instead of 1:2, even 215HT but its the same thing. I can run memtest test #5 and 7 all day at stock volts at 235HT and 1:2 so doesnt seem like my ram is the problem. Does vista x64 just hate overclocking or 8gb of ram? Need some help figuring out what the problem is.
Thanks

Edit:
Oh, using these P-states.

CPU FID: 06
CPU DID: 1
CPU VID: 28

NB FID: 04
NB DID: 1
NB VID: 36

Going to try with just 4gb of ram already. Really want 8gb though.

Edit2: Ugh even with 4gb nothing works. Tried everything from volts, lower HT/NB, 215HT and OD still freezes my comp.

Edit3: Ok realized AOD is a buggy piece of youknow, lol. Maybe just with vista x64, changing just 1 HT will freeze my comp. I can OC thru bios fine but need to change PCIE & volts thru OD. Is there anyway to change DDR voltage (NM figured out DDR voltage) and PCIE freq thru the bios? I can only boot at 222HT at default PCIE, since i cant change it thru the bios i cant go much higher since vista gives me a stop error for my gpu.

[Lightman]

Good news from GBT front...

New BIOS F3B moved HTT wall for me from 240MHz to 262MHz. It also added NB multi and according to one person involved in making that BIOS they now battling NB clock wall and they hoping that 2.1GHz should be possible with next release! For more details just check GBT thread

[KTE]

At least you have much better working. I read the thread regular don't worry. Just don't have nothing to add.

Ricey: I'll reply, just gimme some time one handed for now you see.

[Tony]

Theirs a Beta Bios for 790FX on DFI site I had problems with it compared to 11/22/07

may be the one they just sent me...i will give it a shot today with Phenom

[Tony]

Thanks. Yep, I can normally reach my max on stock volts TBH. I've noticed if you set 1.4V VCore in BIOS by the time I boot up, AOD lets me crank it up to 1.946V
But it runs too hot past ~1.56 to try that for me.

Something that I posted around 4 days ago might interest you: http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6931/pciefr3.png

How's that brother?

No reboot or anything. Just had to lower it back down quick because my hard drive starts giving errors.

141 on NV cards seems to be the magic number...thats why if it works I never try higher