The LCD Buyers Guide

[Soulburner]

OT-Great! article/Review on MICE! http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679

Yeah I saw it. I'm just skeptical because I used to own an MX500 and I like the 1000 a lot better. Since the 518 has the exact same case I really don't feel like stepping back in time to a supposedly better mouse. It just isn't comfortable for me for daily use.

[rodman]

How does this monitor stack up against a 22inch crt in motion blurr? I would like to replace my crt but the lcds get blurry when the action gets going. However this one looks like it may fit the bill

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236011

[Soulburner]

That's a real steep price for a 22". For that, I would just spend a little more and get a Dell 24".

[awhir]

guys were can i get the SCEPTRE x22wg i am willing to pay for shipping from america.

i found 1 on ebay but with shipping it comes out at around 380euro is it worth this ??

[awhir]

i can get it off tigerdirect.com for the same price

dont think it is worth 380 euros

any other ideas

[Teratism]

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...=SCEPTRE+x22wg

[awhir]

are they the only sites that sell it boo because tiger are the only guys and it works out exp

[Coastal_Eddy]

are they the only sites that sell it boo because tiger are the only guys and it works out exp

See my post (4th one down) dated December 1st with all of the sources for the Sceptre x22wg. Don't know if there are any new sources since that list was compiled.

[mset]

Hi guys

From the OP

"TN panels have become the "gamer's panel" for some time because it sacrifices colour representation, image quality and viewing angles for the best response time possible".

I'm looking for an LCD in the $400-$450 range. My needs are the exact opposite from those of a gamer. I've picked out a few but it turns out that they're all S-IPS (i.e. HP LP2065). I was a bit surprised to read in the OP, from mid-2005, that S-IPS might be 'on the way out in favour of PVA/MVA panels'.

I ordered the new Dell E228WFP on a Boxing day deal ($250 US)... and I had to send it back. It's a 22" TN panel, and I just couldn't deal with the backlight bleed, the weird geometric shadows (dithering?), the washed out colour and the fact that image elements of the same colour looked radically different depending on location (viewing angle issue).

So I'm sure newbs are always on here asking 'which monitor should I get?' Instead, I'll just ask this - if I'm a non-gamer, who doesn't watch movies, whose priorities are colour representation, image quality and viewing angles, given the state of the technology today, should I concentrate my search on MVA panels only or are there more recent S-IPS panels that will work well for me?

Last, can anyone tell me the difference between Prem.MVA panels and simple MVA, as described below? I've been using this guide to figure out which monitors have which panels

http://axofiber.no-ip.org/inside/monitor.lcd.panels.htm

(If anyone feels like chiming in with a specific reco in the $400-450 range, please feel free - Samsung 215TW? HP LP2065? ).

Thanks

[Teratism]

A quick informative evaluation. I have the Benq FP202W widescreen monitor, I haven't totally calibrated it yet but the monitor has tearing, ghosting which is easily noticeable in games, and quick moving videos, is very grainy also. I would advise you to stay away from this monitor.

[mset]

A quick informative evaluation. I have the Benq FP202W widescreen monitor, I haven't totally calibrated it yet but the monitor has tearing, ghosting which is easily noticeable in games, and quick moving videos, is very grainy also. I would advise you to stay away from this monitor.

thank you.

btw... nice screen name

[Teratism]

Thanks for the compliment.

I can't recommend an exact model but If I had to say 4 brands on pure Image quality it would be LaCie, Nec, LG, Phillips. Maybe Forcam as a fifth. The rest of the brands lean a little more to the gaming side than image.

[mset]

Thanks for the compliment.

I can't recommend an exact model but If I had to say 4 brands on pure Image quality it would be LaCie, Nec, LG, Phillips. Maybe Forcam as a fifth. The rest of the brands lean a little more to the gaming side than image.

Hmmm... thanks. It's unfortunate that the list you mentioned doesn't contain any of the names I was looking at (mainly HP, Samsung). I have read a lot of good things about NEC's higher end monitors.

I will check out LaCie and Forcam tomorrow. Thanks again.

I know LG/Phillips manufactures a lot of panels for other builders.

[Teratism]

LaCie are a leader in Image quality for crt and lcd or they were if things have changed since I last checked, they are expensive as hell though.

Forcam is a very allusive you might as well give up on finding one of those.

