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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #2601
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    722.48 TiB (794.38 TB) total
    1883.78 hrs (Torture), 2691 hrs (Power-On)
    14238 Raw Wear
    118.18 MB/s avg for the last 20.38 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK
    C4-Erase Failure Block Count (Realloc Sectors) from 13 to 14.
    1=Bnk 6/Blk 2406
    2=Bnk 3/Blk 3925
    3=Bnk 0/Blk 1766
    4=Bnk 0/Blk 829
    5=Bnk 4/Blk 3191
    6=Bnk 7/Blk 937
    7=Bnk 7/Blk 1980
    8=Bnk 7/Blk 442
    9=Bnk 7/Blk 700
    10=Bnk 2/Blk 1066
    11=Bnk 7/Blck 85
    12=Bnk 4/Blk 3192
    13=Bnk 7/Blk 280
    14=Bnk 3/Blk 2375
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

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  2. #2602
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Alright, the Mushkin is really, really dead.

    Any suggestions?

  3. #2603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Alright, the Mushkin is really, really dead.

    Any suggestions?
    http://www.sadtrombone.com/

    It's resting...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
    Last edited by johnw; 11-10-2011 at 09:58 AM.

  4. #2604
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I have to say that I was not expecting that this is how the Chronos Deluxe would die. It looks as though CDI and Windows somehow really got it right and have been predicting failure for the past week. Basically, 01 (raw read error rate) would occasionally dip below threshold and trigger the move from CAUTION to BAD. Looks like there was something to it -- I just wish someone could adequately explain RRER in 2281s to me.


    Is anyone else looking at their SF drives and getting apprehensive about the future?
    Last edited by Christopher; 11-10-2011 at 10:46 AM.

  5. #2605
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I have to say that I was not expecting that this is how the Chronos Deluxe would die.
    ...
    Is anyone else looking at their SF drives and getting apprehensive about the future?
    I don't think anyone was expecting it to just fail, however it was well past the spec so we knew that it would fail, just not when.
    Maybe we are too optimistic, maybe we need to give the drives a few breaks. (both powered on and powered off)

    I'm not having second thoughts about my SF based drives, I'm pretty sure that none of my drives will get close to MWI exhaustion.
    I expect I won't be using any drive that has expired for anything important, that goes for all makes.

    I did however expect the drives to die gracefully, as in getting read only and not end up being undetectable.
    -
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  6. #2606
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    466.50TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    34.18MiB/s on avg (~25 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 85/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 64 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 344154 (Raw writes)
    F1 458084 (Host writes)

    MD5 OK

    106.80MiB/s on avg (~25 hours)

    power on hours : 1337

    B1 is 1 down, from 65 to 64.
    -
    Hardware:

  7. #2607
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    The only real indication that the drive was on the verge of dying was the periodic drops in RRER below threshold. That may just be a coincidence, but I still think that the Mushkin wasn't really all that far along, and certainly not past some point of no return. It didn't even have 380TB of raw writes on it yet. Perhaps you can only write so fast for so long to the drive before something (bad) happens. The M4 wasn't really all that much slower if you compare incompressible write speed, and with 25nm NAND as well.

    I think this is more like a 'panic locked' Indilinx.

    I guess I was just expecting a little more as toggle NAND drives are positioned as premium products with premium nand. If the drive had RAISE, maybe it would be a different story, or maybe it would be dead all the same. It just feels incredibly random, and that's not confidence inspiring. I wouldn't have a problem with using a SF drive for a boot drive, but I'm guessing that they are not well suited to surviving endurance testing. If the Force 3 has a similar fate to the Mushkin and the F40-A I think we need more of an explanation. I would consider this just rotten luck and not even related to the endurance testing had the F40-A died in exactly the same manner.

  8. #2608
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    Todays update:
    Kingston V+100
    214.9147 TiB
    847 hours
    Avg speed 75.38 MiB/s
    AD still 1.
    P/E?
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-M G1 80GB
    33,4438 TiB Host writes
    18810 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 00
    MWI=50 to 42
    MD5 OK
    52.25 MiB/s on avg
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  9. #2609
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Christopher,

    When did RRER start dropping below threshold?

    I won't change my plan for this drive but I'll be looking for signs of course, RAISE might make a difference but I do think I need to carry on in order to get some answers and then later on verify using a new drive. (we'll see)
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  10. #2610
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    In the past 6 or so days (I have email logs). I figured out that the RRER was dropping below the threshold which triggered CDIs emails and Windows' error log. It's hard to catch in the act as the value changes frequently, but I was watching when the value dropped below threshold and saw the drive's status change to BAD in CDI and was sent another few alerts. There has to be someone hanging out around here who could illuminate the Raw Read Error Rate 01 attribute as it pertains to SandForce 2200s.

  11. #2611
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    I believe we have something useful out of the Muskin's death: RRER predicted the highly degraded state.

    Possible root death causes as I see them:
    - 1 * NAND depletion (Samsung 470 64GB)
    - 1 * Data retention (Crucial M4 64GB)
    - 1 * Uncorrectable errors (Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 60GB)
    - 1 * Controller failure? (Corsair F40 40GB)
    Out of which I believe Samsung 470 and Mushkin Chronos Deluxe were somehow predicted in a right way by SMART. Overall it's not bad, 50% chances to have a good death prediction. Probably hard drives are not too different from this point of view.

  12. #2612
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiu View Post
    I believe we have something useful out of the Muskin's death: RRER predicted the highly degraded state.

