A Good Amusing Must-Read (if you like intarweb debates!)

[Kayin]

That's all I was saying. Most of your argument has been irrelevant to me. A 65nm low-wattage dual core might not have (will not have) the same thermal characteristics that a C2Q will have, so telling me I need a Fuzion is a little off. I can run a Maze3 and still get respectable temps. I plan to eventually break 3 GHz 24/7 stable with this, I just have to learn the board (and I have precious little time for that this month) and then the cooling will pay off more. There's little airflow in this case anyway, so WC is just helping keep the temps acceptable, and giving me a more stable deltaT. Sometimes the fringe benefits are the ones that make it worth it, like the loss of the loud 8800GTS cooler. Or the fact I only run 5 fans, and all of them are auto temp controlled. I can't hear my machine on at all, I have to look for running water in the res. It's just what I want, nothing more, nothing less. Well, except for that 8500 for physics, and my other 8800 back, but that's not relevant to the discussion at hand. If it makes you happy, run it. That's what I'm doing.

[nikhsub1]

I guess, to each his own.

Exactly. Been down this road many times before. You won't change anyones mind - and bashing does absolutely nothing for the cause. It is interesting that you don't see any 'old timers' at all in this thread because they just don't care.

[ranker]

Through all I've said, I've never said the high-flow stuff wasn't outperforming. I was playing devil's advocate because there are some people who want just what they're offering. If that weren't so, they would have disappeared by now. They've got Swifty and Dtek beat by miles on name recognition. When I started really watercooling, Swiftech was all 3/8" with these annoying as hell pushfits an d really freaking strange setups-sealed blocks, you name it... I didn't give them a second thought. I ran a Koolance, cause #1 it was free (great way to get people) and #2 I could set it up easily. My first Koolance, BTW, was decased before I There are times to recommend things on looks "Hey what's the coolest looking setup?" but how can anyone ethically recommend such a product when someone asks "I want the best to lower my temps by such and such at such and such price".got it. I stuck 2 120s on there and called it a day. Temps were honestly not bad, first on a 1400 tbird and then a 2400 tbred.

Fast forward to a few months ago, Swiftech actually has decent blocks and kits, has moved to 1/2" and who the hell is this Dtek? While I've been out of that loop, I've run three different DD systems, the Koolance again as an external in a cut-down Lian-Li, and toyed with friends' TT and AC setups.

With the advent of AC in g1/4", I'm tossing all my DD stuff in my own setup. I don't give a rip what you say, I'm not cooling a C2Q, I'm cooling a low-wattage 3600 X2 that doesn't even always run overclocked. I spent beaucoup bucks on the mods for this PC, and I prefer the aesthetics of the AC. In fact, total cost of mods may exceed hardware. I'll most likely keep the Koolance GPU blocks cause they're not giving me grief (running a serious anticorrosive) and cause they're more of a to deal with.

You can call me a fool, though I won't have any Al in the AC setup. Their shiny stuff is nickel plated brass, perfectly fine in a loop. I'm just switching blocks. It's my money and I'll test what I want to. I tested a Maze4 versus my TDX and I'm simply not getting hot enough for it to be a huge difference.

In that circumstance, it doesn't matter what I run so long as it doesn't leak or explode. I'm not running the same stuff you are, nor am I running it as flat out either. My application is different.

ranker, you're an intelligent guy. I hold no ill against you. I just don't see how you have to bash everything different from your setup. I don't want your setup. I think all these MM cubes/swiftech blocks/PA radiators are cookie cutter and IMHO pretty ugly. It's an opinion. Just remember that in order to have yours respected you must respect others. Yes, I know you're an engineer. I respect that. I bet you can bring numbers to the table you DIDN'T find on a website. But I can bring my own, and if they're more relevant to my case, they'll win for me. I'm not recommending ANY blocks for anyone, we're all too different. Each setup is unique and should be treated as so.

meh, I'm gonna ruin my appetite. ranker, I would tone it down, but you got valid points. as far as I'm concerned, on some things we'll disagree, but you still cool.

Kayin, this thread wasn't meant for you or an attack on you or your reasons for using it. We might not see eye to eye but we can have a civil discussion with each other and not resort to making stuff up to support our statements nor poop flinging. However, there's a small vocal group over on [H] who have been spreading misinformation about the quantitative results between two different products (or group of products). As it turns out, that topic spilled over into these forums (but I believe for good reason).

Like I've pointed out, I started off with the Koolance, Big Water, Reserator route before. Been there done that. We were all a "newbies" once and these were perfect "noob" kits to break us into the scene. So I can't see where someone could say "hey you only recommend your products". Granted I've purchased way too much watercooling equipment than what's considered to be healthy for a hobby, but I make my recommendations based upon personal objective findings and knowledge passed on when asked. If AC products were superior, I'd be singing a completely different tune and recommending their products. The same applies to Koolance, TT, Innovatek, etc.

