Define the XtremeSystems Liquid Cooling Community...

[virtualrain]

There's been a lot of debate in recent weeks about big bore vs. small bore, copper vs. aluminum, AC vs the rest of the world, bling vs performance, cost/value vs performance, (and this list could go on). In some ways, it feels like this community is going through a transition right now, re-establishing it's constitution.

While it's not my mandate to ask, I'm very curious... so...

What do you think defines the XtremeSystems Liquid Cooling Community?

Please just don't respond with "We're Extreme!"... In your answer, please outline what you feel are the strengths and weaknesses of this community as well as what areas this community is considered a leader and a lagger in your opinion.

I'm also interested in any recent new-commer's to XS to weigh-in on what brought you here and why you stayed or why you keep a foot in other communities as well.

Finally, I'm curious how people think this community could be better than it is today? (Again I ask this only because I'm curious, not because I have any power to change anything).

...............................................

Here's my assessment:

What attracted me initially to XS nearly a year ago was a few things:
- Awesome traffic which translates into plenty of fresh content almost hourly
- Lots of people with lots of experience
- High maturity level
- Lots of emphasis on testing and results rather than opinion

I think where XS is both strong and weak is in it's near laser focus on absolute minimum temperatures above all other requirements. While this has established XS as a leader in the drive for maximum water cooling performance, it also has become somewhat of a weakness IMHO... which I will articulate further in a subsequent post if this thread shows any legs.

[NaeKuh]

LOL.... it means trying to be the most excessive as possible, while having beauty hide behind the beast.

As for leaders... I dont think we have a leader, unless you want to count the mods. But everyone shares a bit into a collective. True half the stuff said is filled with false info being corrected by a few, But i dont think 1 person can be called a leader.

If your refering to our legends:

Iany: legendary PITA!
Cathar: Block/Radiator designer legend.
Marci: Radiator legend.
Petra: Great reviews and store owner.
MaxxRacer: Watercooling / Laptop Legend.
Nikhsub1: Unbaised reviews, and methodology
Ranker: Anti AC activist legend.
Pete: He knows tons of info on DDC's
PhilyBoy: <-- i believe he should be in this list, But i havent seen much of his posts compared to the names above.

And ME: Uber Pic Spammer!

[Movieman]

I came to this section looking for information.
What I found was that information and more important, some very good people.
No n00b comments, just "How can I help you?"and great knowledge.

[virtualrain]

LOL.... it means trying to be the most excessive as possible, while having beauty hide behind the beast.

As for leaders... I dont think we have a leader, unless you want to count the mods. But everyone shares a bit into a collective. True half the stuff said is filled with false info being corrected by a few, But i dont think 1 person can be called a leader.

If your refering to our legends:

Iany: legendary PITA!
Cathar: Block/Radiator designer legend.
Marci: Radiator legend.
Petra: Great reviews and store owner.
MaxxRacer: Watercooling / Laptop Legend.
Nikhsub1: Unbaised reviews, and methodology
Ranker: Anti AC activist legend.
Pete: He knows tons of info on DDC's
PhilyBoy: <-- i believe he should be in this list, But i havent seen much of his posts compared to the names above.

And ME: Uber Pic Spammer!

Sorry, I didn't mean does XS have a leader (as in person), but in what areas is XS leading the water cooling world?

[Robump]

Hi

I useually use smaller forums, but this one is so unique becuase so get a ubar quick response time for any questions that are urgent, also there is always something to read about.

And lets face it if there is anything to know about in the liquid cooling buisness, you guys will no dought have it already covered and have a nass debate on it.

In short i think its great.

Rob

[Angry_Steel]

Eh..the debates will never end until someone spends 500,000 on some super testing facility and runs it for 10 years without any profit. Even then, the results will probably be discounted by one person or another and youll never get anyone to agree on everything.
Basically until that point in time, considering just the KNOWN variables in watercooling, most debates will degenerate into a runaway cascade of opinions and more opinions.
Opinions are great, they can be retained or discarded at will, but somehow it never seems to be left at just that. More often than not, you have people trying to ram opinions down other peoples throats, and if they dont swallow and say "thank you" it gets nasty.
Debate is healthy, competition is healthy, fresh ideas are healthy but not at the expense of civility. I think that in any group of watercooling enthusiasts you are always going to have disagreements over what is the defining aspect of why they watercool and what they are looking for. Whats important is mutual respect even if someone doesn't agree, or do things exactly the way someone else wants.
I think a positive point about XS is that you have some hardware vendors willing to put their behinds on the line by actually talking with the community. Hopefully they wont get too much of a headache and stick around for awhile.
In general I would hope that as far as any taking any "direction" that it stay just that.....general. By being too specific your going to alienate whole groups of people that might have something to offer. Just agree to disagree.
I mean I'm American, living in Europe, buying my parts from the US. Why? because though I like the European parts, they don't fit my budget nor my ideas on performance. They do however look nice, and Im sure they perform adequately for the job they were designed for. My preference.