Yeah LG electronics and Phillips make the panels for most of the other screens. Phillips I think has the best then would go LG. LaCie is more for if you need close to perfection monitors. The higher end NEC are good too. All will be relatively expensive.

[Death_Eagle_571]

Anyone have the SAMSUNG 931C?? It seems like its a very good monitor with 250 cd/m2 and a 2000:1 Contrast Ratio as well as a 2ms response time, it seems like its better than the Viewsonic VX922...

[shifty803]

Well, I got my 300$ Sceptre x22wg-Gamer off Costco so that I can return it if I change my mind or whatever.

So far my impressions are good. My old LCD was a 17" NEC Multisync 1760V or something. I believe that would be either one of the original PVA or IPS panels.

Overall, I would say that the new one with Chi Mei's TN film has color almost as good. Due to the use of RTC, banding is extremely minimal. Black levels are a little worse than my old one, but not by much. My white point looks really nice though, with very good contrast. Like everyone says, there is some minor bleeding top and bottom, but I only notice this during bootup or watching a fullscreen movie. With the lamp at "0", it is really not an issue.

Twinkling was also not really noticeable unless I put my nose right up to the screen. At a distance of about 3' or so, which is how far back I sit from my monitor, I can't see it at all. Input lag is very, very slight. I noticed it the tiniest bit the day I switch from my old NEC, but after a day I can't even tell. In BF2142 I got two gold medals in a row last night, and my Tom Clancy Rainbow Six skills (a true twitch FPS game) are not diminished either.

I will be able to calibrate with a Spyder2Pro shortly, and will have to tell you all how that goes once I do it. From what I've read, color reproduction is okay in the midtones, and a little worse in the brights. Honestly, a calibrated TN panel is going to better than most people's P-MVAs that are uncalibrated. Some of those ship with terrible settings, and the human eye is a poor calibration instrument.

Overall, I am very happy. The 22" size is much better than my 20" at work as far as web surfing and things like that go. The dot pitch on the 20" is just too small for me, and I have 20-20 vision. Windows XP has half-a$$ed desktop scaling, otherwise it might be okay.

For the money, I am completely satisfied. I am also considering returning this at some point to costco for a BenQ 24" with the P-MVA panel, but I probably won't. I'd rather put the money towards an even bigger 1080p TV when the time comes.

[KoHaN69]

Hey guys, I'm getting sick of my Dell 2405 - want something better.
Primary it's due to the giigantic 1920x1200 resolution my x1900 can't handle
-that and the gray blacks

Do any 1680x1050 monitors support 4:3 native (1400x1050 ?) with black bars?

Here are my choices:

dell 2407
Viewsonic ViewDock 22" VX2245wm
Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer
Viewsonic 22" VX2235wm
Envision 22" G22LWK
Dell E207FP 20.1"
X2GEN 22" MW22U

All of them can be seen here:
http://www.costco.com/Common/Search....ch=lcd&topnav=

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

[thinkingbear]

http://www.costco.com/Common/Search....ch=lcd&topnav=

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

AFAIK all those 22" wide screens you list are using the same Chi Mei panels so it comes down to the engineering implementation, ergonomics, adjustments, etc. The Sceptre is intriguing because it is the only 22" W inthat group that includes an HDMI input, but at only $250 I am thinking about taking a leap on the X2Gen as a secondary gaming/DVD monitor to go with the Viewsonic VP201B I use when I need a real 16.7M colors. Hard to go wrong with Costco's return policy.

[shifty803]

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

First of all, let me say that I have the x22wg-gamer and I like it quite a bit for my purposes. However, NEVER believe what the various companies quote as their contrast ratio. It is one of the cases where different measurement techniques can makes the numbers say whatever they want. Ditto on this for the response time. Response time varies at different color changes - it is never constant.

That being said, I find the black levels on my monitor surprisingly good for a TN panel. I don't quite jump on the bandwagon of people who say that color reproduction on a true 8-bit panel will blow away a 6-bit with dithering and FRC, etc...

I will say that a calibration tool is a MUST for good color. The difference between my uncalibrated LCD and calibrated is like night and day. It affects everything, from color reproduction and accuracy to white and black levels to gamma. Just get a Spyder2express and you will thank me, I guarantee. If you care about the way your screen will look for years to come, it will be the best 70$ you ever spent.

