Project Whop : Autocascade

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-13-2007, 06:16 PM

Whop whop whop!
Unit Specs:

Matsush1ta 7/8 HP 9k BTU Rotary w/ 40uF Run Cap
Large Condenser (8" x 10" x 2") w/ 185 CFM 172mm fan
Lots of 3/16 Tube
Lots of 3/8 Tube
Lots of Tee's and all those nice things
Temprite 300 Series Un-Floated Oil Separator
Bunch of filters, strainers, Misc
5' Braided Flexible line with Runmc Stepper Evap
.031"/8mm Capillary Line
Idle/Load Bypass via Hand Valve
Neoprene, armaflex, and possibly pour foam insulation
R11, R22, and R23 when I muster $500

**gosmeyer** · 06-13-2007, 06:32 PM

Your ready!

http://uscomposites.com/foam.html
your foam

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-13-2007, 06:33 PM

Yep I have that

8lb density

**Stapler** · 06-13-2007, 06:34 PM

Good luck NoL. Is this for a customer?

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-13-2007, 06:35 PM

Myself

Though its more aimed at as neat as possible of an autocascade, something to show everyone that a nice looking unit is very possible. So I might sell it, just not sure.

**mytekcontrols** · 06-13-2007, 09:20 PM

Look at all the shiny goodies, just ready to be put together

This should be interesting, because I am just about done filling my shopping list for what I will call "AC2" the sequel to the morphing window air conditioner project. I'll be building up a 3 stage version with a larger compressor this time. Be posting something in a few weeks myself (don't worry, I'll be taking my time on this build, so don't rush your self on my account

).

It'll be interesting to see how we both do, and the different approaches taken.

My goal is -100 to -110 at 200 watts. Although I'll just be using a dummy cold head for my initial tests.

**Ssilencer** · 06-13-2007, 09:28 PM

Impressive lot of stuff, I'm looking forward and subscribed, this will be a really nice project

**Ashraf** · 06-13-2007, 09:29 PM

I am ready to learn.

**kayl** · 06-14-2007, 01:05 AM

looks interesting noob cant wait to see the results, i would recommend shorten the copper tube between the stainless suction line and cpu head though as will be an issue mounting in a tower case.

**Brettbeck** · 06-14-2007, 02:32 AM

Good luck with the build NoL

. I see you managed to get a decent condenser too, but without a fan shroud?

**_HL4E_HalfLife_** · 06-14-2007, 02:41 AM

"Matsush1ta 7/8 HP 9k BTU Rotary"

LOL I never heard someone using that measurement on a compressor.

9000Btu rotary would be a 3/4hp compressor for those of u that are wondering.

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-14-2007, 03:52 AM

I'll be putting up a slab shroud for the fan, just probably MDF. Its more like 9800 btuh. HP does not always match BTUH, its a rough guess at best. As for the lineset, I probably will, its just taken off the last cascade, then sealed back up with inert gas.

Temps aimed towards -60C or colder @ 250 watts.

**dr.rafi** · 06-14-2007, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

I'll be putting up a slab shroud for the fan, just probably MDF. Its more like 9800 btuh. HP does not always match BTUH, its a rough guess at best. As for the lineset, I probably will, its just taken off the last cascade, then sealed back up with inert gas.

Temps aimed towards -60C or colder @ 250 watts.

i think that fan is little small for that condenser , but so nice goodies

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-14-2007, 06:38 AM

Haha you'd be suprised it just looks small next to it right now. I can't seem to find the type of fan that is a motor on a mount with attached blades, so axial fans are what I use. Also, the auxillary condenser will definitly boost the capacity.

**Barnsley-Bill** · 06-14-2007, 07:24 AM

nice goodies NoL Ill be keeping an eye on this thread thats for sure

.

**mytekcontrols** · 06-14-2007, 07:55 AM

Also, the auxillary condenser will definitly boost the capacity.

This is a very keen observation, and is probably true for autocascades. There is also something else to consider...

During the years I worked at Polycold, we learned that the air cooled condensers that came with conventional condensing units (intended for single stage applications), were over kill when used in our autocascade applications.

To determine what was really needed, we would do a thermocouple spread across the condenser, and plot it out under various load points for our autocascade system. It was quickly discovered that most of the required work was done well within the first 1/3 of the condenser. The reason was attributed to the use of higher boiling refrigerants within the autocascade blend, which seemed to be far more efficient at extracting and transferring the heat of the compressor to the outside air then what would be seen with something like R-22 as a refrigerant. Of course this is a highly simplistic explanation, and I'm sure there were other factors involved, but generally speaking autocascade systems can use smaller air cooled condensers as compared to their single stage cousins.

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-14-2007, 08:08 AM

Yep, I pulled an educated guess on that. Thanks for the education mytek!

After this I will be putting together a much smaller autocascade, most likely with a NF11FX from Danfoss, Refrigeration Research H-50's, and r11, r22, r23.

**Xeon th MG Pony** · 06-14-2007, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_

"Matsush1ta 7/8 HP 9k BTU Rotary"

LOL I never heard someone using that measurement on a compressor.

9000Btu rotary would be a 3/4hp compressor for those of u that are wondering.

there is no connection to BTU per HP, colder the temp aplication higher HP motor due to less heating ( I may have goten that back wards) So for multiple HP ratings you can have the same BTU moved.

(Now some coffe' then less mental fuzz lol)

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-14-2007, 11:15 AM

Here's diagram minus expansion tank, filters, and a few other things.

**Moc** · 06-14-2007, 12:11 PM

And minus suction gas from evap

. Easy design, hope it works!!

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-14-2007, 12:15 PM

Yes but I didn't draw that for a reason. Most likely will run back thru HX, but possibly not

(Not to mention there might be a hot gas bypass, but I think I might just do an idle/load bypass).

And here's the first heat exchanger (took only 10 minutes or so to build and coil!)
Dimensions of HX are 10" tall, 5.25" wide. Only 1.5" tall as well!
Nice and small, phase sep will most likely be inside of it before I apply insulation.

**n00b 0f l337** · 06-14-2007, 01:07 PM

Sorta layout, at least with HX standing in front of condenser with phase sep in the middle. The accumulator/expansion tank with hand valve will go on top of the condenser though.

I'm also going to try and get some butane or isobutane, so that I can do some experimentation with r600/a, r290, and co2 while I save for the r23 and regulator.