Bottom line is if you are crazy/stupid/brave enough to put water in your computer, more power to you and welcome to the club. Thats just my opinion.

[afireinside]

XS watercooling community = on thermochills nuts

[ranker]

The reason XS has flourished over all other forums is due to the no nonsense approach the members take towards performance. We're not sold on hype and bling. We don't propagate myths nor do we tolerate companies that do so.

XS is great because it's one of the two forums that actually has makers of D-Tek, Swiftech, Thermochill, HWLabs, etc participate in discussions.

We're here to help others out and encourage while quickly debunking myths and inefficiencies.

I love this forum because everyone tries to push the envelope on what is possible and what was once thought as impossible. Only here do I see people go to lengths that other forums don't. People will come up with the craziest ideas and actually implement them. Theories and facts are proven with math and physics calculations.

I don't come to XS to see pretty rigs with flashing UV lights, 90's bends up the ass, and spaghetti .5 mm tubing. I come here to see guys push their machines to the limit in addition to making them attractive.

XS is like a Ferrari, it's got class, it's got speed, and its known to break world records. Above all, it's renown for those traits. You don't see other forums with people who can break super pi in singe digits, nor push extreme overclocks.

[mukmaster]

XS watter cooling
====================
from greatest value to least
--------------------------
Creativity
Performance
It actually works
Cleanliness/looks
Cost
Overall Effectiveness

[ColonelCain]

I came to this section looking for information.
What I found was that information and more important, some very good people.
No n00b comments, just "How can I help you?"and great knowledge.

Same here, back in the day. Noobs here whom disagree with the legends get pounded into submission.
That is why there are no noobs here. Everyone learns from the best.

[Bail_w]

XtremeSystems Liquid Cooling for me it define as using 1.58v on my main sig 24/7 folding wcg and keep my temps under 65s

[Spawne32]

i dont even have liquid cooling but as a fello site owner, i feel i should be in Naekuh's list

[Movieman]

XtremeSystems Liquid Cooling for me it define as using 1.58v on my main sig 24/7 folding wcg and keep my temps under 65s

My kind of guy! Thanks Bail!

I'm back to the point of the people that are in this section.
Smart, experienced, willing to go out of their way to help the new guy.
How many times have I seen a new thread:" New to water, can you help" and next thing you see is 20-100 replies with GOOD suggestions and answers to questions so that person is steered in the proper direction and doesn't waste money buying the wrong parts.

Then the exchanges of info: This works, that doesn't, mod this in this way and it will work better..
The true definition of a forum: Good information exchanged by good people for the betterment of all.

[Omastar]

Strengths: performance oriented, generally a good deal of technical knowledge, advocates for custom loops (believe me, a lot of people are content to buy Koolance and call it a day), quite a few in-house water cooling gurus.

Weaknesses: the debates about minutiae (polishing blocks with ketchup, vinegar in blocks/rads for cleaning, etc.) really need to stop. We get it. And the math wizards who flex their knowledge of flow rates, physics, etc. need to shut up if they can't properly apply this knowledge.

[ranker]

XS watter cooling
====================
from greatest value to least
--------------------------
Creativity
Performance
It actually works
Cleanliness/looks
Cost
Overall Effectiveness

Ditto.

XS is also about not being afraid to ask a question like "How to build a server?" and then have 20 guys not only provide their input, but also a few awesome guys who will take the time to PM you with their experience and call you up to make sure you did things right.

This forum is awesome.

[LogAn'sRun]

I'm also interested in any recent new-commer's to XS to weigh-in on what brought you here and why you stayed or why you keep a foot in other communities as well.

I think I fit this bill rather nicely. I don't know how I found this forum, most likely a random google forum search, or it might have been through OC's forum that someone linked here, I can't remember. But I can tell you why I stayed: XS forums are incredibly informative and the response times are like FPS 150+ with HDR and all settings at high in CSS.

I stumbled into water mainly because I got bored of my 'extreme' air set-up and wanted to see what the next evolutionary step would be, and how hard that would be to maintain. And to be quite honest, I do like the 'bling' factor as well, you have to admit, even a set-up with no lights/additives/colors/ or what not is still damn sexy. It feels to me more of an hobby that there's potential to grow and it forces me daily to learn new concepts and to bust out old collge math textbooks to brush up on some rudimentary (for you all it seems) math theories. What I enjoy here is there is so much to learn, even if it feels like a closed system of concepts.

