Should I change my setup? Rad question...

[Radical_53]

Right now I'm using a Black Ice Extreme X-Flow triple radiator to cool my X² plus SLI system.
I'm using a dual DDC+ pump (with 15.4ft head and 2.2gpm each, so a higher flow restriction would not be a big problem) and 3 SilenX "pro 14db" fans sporting ~70cfm.

Should I rather go for a Thermochill PA series radiator or equip my BI-X with 6 fans? The additional height of the PA would be a problem in my system, as then I couldn't mount it with fans on both sides, at least then there woulnd't be much space below the fans. Which, in fact, limits performance quite a bit regarding the experiences I made with this.
I was quite satisfied with my rad until I read the sticky, saying that the Black Ice Extreme was not the best thing to go for if using low-cfm fans...
So there's the choice to go for a PA 120.3 with 3 fans, or stick with the Black Ice and put a total of 6 fans on it...

Thanks for any advice

[lv_dicedealer]

If you are satisfied with the performance, there is no need really to blow the cash and go changing it up just becasue of someone's suggestion here....

Although, a nice before-and-after comparison would be really useful to the other members here... Many members are interested in the X-flows.... If you do a comparo, make sure you ONLY change the rad; dont even change the fans, change nothing but the rad...

[DAK1640]

Radical_53, I just ordered the Black Ice Extreme X-Flow dual Rad and I am expecting it to arrive today. Am I gonna be happy?

[Radical_53]

@dice: Well, you know the trick right? You're only satisfied as long as you know there's nothing "really" better out there.
I'm just curious as I always try to get my cooling system in the best shape possible. So if changing the rad would give me a drop of maybe 2-3°, I'd go for it.

@dak: Well, depends on what you had before Generally speaking I'd say yes, you would be satisfied.
As I stated in my first post, I'm quite satisfied with it. I'd just like to know what kind of an improvement a different rad could be for me, as I don't want to use higher rated fans because of the noise level.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

DAK! You go the sig worked out. Glad to see that.

[Radical_53]

I'm still thinking about the comparison thing... might not be a bad idea I'll wait for some new blocks that should arrive here quite soon, test the whole thing with the BI and then with a Thermochill.
Let's see what it does... I guess my system puts enough load to see some difference there.
Anything special you'd like to see? I'd measure flow, dT with only cpu stress plus cpu/gpu stress at different fan speeds then.

[creidiki]

PA120.3, and switch those horrible SilenX for Yate Loons. 3 of them.

I have both, and while my Yate Loon D12SL-12 might be rated 26dBA and 45CFM, they push more air and do less noise tha my "14dBA 74CFM" SilenX. It was quite amusing comparing them side-by-side, esp as getting 1 D12SL shipped from the USA costs less than getting one SilenX in the EU/UK. Anyway, there's a guy on fleebay germany who sells them, and a german shop as well (forget the name). My temps are considerably better since i switched fans.

As an added bonus, they dont drip fluid bearing liquid like those SilenX do, and they dont rattle at low volts.

And if youre not already using the plexi-top and the top barb as inlet on you DDCs (or mod the standard top), do so.

[Radical_53]

You're serious about the fans? Incredible. I'll give it a try, as you said they're not really that expensive.

About the pump: I'm using two DDCs

Looks like this roughly, even if the shown is only a pre-production sample:



It has 2 inlets, one coming from the reservoir and one from the normal loop. The top makes them work in serial mode, roughly giving double the head of one pumpe alone.

[creidiki]

Yup yup, looks good, all im saying is that using the side inlet drops its performance quite a bit, so i suggested to use the top bard if you werent already - looks like youre doing it already

As to the fan's stats, everyone but Yate Loon, Panasonic, Sanyo-Denki, Delta and Papst lie, pretty much. A few others. But basically, the people who also make fans for OEM manufacturers are the only ones that give somewhat realistic stats for their fans, and then the OEM people doctor the stats up something fierce

[Radical_53]

Well ok, thanks for the info I don't like the Papst fans, so I'll check those YL. The fan you see above was my favorite before I tried the SilenX, so I think I'll take them in comparison too.

The top for two pumps is designed to have a double inlet just to the center of the first pumps rotor. Just like using the top barb on the normal acrylic top.

[creidiki]

BTW, if the cost of the PA is an issue, Cooltek in germany sells the same radiators marketed as swiftech MCR.

[Radical_53]

I'll take a look. Cost is not the main issue, but why pay more if you can get it for less?

Btw., talking about fans. What do you think of little buddies like these?



68.9 CFM @ 1700 RPM, 30 dBA, 2.16w



57.21 CFM @ 1950 RPM, 31.0 dBA, 1.68 watts



75.93 CFM @ 2000 RPM, 34.0 dBA, 1.92 watts

[creidiki]

Im a little duboius of that panaflo's stats... its likely to be more like 33-ish as far as dBA goes... good fans anyway. Some people prefer them @ 7-9v to Yates, they make noise on a different frequency, so its subjective which one annoys you the least.

