Kepler Nvidia GeForce GTX 780

[paulbagz]

Also;



AMD really need to get something out there.

-PB

[Sushi Warrior]

Also;



AMD really need to get something out there.

-PB

What are the clocks for that 770? Massive jump, that's a 15% increase, no way that's the same as rumours of a 50mHz core boost and 500mHz memory boost. Those clocks would give maybe a 10% lead at most, which brings it equal to a 7970.

[BababooeyHTJ]

What are the clocks for that 770? Massive jump, that's roughly a 25% increase, no way that's the same as rumours of a 50mHz core boost and 500mHz memory boost.

Yeah, I'm not buying those results for a second.

[Rollo]

Also;



AMD really need to get something out there.

-PB

This year is pretty much written off for AMD at the high end.

However, if they can do a good job with their frame metering drivers, they can limp along by undercutting NV on pricing as they have been doing with intel in the CPU market.

They really should run with my closed loop cooler Platinum Edition card. You heard me AMD- it's time to resurrect the Phantom Edition name, and put out a water cooled out of the box 7970.

a. Gets people talking about your products again.
b. 10% more performance on the GHz Edition puts it at least in consideration with the 780. Currently anyone willing to spend over $500 only has NV choices.

And while you're at it AMD- put that closed loop on the 7990 and make it more competitive. Or throw in an FX8350 with the 7990 and keep selling it for $1000.. As they sell FX8350s for $200, and two GHZ 7970s for ~$800, that combo should still be profitable to sell.

[Rollo]

Yeah, I'm not buying those results for a second.

If those results are true, I have to wonder if 770 is a detuned* 780. NVIDIA putting all 110s in the pipeline that don't make Titan testing.

*Another cluster of cores disabled/failed

[Sushi Warrior]

This year is pretty much written off for AMD at the high end.

However, if they can do a good job with their frame metering drivers, they can limp along by undercutting NV on pricing as they have been doing with intel in the CPU market.

They really should run with my closed loop cooler Platinum Edition card. You heard me AMD- it's time to resurrect the Phantom Edition name, and put out a water cooled out of the box 7970.

a. Gets people talking about your products again.
b. 10% more performance on the GHz Edition puts it at least in consideration with the 780. Currently anyone willing to spend over $500 only has NV choices.

And while you're at it AMD- put that closed loop on the 7990 and make it more competitive. Or throw in an FX8350 with the 7990 and keep selling it for $1000.. As they sell FX8350s for $200, and two GHZ 7970s for ~$800, that combo should still be profitable to sell.

Man, your ideas are just TERRIBLE The instant AMD decides it's a great idea to launch a water cooled GPU because you have the greatest idea ever I will start walking dogs for a living 7970GE already pushes Tahiti past the power efficiency curve, asking for MORE clocks out of it would lead to a Fermi problem for AMD. Hawaii really is not as far off as everyone thinks. Just think rationally for a minute before you get too carried away with "I told you so!".

[Lanek]

Yeah, I'm not buying those results for a second.

Depend the games used.. most of thoses games here are the games where the 680 is still really close or even faster of a Ghz edition ( AC3, BL2, Batman, FC3 ) .. + some otheir results are not even possible for the 7970 and 780 ( farcry3 ) untill they have completely remove AA. ( 65 and 71fps is 15fps more of what you see on review of the 780 ). On some other, the results look on paar for the 780 and ghz for the review.

[BababooeyHTJ]

Those 770 and 780 results are far closer than what I saw with an overclocked 680 and a stock Titan at 2560x1440.

some otheir results are not even possible for the 7970 and 780 ( farcry3 ) untill they have completely remove AA. ( 65 and 71fps is 15fps more of what you see on review of the 780 )

Thats a very good point.

[Olivon]

My guess is that's because they used HBAO (better results with nVidia cards) instead of HDAO.
With HDAO mode activated + MSAA 4X 1080p, 680 and 7970GE perform almost the same in this game.

[DefStar]

This year is pretty much written off for AMD at the high end.

However, if they can do a good job with their frame metering drivers, they can limp along by undercutting NV on pricing as they have been doing with intel in the CPU market.

They really should run with my closed loop cooler Platinum Edition card. You heard me AMD- it's time to resurrect the Phantom Edition name, and put out a water cooled out of the box 7970.

a. Gets people talking about your products again.
b. 10% more performance on the GHz Edition puts it at least in consideration with the 780. Currently anyone willing to spend over $500 only has NV choices.

And while you're at it AMD- put that closed loop on the 7990 and make it more competitive. Or throw in an FX8350 with the 7990 and keep selling it for $1000.. As they sell FX8350s for $200, and two GHZ 7970s for ~$800, that combo should still be profitable to sell.

Do you chill the 7970's VRMs with water? Because they need it...I made custom sinks to cool my 7950's VRMs, I can run the core up to 1230 MHZ and keep the VRMs below 80 C even after hours of Unigine Heaven. As such, the card is stable for any duration of time.

[paulbagz]

Yeah, I'm not buying those results for a second.

Their graphs were accurate for the 780.

-PB

[Rollo]

Man, your ideas are just TERRIBLE The instant AMD decides it's a great idea to launch a water cooled GPU because you have the greatest idea ever I will start walking dogs for a living 7970GE already pushes Tahiti past the power efficiency curve, asking for MORE clocks out of it would lead to a Fermi problem for AMD. Hawaii really is not as far off as everyone thinks. Just think rationally for a minute before you get too carried away with "I told you so!".