At the same time, I lurk a bunch of other forums that are game-related, OC related and so-on, but the one that I constantly am checking into and back with is here: it is simply amazing how much is written hourly in these forums. Another strong plus with XS is the globalness of it, it has yet to feel US-based, even though I would roughly estimate the members here to be 60% americans. I think it's the passion of the pursuit of the coolest temperatures that brings everyone here from around the world. Hell, I don't know, maybe there's other forums that are like this, but who has the time to be in more than one XS? There is too much here as it is.

I think a positive point about XS is that you have some hardware vendors willing to put their behinds on the line by actually talking with the community. Hopefully they wont get too much of a headache and stick around for awhile.

Really good point that also made me stay around here. Not only have I learned a lot already, but the reps of the bigger WC companies weigh in here with their opinions as well. I think that's really repectful of the community that they are treated well and not bashed and will to take a stand to voice the reasons behind why a certain product is produced the way it is, and still willing to receive feedback or criticism where needed. I haven't seen that yet on other forums to the degree that it is here.

. . . I mean I'm American, living in Europe, buying my parts from the US.

That's me too. I'm an expat married to a swede enjoying the quality of life here. I've been abroad for a very long time now, but still find myself buying most of my gear from the US. I like the avaibility of products and the willingness of vendors to work with you, plus it comes back to the information garnered here on a daily basis. Where else can I read reviews of almost all the blocks out there?

Another strong point with XS that others have brought up is the willingness to 'discuss' all idea's and not to flame anyone, no matter how dumb the question may be, or differring of opinion. I like that, it means there's a good chance to continue to learn something, and to not just be wedged into a corner with 'the extreme' knowledge that exhists.

How it can be better? I have no idea, perhaps just an influx of new members would make it better, giving greater reference material to count on instead of the 10-15 posters that 'can' everything. Change is inevitable and I think that the only way for this forum to continue to florish is through the embracing and acceptance of newbies/n00bs/new members and even old hands. As long as the level of maturity/politness is maintained, I'm confident that you will continue to see 'lurkers/guests' become members and even contributing members of the community.

[ranker]

I think where XS is both strong and weak is in it's near laser focus on absolute minimum temperatures above all other requirements. While this has established XS as a leader in the drive for maximum water cooling performance,

It's this focus on absolute performance that puts XS on the map and draws so many here. Why change what made it popular and what still makes it popular to this day. There are plenty of other forums out there that will focus on bling. However, this forum takes a no nonsense approach towards performance and the desire to push that envelope further. The moment we change towards a casual "bling" showcasing, non performance oriented type of forum, we'll just have turned into another [H] or Tom's Hardware (water cooling there is just as a$$ backwards as [H]).

How many innovative designs have we seen from those who were chasing that 1C? Quite a lot.

However, if its your own personal preference to build something that isn't sitting on the bleeding edge of the performance envelope, by all means do so. Just because I'm drawn to this forum and support it mainly for its performance oriented nature doesn't mean I won't take the time to admire a pretty blinged out rig here and there.

"Don't fix what ain't broke."

[hecktic]

someone should make an XS wiki page

[Grinch]

The reason XS has flourished over all other forums is due to the no nonsense approach the members take towards performance. We're not sold on hype and bling. We don't propagate myths nor do we tolerate companies that do so.

XS is great because it's one of the two forums that actually has makers of D-Tek, Swiftech, Thermochill, HWLabs, etc participate in discussions.

We're here to help others out and encourage while quickly debunking myths and inefficiencies.

I love this forum because everyone tries to push the envelope on what is possible and what was once thought as impossible. Only here do I see people go to lengths that other forums don't. People will come up with the craziest ideas and actually implement them. Theories and facts are proven with math and physics calculations.

I don't come to XS to see pretty rigs with flashing UV lights, 90's bends up the ass, and spaghetti .5 mm tubing. I come here to see guys push their machines to the limit in addition to making them attractive.

XS is like a Ferrari, it's got class, it's got speed, and its known to break world records. Above all, it's renown for those traits. You don't see other forums with people who can break super pi in singe digits, nor push extreme overclocks.

I have to agree 100% with this statement

Strengths: performance oriented, generally a good deal of technical knowledge, advocates for custom loops (believe me, a lot of people are content to buy Koolance and call it a day), quite a few in-house water cooling gurus.

