Let's do a guide for CHEAP DIY single stage - a competition maybe?

[jinu117]

Thanks to Bazx's suggestion, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=109486 thread,
I think proper guide for DIY cheap ss at home is in order. I know a lot of our ghetto meister has done it, taunted it, showed us some nice results.
Idea is that we gather some experience, and obtaineable part places to share in the fun for lot of people who wants to learn experience and have fun.

preface: Let's forget about all the tools in cost here. It will just make this CHEAP DIY impossible to happen. I don't condone any unit that hasn't been properly triple evac'd using inert gas, I especially don't condone propane in SS unit especially for someone who never built SS and even for those who are more experienced, I don't condone using parts that are inappropirate. We will leave these to different thread.
Goal of such project is probably about -10c evap temp with 150w load, handily in range of peltier system at hopefully fraction of cost.

First we must have parts. of course, we could look for salvage yard and hand down of previous system. But for sake of general easy to find parts, it might be good idea to find where you can source compressor cheap consistantly (e-bay comes to mind lol)

I will update part cost as I see better fit from suggestion and link up the link in the main post to help people find things easier.

Parts:

Compressor: E-bay I am thinking. I've seen decent hermatic going $40-60 shipped. Rotaries about $25-40 shipped. You could also go to proper store at decent price on rotaries. Specific link of what is known to work well would be very nice to have guys (I know some of you are master e-bay hunter... chime in :P)

Evaporator: DIY. Buying any commercial one will drive cost of project up. Some simple design that is known to work and can be brazed easy will help. Estimated cost from $6-15 would be nice. Those who had success with cap in cap and some drill, tap design, chime in.

Mounting for for Evaporator: DIY. Hopefully something easy to make for most... will depend heavily on evap design.

Suction line: Okay, I know you guys have been using homedepot stuff, etc. Find me one that is at least rated for 80-90 psi and I will let it slide in. If not, it won't get here ever... :P Cheapest for such might just as well be copper tubing... solid suction line... yes.

Condenser: Well, don't think we can be choosey so forget small condenser really, just tell me what you can find cheap that WILL work.

Fans: I hope you guys have fans up the galore... fan's are not that cheap.

Misc parts:

Schraeder valve:
1/4" copper: Isn't home depot selling 10ft for about $20 or so? I haven't checked lately. We can use this on suction too as we don't want people to spend money on 3/8... or impossible to find 5/16 for most of people.
Filter drier:
Capillary tubing:
Insulation: (if you don't want to kill components :P)


Refrigerant:
I am thinking can of r-134a. Only problem being... do they always come with oil in there? Don't want to over oil the compressor... -_-;

Consumable:
now, this is hard part. Anyone who has been building for a while will know this part can add up decently. Brazing rods, nitrogen to purge, brazing gas, and when you made up mistake, you are at it again and again till all is done... My electricity cost must be about x2 than majority of you guys as I already passed 2 tiers from general home usage ehehe... :p... But anyways... something that still need to be set for amount so people know before they jump in.

I will make one of them down the line based on what we get going and show the result (might take me some time to get there as I have projects lined up down the line... but it is just going to be project for fun on side...)

Now, another line of idea is to buy used aircon, hack it up and just work on evap side... which probably will come out cheaper than above parts list. Only thing is, you CAN'T do that unless
#1, you have EPA certification
#2, you have proper recovery system and will recover the gas.
Now, 2nd one does get into professional side of story... maybe some of you guys can run around and find out how much would they be willing to charge you for recovering gas?

[jinu117]

Rsvd

[jinu117]

Rsvd2

[Nagaru]

Some fan candidates:
DC
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G14802
http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=15375+FN

Flexline

I have no experience with these, but the copper lines used to install water heaters are flexible. They are very cheap too, here they are only $7.99 for a 24 inch line. Although I have not seen a preasure rating I would assume that they are good for at least 90 PSI, as they are used for water.

Edited to add Flexline section.

[jinu117]

Some fan candidates:
DC
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G14802
http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=15375+FN

Flexline

I have no experience with these, but the copper lines used to install water heaters are flexible. They are very cheap to here they are only $7.99 for a 24 inch line. Although I have not seen a preasure rating I would assume that they are good for at least 90 PSI, as they are used for water.

Edited to add Flexline section.

Damn good find in the fan especially the papst. Now, that water flex looks like good candidate for these ghetto build as it is #1, copper easier to braze, #2 it is at least rated for 90psi as you have mentioned. Only bad thing is repeated flexing probably won't be good idea but geez, we are not looking for benching system or 24x7 really :P
Didn't know water pressure can go that high (eek: found out my town has 85 psi)...

[C-BuZz]

I'll contriubte to a good cause

Here is my $10AUD HollowVap. $10AUD for both the 38mm x 20mm AND 38mm x 5mm LID INCLUDING CUTTING IT TO SIZE!!! I bought 5 of these heh. Vap dimensions: 38mm x 30mm including lid. Internal wall dimensions 3mm base x 3mm walls x 5mm lid.

Just a block with lid. Drilled the entire guts out so its completely hollow inside, which will allow a fair bit of refrigerant in there (good for absorbing all that heat). Got the cap comming through an access valve pointing directly at the base of the evap. Havent had a chance to test it yet as i've got no parts. Only flamloaded it heh. Was frozen the entire time with the flame on it, which was about 3hours.