    Possible root death causes as I see them:
    - 1 * NAND depletion (Samsung 470 64GB)
    - 1 * Data retention (Crucial M4 64GB)
    - 1 * Uncorrectable errors (Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 60GB)
    - 1 * Controller failure? (Corsair F40 40GB)
    Out of which I believe Samsung 470 and Mushkin Chronos Deluxe were somehow predicted in a right way by SMART. Overall it's not bad, 50% chances to have a good death prediction. Probably hard drives are not too different from this point of view.
    That may be true to an extent, but I don't think RRER is what it says with SF2200s. If you power the drive down for a short time, the RRER drops to zero when you power the drive back up. After a while of running it increases like a timer. Keeping better track of the attribute was difficult because it changes so often.


    I bought a Larson Creek 311 20GB for cheap this evening. I'll check it out and may consider endurance testing it after putting it though its paces. I'm not crazy about testing SLC drives, but 20GB is probably small enough to be feasible. For 33% of MSRP I was buying even if I didn't need it.
    Last edited by Christopher; 11-10-2011 at 04:44 PM.

  13. #2613
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    An SLC drive should surely outlast what we have seen so far in this test.
    20GB is not much but not that much of a difference vs the X25-E 32GB
    It can do > 100MB/s sequentially but with this kind of workload it might be down to ~70MB/s.

    --

    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    467.97TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    33.62MiB/s on avg (~38 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 87/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 63 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 347916 (Raw writes) ->340TiB
    F1 463094 (Host writes) ->452TiB

    MD5 OK

    106.84MiB/s on avg (~38 hours)

    power on hours : 1350

    B1 is 1 down, from 64 to 63.
    -
    Hardware:

  14. #2614
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    731.19 TiB (803.96 TB) total
    1904.10 hrs (Torture), 2714 hrs (Power-On)
    14396 Raw Wear
    118.39 MB/s avg for the last 18.85 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK
    C4-Erase Failure Block Count (Realloc Sectors) at 14.
    1=Bnk 6/Blk 2406
    2=Bnk 3/Blk 3925
    3=Bnk 0/Blk 1766
    4=Bnk 0/Blk 829
    5=Bnk 4/Blk 3191
    6=Bnk 7/Blk 937
    7=Bnk 7/Blk 1980
    8=Bnk 7/Blk 442
    9=Bnk 7/Blk 700
    10=Bnk 2/Blk 1066
    11=Bnk 7/Blck 85
    12=Bnk 4/Blk 3192
    13=Bnk 7/Blk 280
    14=Bnk 3/Blk 2375
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  15. #2615
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    That m225 Turbo is looking good. 800TB -- nothing to sneeze at.

  16. #2616
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    469.44TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    33.34MiB/s on avg (~51 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 94/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 62 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 351576 (Raw writes) ->343TiB
    F1 467965 (Host writes) ->457TiB

    MD5 OK

    106.86MiB/s on avg (~51 hours)

    power on hours : 1363

    B1 is 1 down, from 63 to 62.
    -
    Hardware:

  17. #2617
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    Todays update:
    Kingston V+100
    222.2637 TiB
    875 hours
    Avg speed 75.75 MiB/s
    AD still 1.
    P/E?
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-M G1 80GB
    37,6163 TiB Host writes
    18838 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 00
    MWI=42 to 31
    MD5 OK
    49.23 MiB/s on avg
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  18. #2618
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    470.71TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    33.19MiB/s on avg (~62 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 92/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 61 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 354800 (Raw writes) ->346TiB
    F1 472255 (Host writes) ->461TiB

    MD5 OK

    106.90MiB/s on avg (~62 hours)

    power on hours : 1374

    B1 is 1 down, from 62 to 61.
    -
    Hardware:

  19. #2619
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    Todays update:
    Kingston V+100
    227.8350 TiB
    897 hours
    Avg speed 75.89 MiB/s
    AD still 1.
    P/E?
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-M G1 80GB
    41,2488 TiB
    18860 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 00
    MWI=31 to 25
    MD5 OK
    53.77 MiB/s on avg
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  20. #2620
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    472.19TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    33.08MiB/s on avg (~76 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 92/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 60 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 358533 (Raw writes) ->350TiB
    F1 477223 (Host writes) ->466TiB

    MD5 OK

    106.96MiB/s on avg (~76 hours)

    power on hours : 1388

    B1 is 1 down, from 61 to 60.
    -
    Hardware:

  21. #2621
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    I installed a few updates last night -> system rebooted.
    Cleaned the X25-V using the Toolbox and filled the F3 with 46% data and then deleted the file.

    --

    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    473.56TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    36.76MiB/s on avg (~11 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 94/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 59 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 361629 (Raw writes) ->353TiB
    F1 481343 (Host writes) ->470TiB

    MD5 OK

    106.56MiB/s on avg (~11 hours)

    power on hours : 1399

    B1 is 1 down, from 60 to 59.
    -
    Hardware:

  22. #2622
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I feel like I should be putting in some updates, but then I remember that the Chronos is dead... I blame Sandforce. They should make the drive with the understanding that people like me are going to write almost 11TB a day to it.

  23. #2623
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    We miss the Chronos Deluxe and the m4!
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  24. #2624
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I feel like I should be putting in some updates, but then I remember that the Chronos is dead... I blame Sandforce. They should make the drive with the understanding that people like me are going to write almost 11TB a day to it.
    Well, luckily there are new Indilinx drives coming soon!
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  25. #2625
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    And Samsung 830
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

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