Weaknesses: the debates about minutiae (polishing blocks with ketchup, vinegar in blocks/rads for cleaning, etc.) really need to stop. We get it. And the math wizards who flex their knowledge of flow rates, physics, etc. need to shut up if they can't properly apply this knowledge.

It's this focus on absolute performance that puts XS on the map and draws so many here. Why change what made it popular and what still makes it popular to this day. There are plenty of other forums out there that will focus on bling. However, this forum takes a no nonsense approach towards performance and the desire to push that envelope further. The moment we change towards a casual "bling" showcasing, non performance oriented type of forum, we'll just have turned into another [H] or Tom's Hardware (water cooling there is just as a$$ backwards as [H]).

How many innovative designs have we seen from those who were chasing that 1C? Quite a lot.

However, if its your own personal preference to build something that isn't sitting on the bleeding edge of the performance envelope, by all means do so. Just because I'm drawn to this forum and support it mainly for its performance oriented nature doesn't mean I won't take the time to admire a pretty blinged out rig here and there.

"Don't fix what ain't broke."

again I agree 100%

[.Logic]

After lurking around in many forums after leaving a general chat forum a friend from school introduced me to I stumbled across XS, while I still lurk around other forums and occassionaly contribute to them (constructively I hope ) the only forums I really enjoy posting in are XS and OCAU

I only joined this forum a few months ago, however in the short time I have been here I already know that I will make this my new 'home' (so to speak) this is mainly due to:
- Highly experienced people that know what they are talking about when it comes to almost everything and the different opinions I am able to obtain and contribute to without being referred to as a n00b etc which after a month or two of lurking I found was quite common in many other forums
- A great mix of mature (most of the time ) people from different cultures
- Friendly nature and acceptance of new people (me included!) in the community from the majority of people
- Huge traffic flow through this forum especially, which means that when I have finished reading through a few average sized threads I can refresh the page and have an entire list of new threads to read through, full of the same quality material (in most cases)

However I do have one pet peeve... namely the arguments that arise over the most insignificant situations. I understand there is no such thing as a perfect forum but some of the arguements that are posted often appear quite childish in nature and even though I know the user behind the name has demonstrated time and time again that they do know what they are talking about and that they have the ability to act maturely in actual fact part of acting maturely is the ability to be able to maintain the same standards all the time without resorting to 'childish name calling' (metaphorically speaking)

I am not trying to start a flame war and certainly am not trying to attack anyone I just feel that some of the arguements on XS could easily be averted if people did not rise to the occassion, even if they are trying to help someone understand a point.

Please take my post with a grain of salt (as I have said in previous posts) I am still relatively new here and have not developed the full taste as to how XS properly functions

I apologise if my syntax or grammer is lacking somewhat it is late and I need to go to bed, I have exams in the morning

[IanY]

Same here, back in the day. Noobs here whom disagree with the legends get pounded into submission.
That is why there are no noobs here. Everyone learns from the best.

Speak for yourself ! Its the ultimate noob here ! Perpetually challenge and disagree with the "legends" and I don't accept anything at face value. I learn from the best -- my own eyes.

[Grinch]

Speak for yourself ! Its the ultimate noob here ! Perpetually challenge and disagree with the "legends" and I don't accept anything at face value. I learn from the best -- my own eyes.

maybe they need to be checked?

had to say that man...

[IanY]

maybe they need to be checked?

had to say that man...

I have a retort to that, and an opposing insult as well, but I shall refrain because its not my intention to start another flame war.

[Movieman]

I just proclaimed today to be:
"National Be Nice to One Another" Day..
So at least try guys and have fun here..
Thanks.
Dave the old fart..

[montyshaw]

I can here first to read and learn. XS is known on the web for hardcore stuff. So I've kind of always known about these forums. I came here because I just could not get my q6600 to overclock stably, and I knew I had to water cool to get there. What i didn't realize, although I've been a computer hobbyist since 1975, and had read a lot about water cooling, was how little I knew about the details. At first I was a bit tentative about posting, but having finally figured out that you can't get to the 'for sale' forums until you reach some post count , I asked some reasonable questions. No one bit my head off, and I received nice informative answers from people. That makes a nice forum. Now sometimes, even if you read and lurk a lot, you can accidentally hit a topic that can trigger a wave of responses, some good, some inflammatory, but on the whole the information content here is way to heavy to ignore. The fact that I have had good interchanges with people that are big fish in this small pond, is really refreshing for a noob like me. To have Cathar take the time to explain series vs parallel radiators to me, really says a lot about the quality of the people here. I don't care what some PITA may say, there are legends here, minor legends for sure, but they have made an impact on the water cooling world, and it is a real treat for me to get the benefit of their experience.

]Monty[