Flexi suction line was $25AUD from my local Kirby shop, can also get from Pirtek or Enzo. Rated down to -75c/2000psig. Screws straight onto the access valve. So that's a total of $35AUD around $23/$25USD? for block & suction line heh..

C-BuZz

[johann]

evap looks fine for cheaply made system, after all the oldstyle vapochill evap is an empty can also

[C-BuZz]

evap looks fine for cheaply made system, after all the oldstyle vapochill evap is an empty can also

Funny you should mention that, as I debrased one just the other day out of couriosity. To my surprise I found this. Hard gunk inside which flaked off when scratched.



But this is kindof OT.

C-BuZz

[bazx]

that has given me an idear

if you take a hollow evap and fill with odd shape bits of copper even small blocks jumbled up

[C-BuZz]

that has given me an idear

if you take a hollow evap and fill with odd shape bits of copper even small blocks jumbled up

I was actually thiniking stuff it full of mesh? Like copper mesh or somthing. Would slow the refrig down inside the evap.

But hey, I really dont think it's necessary & I dont see why this wouldnt perform really well anyway.

C-BuZz

[bazx]

I was actually thiniking stuff it full of mesh? Like copper mesh or somthing. Would slow the refrig down inside the evap.

But hey, I really dont think it's necessary & I dont see why this wouldnt perform really well anyway.

C-BuZz

true and we are looking for a -10 loaded

[aasmaukr]

For flex suction, check the 'Fan Coil Assemblies' at bes.ltd.uk. They take 70bar. Available in 1/2", 30, 45 and 60cm.
They come with 1/2" BSP connectors.

Price is £6.01 or £5.80 for 30cm, £9.21 or £9.42 for 60cm.

Check 'Ref and aircon'/'Insulation, Flexible Connectors, Clips'

They also have cheap Armaflex, and other nice stuff.

[Nagaru]

that has given me an idear

if you take a hollow evap and fill with odd shape bits of copper even small blocks jumbled up

NoL was talking about this a while ago.

[Nagaru]

Damn good find in the fan especially the papst. Now, that water flex looks like good candidate for these ghetto build as it is #1, copper easier to braze, #2 it is at least rated for 90psi as you have mentioned. Only bad thing is repeated flexing probably won't be good idea but geez, we are not looking for benching system or 24x7 really :P
Didn't know water pressure can go that high (eek: found out my town has 85 psi)...

I think we used to have 120 psi, and our regulator doesn't work well so we would get that in the house.

Sorry didn't mean to post twice.

[jinu117]

Yeah his got some neat idea... not easy to make but neat.
Anyways, what do you guys think about actually making competition of sort with requiring people to show receipt for all part etc?
Bazx just told me about that and I like the idea. Prize, I will think about something... or people can contirbute :P

[Nagaru]

Sounds good what would the criteria be, price then lowest temp?

[jinu117]

I think criteria would be more of...

minimum requirement Load temp of -10c (as long as you got decent CPU running at high voltage with dual prime for long time and screen will do the job... something like dual core amd over 1.6v, single core amd over 1.7v, conroe over 1.6v, presler over 1.55v)

Price - 50%
Extra performance - 25%.
Cleanliness and prompt build - 25%
how does that sound?

[Nagaru]

Good although you may want to add ease of availability of parts, and saftey.

Also the tools used may help, as some people may have access to mills and lathes which most first time builders wouldn't.

[bazx]

I would enter and work within the rules and budget you lay down just to show I am up for it as I believe it will be a real challenge for me as I normally just buy the best so this will be harder for me and fun

[Nagaru]

I might participate, at least I would end up with a SS in the end.

[n00b 0f l337]

I think I could win that competition, so I'm in.

[SoddemFX]

Old R600 fridge compressor, you can vent the existing system into the atmosphere legally and it would be good for propane.

Propane as refrigerant. I understand the reason for no flammable refrigerants, but i'd like to think that anyone who can responsibly use a propane torch has the common sense to charge a unit with the same.

Square evap made on a bench press drill (maze stlye like Kayl used to make

Flexible copper water pipe for the suction line. I dont think the BES Ltd fan coil assembly is suitable, theyre too large and cumbersome for a small single stage.

Condensor - 1/4" copper pipe in a separated coil with rods soldered perpendicular would probably be ok for r134a, but i think that a bought condensor which can be bought from a member of this forums online shop in the UK for £25 is worth the investment.

Tools are a large problem. Sure using £1000+ of machine tools and charging equiptment i could probably build a unit for £50, but i dont think this is representative of the audience we are targeting. Manifold, lines and vacuum pump (wether home made or bespoke) alone would add at least £100 to the build.

We know it is not "the way" but is it possible to construct a working (just working, nothing more) single stage without a charging manifold or vacuum pump?

Tom

[n00b 0f l337]

We know it is not "the way" but is it possible to construct a working (just working, nothing more) single stage without a charging manifold or vacuum pump?

Spare compressor for vacuum pump if you want to include that in cost, but thats tools. Without manifold you just hook evap to system and charge for lowest temp at load i geuss?

[SoddemFX]

With an applied load of a known size, thermometer, compressor datasheet and an appropriately sized capillary tube, you could probably make a reasonably accurate "guess-timate" of superheat. So maybe. Obviously not for the competition, it just got me thinking...

Tom

[johann]

I think I'd win that competition, so I'm in.

lol I would enter this just to kick your ass, why are you so sure you will win it? You the only ghetto phase builder out there?