However, I can't justify recommending these products on any level past the "hey I just started and I need something noob friendly" level of experience. People start recommending blocks based upon looks alone when clearly the OP isn't asking for anything of the sort. It's happened many times over on [H]. One day I just snapped and put my foot down. I was once a noob too and I'll be damned if people recommended me stuff that was all bling and didn't perform up to par with something much cheaper and accessible. I'll be damned if people were to push their brand of products upon me with nothing to back up their recommendations other than "i bought it so it must be the " or "hey it's pretty and You can be be different like me!" (Apple Marketing).

There are times to recommend things on looks "Hey what's the coolest looking setup?" but how can anyone ethically recommend such a product when someone asks "I want the best to lower my temps by such and such at such and such price". If you check all the topics over there, you'll see the likes of Rick, Top Nurse, and a few others pushing the AC brand regardless of the situation. This forum is so awesome because the majority of the people are well informed, share experience & test results, and make objective recommendations.

The gist of it is, I have nothing against AC products personally. Objectively speaking, I view them as inferior in terms of performance at many different levels. I do admit, they're quite aesthetically pleasing to the eye (the blocks, but the aquaduct looks like a monstrosity). I do not believe anyone should be recommending their products when people ask for "what's the best performing so and so" and "what's the best I can get at this price". I'll be damned if someone recommended me an Aquaduct and persuade me to buy it, only to find out later a DDC-2 pump with a PA120.3 would not only perform better, but also be cheaper and smaller to boot. It'd be unethical.

It's ok for people to disagree, but its another thing to take it to another level and push ones products on the unsuspecting. Iany and I disagree on clamps and barbs (i love worm drives and metal/chrome fittings, he swears by plastic clamps and plastic barbs). However, you see him giving everyone the hard sell nor create BS to prove a point. With him it's just a "you can agree with me or not; to each their own buddy".

[YugenM]

It's sad because this vocal, misinformed minority tries to drown out the suggestions made by Erasmus, Arcygenical, Bio-Hazard, and ikellensbro whom are the few voices of reason that honestly try to help people on the forum rather than push a specific line of products.

I generally try to stay objective in terms of products when I try to help people there...

...although I agree completely with Ranker's points in that thread, although they are a bit overzealous.

Ranker knows what screen name I go by there

[ranker]

I generally try to stay objective in terms of products when I try to help people there...

...although I agree completely with Ranker's points in that thread, although they are a bit overzealous.

Ranker knows what screen name I go by there

I'm a law student; Lawyer in training. There's only one gear that survives the Law school; 5th gear. Partial blame may be to my high strung nature of being a congressional intern as well. I can only take so much from dealing with FUD at work that I can't stand it in my hobby; water cooling.

[RickCain]

Exactly. Been down this road many times before. You won't change anyones mind - and bashing does absolutely nothing for the cause. It is interesting that you don't see any 'old timers' at all in this thread because they just don't care.

QFT !

I still love my clear tube Nik

[Jimmer411]

If only people would put this much effort into things that really matter, like world peace

I still dont see the point of bringing up an arguement over 2 completely opposite sides of watercooling that both suite their purpose perfectly fine.

Not everyone overclocks, and some people just want a silent flashy setup while others just want something thats hastle free to setup. For those people there is the likes of AC, Tt, Koolance and Zalman watercooling setups, where some people want the lowest temps and highest overclocks and they turn to Dtek, Swiftech, DD EK etc...

Its no different than democrats vs republicans or Yankees vs red sox. In the end your cooling your processor...

[IanY]

I'm with ranker 100%.

[YugenM]

Let's see how they react to the post I made over there:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=214

And if they think I'm biased against AC products (which I am not), I guess I'll just link them to a post I made on XS:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...19&postcount=7

[buffbiff21]

The folks over at the [H] are mostly "KIDS" and coc*y S.O.B's for the most part. That is why I joined here back in 2005. People here are just WAY MORE MATURE! bottom line! Hell, if it wasn't for the folks here, my WaterKeg never would have been thought up...I Love you guys

QFT..

However there are some very knowledgable ones amongst the rubbish.

THIS is where it's at though. No SPAM, no BS, just overclocking.

[[XC] leviathan18]

If only people would put this much effort into things that really matter, like world peace

I still dont see the point of bringing up an arguement over 2 completely opposite sides of watercooling that both suite their purpose perfectly fine.

Not everyone overclocks, and some people just want a silent flashy setup while others just want something thats hastle free to setup. For those people there is the likes of AC, Tt, Koolance and Zalman watercooling setups, where some people want the lowest temps and highest overclocks and they turn to Dtek, Swiftech, DD EK etc...