As far those 2 deltas, ive always found that deltas have loud motors and bearings.

If you want the extra cfm go for it, but many people here (me included) dont even run their Yates at full volts on their PAs.

Couple of other things to remember: with low-resistance rads like the BIP/MCR/PA, push pull gives at best a couple of percentage points better performance than just push - unlike rads like the BIX and HE, these are designed to offer the least resistance to air, on tha basis that beter airflow is superior high fin density at low airflows... and that going from 45-ish CFM to 85-ish CFM will lower your temps by 1-2c at most, if your rad isnt underspecd... if youre running TECs, though its bound to be more.

Up to you to decide if the noise is worth it - overkill is the name of the game here @ xs after all - but a PA with Yates in push will already give you significanly better temps than a BIX with SilenXs in push-pull, so i suggest you give that a try 1st.

[ReD.SkY]

The BIX3 is designed for over 100cfm fans... the PA120.3 is made for low cfm silent fans

[Nazu]

BTW, if the cost of the PA is an issue, Cooltek in germany sells the same radiators marketed as swiftech MCR.

This->http://www.pc-cooling.de/ place sell's Cooltek triple rad's for 45 euro's

[andersson.j]

Radical_53: I've read the thread about that dual top over at HWLuxx but my german is terrible and google translate doesn't help much.

When and where can I get my hands on one of those tops?

[Radical_53]

@nazu: You're sure those are 100% Thermochill? They look different to me... if so, great. Less than half the price.

@red: Well, yes. Still they do perform quite good, so far the best rad I could get over here (had a standard Black Ice Extreme dual and triple before this x-flow). If there's a better choice, I always try to go for it.

@creidiki: Well, I'm searching for performance. Still I don't want too much noise. I had a 80mm Delta EHE way back and it was nice and quiet being run at 5V... I can throttle my fans from 0-12V, so that's why I thought about Deltas.
Maybe I'll get some of those Pana's and compare them to the other fans that I have here.
I'm just trying to find the best combination possible... within the limits that it has to fit into my case, is not too loud (or at least that there's an option making it quiet) and works with my fan controller (which handels ~12W per channel, so one fan shouldn't be above 4W as I do only have one channel left for my rad).

[Nazu]

@Radical_53, I didn't say that they were Thermochill I said Cooltek Cooltek Maxistream 120 mm Triple <-- I mean this and the price is 49e not 45 like I said in that first post. Cooltek Maxistream triple is little better than BIP3 and it's cheaper, but if you have the money go for the Thermochill PA.120.3.

[Radical_53]

Oh ok, now I see. I compared the pro to the extreme series, and the extreme worked better for me. So I won't go for a pro-kinda-rad.

So for now my plan is to compare the PA to my X-Flow, also looking into the fan question... I'll try to have some sets of fans here to compare it 1:1 with both rads.


@andersson: Sorry, I didn't see your post in the first place.

So, this top will be available to the public quite soon. The problem I found when testing it was because the DDC 1+ pumps needed more water than we gave them... so now we developed a reservoir "complex" to give them all the water they need to work efficiently. Quite strange though...
Also, after some other test, we want to try if serial or parallel mode works best with a "standard" setup. Maybe these pumps do already have enough head that parallel mode would give slightly better perfomance. That has to be tested still, but we're all working on it. Like the question with the rad here, trying to find the best solution and get the highest efficiency without too much noise

[Nazu]

But if your using fans that don't push lot of air like Yate Loon D12SL-12 you want a rad like BIP3 or Cooltek Maxistream. If your using fans that push lot of air 100fcm or more yoy want rad like BIX or HE series. PA series is like BIP3 and Cooltek Maxistream and therefore is intended to be used with low cfm fans. I recommend getting those Yate's that I mentioned earlier cos they have great balance with noise and cfm, very silent at 5v and 12v they push air a lot.

[creidiki]

You "compared" wrong, obviosuly, because youre using the wrong rad for your fans - a Pro would have given you better temperatures.

[Radical_53]

Honestly, I think I'll want to try that out Because right now, every test result I had so far said that even with sub-100cfm fans, the BI-X was superior to the BI-P.
I'm curious about that and I'd really like to test it out. I'm really looking forward to see how the PA performs in my system.
I tried out another rad before, low density fans but quite thick, and it was slightly behind the BI-X... so let's see.

[creidiki]

Its the other way around mate.

PA/MCR/BIP <100CFM
HE/BIX/Core >100CFM

[ReD.SkY]

im sure the PA will perform better

[Radical_53]

@creidiki: Well yes, technically there's definitely a point to this. And I want to "see" it myself I never had a Pro rad here myself, only read numerous tests, so I always went for the extreme series.

Right now I'm really looking forward to see what the PA will do. Maybe I should try to get a Pro rad for comparison too...