Since your main concern is black levels, I recommend an P-MVA panel, because their black level is superior to S-IPS and TN panels. There are currently not 22" panels that use P-MVA, however 24" and 20" panels exist. Here are two that I believe would suit your purposes very well, depending on the size you want.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/guides/v...c_vx2025wm.htm
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...nufacture=BENQ

TFT central has a lot of excellent articles about LCD technology (panel types, pluses and minuses of each, etc...). I learned most of my general info from them.

Edit: If running games or other devices at 1:1 pixel mapping is an issue for you, only the BenQ 24" has that built in from the two I mentioned. Otherwise you are left to your graphics card drivers. That is something to keep in mind. 1:1 mapping was one of the main reasons I bought the monitor I did instead of another.

[Soulburner]

So using the 6500k color option isn't good enough?

About the response time, that's why they advertise it was GTG - Green to Green response time.

[shifty803]

GTG means gray to gray, and that is usually the most relevant transition, but not always. I think alot of people don't realize that.

But anyway, yeah, the "Medium" or 6500K setting is pretty bad once you calibrate and see the difference. None of the settings are really close.

Basically the way it works is, you use "Recall" to reset to factory defaults, set lamp to about 1 (or zero if you like a dim monitor - I think 1 is optimal), and then just let it do its thing. The difference is massive.

I can't recommend calibration enough. If you look at sites like Les Numeriques, you will notice that the x22wg-gamer (which uses the same panel as that Acer - CMO TN) has really quite good color reproduction. You see it compared to the 2007 with the S-IPS panel, one of the best you can buy. The CMO TN doesn't look bad at all! Anything < 1 is perfect, anything between 1 and 2 is really hard to see unless you are a pro. But you will never get it right by eye. You need hardware to achieve that.

But the main thing that impressed me was the improvement in Black levels. WOW. You have to see it to believe. It won't magically beat a P-MVA panel, but it is just incredible how much better it can get than "by eye" settings or factory defaults settings.

Edit: To see the color comparison after calibration, go to "Rendu des couleurs apres calibration" in the third (bottom) menu. It helps when you have a girlfriend who is a French citizen .

[shifty803]

I should mention this in case anyone takes my advice and gets a Spyder2Express. This is IMPORTANT.

Do NOT install the software that comes with the colorimeter. Go to the Colorvision website and get the latest version (2.3.3) and install that instead. Then plug in your colorimeter and let it auto-detect and search for the drivers automatically from the install you just did. This will avoid an annoying bug in Windows XP that gives you an error message even though there is no error. The more important fix in that version is that previously, LCDs were calibrated to native white point, which you don't want. The new version calibrates to 6500K, which is optimal.

Also critical is to get rid of Adobe gamma or any other color profiling software that might be installed on your computer.

This isn't as much of an issue if you have the more expensive Spyder2Pro, however. On those you can set the white point manually, among other things.

[KoHaN69]

AFAIK all those 22" wide screens you list are using the same Chi Mei panels

Well that sucks
one company says 1200:1 another 700:1 for the same panel?

Thanks for all the info shifty803, I heard BenQ 24" is the best.

I'll probably tr out the 2407 first, just to see if there's any improvement from 2405

[Soulburner]

I calibrated mine using 3 sample images as shown in my review of the monitor. However, that is limited to the human eye. I was able to get the lights, darks and black levels pretty close though.

I may consider one of those with my next 120Hz 24" monitor but not for this one.

shifty803, can you tell me what the bars on those charts are referring to? That site has me confused. I am trying to compare against the BenQ 24".

[shifty803]

Honestly, this is not my profession, so I don't know exactly how the "delta E" measurement is done. What I do know is that, in general, it is a measurement of the monitor's accuracy in producing a color.

Neutral gray is 128-128-128 according to software, so if your monitor tries to produce the same color and it is a little off, you will have xx delta E, where "xx" is a measure of how much off it is.

The scale works like this:

< 1 = color reproduction almost perfect
1 - 2 = color reproduction close enough that it is very difficult to notice inaccuracies
2 - 3 = things are getting a worse now, although not terrible
3+ = accuracy is well off, and color difference will be noticeable

Here is a little summary on behardware's site.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...lorimeter.html

Edit: The Spyder2Express does not plot you a delta E graph when you're done, but the calibration is effectively the same as the much more expensive Spyder2Pro (but only for 2.2 gamma and 6500K, which is all SPyder2Express calibrates to). However, if you don't already have a Pro, it is really not worth it unless you are a graphic designer or something.