Its no different than democrats vs republicans or Yankees vs red sox. In the end your cooling your processor...

you see you are wrong here... TT products in the watercooling range are just a joke easy to setup probably as easy as any good brand and swiftech kits are hazzle free too and you might see i dont have any swiftech thing in my rig.... but ive seen 3 TT cpu blocks break and kill components in 2 pc the third one was off when the disaster happened

knowing that i cant recomend TT and i can recommend swiftech over AC TT ZALMAN Koolance...etc why because the switech kit is better or even better petras kits


i can assure i lost 10% of my brain cells reading the comments of thosee AC guys at H and really they just say stupidly AC AC AC when the guy wants the best in performance and nothing beats the parts that ranker said


btw ranker send me a PM where you bought all the stuff to control pump fans and the thing that shutdowns by hardware the pc

[RickCain]

Let's see how they react to the post I made over there:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=214

And if they think I'm biased against AC products (which I am not), I guess I'll just link them to a post I made on XS:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...19&postcount=7

I'll ask you here too so "nothing gets lost" and we don't waste too many peoples time.

Why direct that question to me when I am the one running a Fuzion block?

[serialk11r]

I'll ask you here too so "nothing gets lost" and we don't waste too many peoples time.

Why direct that question to me when I am the one running a Fuzion block?

Fuzion with tiny tubes and that ugly thingy that cost how much?
Hey dude you're getting a little self contradictory. Weren't you the guy who was saying the Liquid Cooling Forum over here wasn't good because XS was known for 3dmark, ocing in general, and phase? Even if that were true it doesn't make you godly.

[ranker]

I'll ask you here too so "nothing gets lost" and we don't waste too many peoples time.

Why direct that question to me when I am the one running a Fuzion block?

It's not what you own. It's the BS you're propagating at the expense of those seeking honest information.

[Mav451]

Sigh. For all the "XS is better" statements, I joined [H] first, then XS. XS has had such a smug attitude toward noobies and this thread isn't helping much either.

That said, XS has been helpful in my OCing travels.

[YugenM]

I'll ask you here too so "nothing gets lost" and we don't waste too many peoples time.

Why direct that question to me when I am the one running a Fuzion block?

Running a Fuzion?

Good for you, you're finally opening your eyes.

[ranker]

Sigh. For all the "XS is better" statements, I joined [H] first, then XS. XS has had such a smug attitude toward noobies and this thread isn't helping much either.

That said, XS has been helpful in my OCing travels.

Smug attitude? Have you seen all the posts on these boards with people trying to improve their loops? Most of us jump in to give them a helping hand and congratulate them when their builds turn out great.

[RickCain]

Fuzion with tiny tubes and that ugly thingy that cost how much?

Are you saying that because you can't afford it or just don't understand what it is?

Hey dude you're getting a little self contradictory. Weren't you the guy who was saying the Liquid Cooling Forum over here wasn't good because XS was known for 3dmark, ocing in general, and phase? Even if that were true it doesn't make you godly.

Yes and it is true, which is not a bad thing. Just when you see XS in the e-news, it is regarding some insane overclock with LN2 or Phase that just broke an overclocking or 3dmark record. Am I wrong?

[Vapor]

Just to say it once....don't bring an argument like that here....warnings and bans will be in order.

Do it the XS way...show data, maybe a little how-to-read-the-data statement, keep it impersonal and leave it at that. If someone likes an aesthetic, leave it at that. If someone needs a certain level of performance, leave it at that. Personal attacks will not be tolerated at all.

EDIT: and in the time it took to write my post this thread gets one step closer to making me busy Looks like I'm gonna have fun tonight...

[serialk11r]

Are you saying that because you can't afford it or just don't understand what it is?



Yes and it is true, which is not a bad thing. Just when you see XS in the e-news, it is regarding some insane overclock with LN2 or Phase that just broke an overclocking or 3dmark record. What is wrong with that?

Okay yes but because there's awesome LN2 benchers and cascade builders, does that mean our watercooling section sucks? Does that mean what you say is MORE correct?

[whoodiestyle]

omg are those teflon hoses?

[YugenM]

omg are those teflon hoses?

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/aqcoplcotubl.html

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/maplco6mmidx.html

will update post once I find out exactly what they are made of

EDIT: Appears to be polyurethane (PUR)

[serialk11r]

Doesn't seem like teflon. Pure teflon tubes would cost a lot more, and teflon coated...well I don't see why they would go to those lengths.

[whoodiestyle]

well the teflon hoses i used for my paintball guns were usually about that size and came in black and blue mainly back then like 2-3 years ago

[RickCain]

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/aqcoplcotubl.html

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/maplco6mmidx.html

will update post once I find out exactly what they are made of

EDIT: Appears to be polyurethane (PUR)

Actually the tubing you linked to is not recommended with plug n cool connectors as the ID is smaller than typical 8mm ID tubing, which causes the risk of leaking.

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/aqcoplcotucl.html

The above link is to the actual tubing I have and was supplied when I bought the AquaDuct360.

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/aqcoaq360xt.html

That paired with the Fuzion gives an ultra silent operation.