1. If Gigabyte can get 1100MHz base clocks out of Tahiti, AMD can get 1200 with some binning and water cooling that pulls air from outside the case. Selling it at $550 makes it $100 less than a 780 and a "new" high end product. As GHz Editions sell for $450, that gives them $100 for a closed loop cooler plus whatever GHz coolers cost. (as you wouldn't need one of those with the water)
As the "GHz Edition" itself if a new cooling solution and some factory OCing, it's pretty obvious AMD likes ideas like "a new cooling solution and factory OCing" as a refresh, and I sent this to one of their staffers.
I really hope they make the card, because if they do, I'll buy a dog and have it kenneled in your city and pay you some tip money to walk it.

2. Nice source-less rumor "Hawaii is comin' soon!".

3. The bundles of games are getting stale and the FX8350 bundle a. wouldn't cost much more b. if you took the seven games away and added the FX8350 the profit margin should be close c. you could give the option, game or chips to appeal to a wider base of customers d. giving people FX8350s gets AMD cpus in people's boxes

The fact of the matter is AMD is getting slammed in the high end GPU market, and slammed in the desktop CPU market.

They need creative ideas to sell the products they have to sell- not products coming 6 - 10 months from now.

[Sushi Warrior]

1. If Gigabyte can get 1100MHz base clocks out of Tahiti, AMD can get 1200 with some binning and water cooling that pulls air from outside the case. Selling it at $550 makes it $100 less than a 780 and a "new" high end product. As GHz Editions sell for $450, that gives them $100 for a closed loop cooler plus whatever GHz coolers cost. (as you wouldn't need one of those with the water)
As the "GHz Edition" itself if a new cooling solution and some factory OCing, it's pretty obvious AMD likes ideas like "a new cooling solution and factory OCing" as a refresh, and I sent this to one of their staffers.
I really hope they make the card, because if they do, I'll buy a dog and have it kenneled in your city and pay you some tip money to walk it.

2. Nice source-less rumor "Hawaii is comin' soon!".

3. The bundles of games are getting stale and the FX8350 bundle a. wouldn't cost much more b. if you took the seven games away and added the FX8350 the profit margin should be close c. you could give the option, game or chips to appeal to a wider base of customers d. giving people FX8350s gets AMD cpus in people's boxes

The fact of the matter is AMD is getting slammed in the high end GPU market, and slammed in the desktop CPU market.

They need creative ideas to sell the products they have to sell- not products coming 6 - 10 months from now.

1. AMD would be laughed into tomorrow for trying to sell a GPU with a WCing loop as a first party product. Sure, MSI or HIS or Sapphire or Asus or what have you could launch that by themselves, as with the "7990's" that came before the actual launch, but that's just a ridiculous idea for a first party product. It's just not something that makes sense in the market.

2. Not a source-less rumour It's not as far off as everyone is speculating.

3. Yes, the bundles are getting stale, but trust me, they cost AMD almost NOTHING to add in, an FX8350? Not exactly something you want to give away.

AMD is just recently getting slammed, up until now they were doing just fine, trust me they have not given up on the high end market, they just can't ALWAYS have the #1 chip, that is the nature of alternating releases from Nvidia and AMD. 7970 was beating 680 until Nvidia decided to release GK110, which isn't a huge profit leader for them in comparison to their Tesla cards (ie. given the bad yields of 110, they'd rather sell it as a Tesla card than as a Titan or GTX780). AMD will be kicking Titan's ass in a few months, and without becoming a GTX480 egg fryer either

Creative ideas are often impractical. Makes no sense to rush a silly product out to market now when Hawaii is so close .....

[DefStar]

Also;



AMD really need to get something out there.

-PB

I don't see a single game that is unplayable with the 7970 GE. In fact, it performs solid enough to give a visually flawless performance in every single game... at a reasonable price I should add. So why, do they need to do something right now? They just need to finish fixing their frame latency drivers, then their original plan of using a smaller die size to keep prices down and competing in the high-end with dual GPU cards will be FULLY realized...that's how AMD has been playing it for a few years now. Nvidia should have always had the faster single GPU, but it took them until now to finally fix the thing. Everything thing is just back to normal...and I'm still going with performance/value. AMD has made all the right moves GPU wise, that's why they are in every new game system. Nvidia went with an insanely huge and expensive design that nets (Now Fully Realized) 15% more performance... and every game system developer told them no. AMD was wise to develop affordable GPUs, consumers now get great graphics on home game systems, tablets, MACs, and PCs at affordable prices.
Very soon, Crossfire is going to Actually work for the first time...ever...and 2 7950s costing $600 is going to outpace any $1K Nvidia setup. Nvidia wants to take the focus off multi-gpu setups because of this...because its finally going to be what it was suppose to be in the beginning. Now, if I was Nvida I would not have fixed or even suggested their was a fix for multi-gpu frame latencies. They kind of shot themselves in the foot here, because now AMD is already/going to fix it...and I've already got a big' ol power supply for running it. Kudos to Nvida. I mean they made a couple quick and dirty sales on their big boy Titan since everybody is scared of the frame latency problem with multi-gpu setups...but if the frame latency problem on multi gpu setups is getting fixed...then what's the point of buying a Titan or 780 when I can get ~150% or 175% their performance at 92% or 60% the cost (respectively) with crossfired 7950s when the driver gets fixed.
Of course at this moment, the driver isn't fixed and if you have 6 monitors to run then you probably can't wait to spend $ sensibly. You could have helped a kid out with his college tuition or paid someone to walk your dog but f-it, Nvidas been so good to you and is so hard up to make a sale go-ahead and give them the extra money, because i'm not going to... unless AMD truly can't fix their drivers, until then i'm giving AMD the benefit of the doubt.
P.S. Crossfire really sucks balls at the moment.

[BababooeyHTJ]

Nvidia hasn't had this sort of a lead in performance since G80 so no we aren't "back to normal".

I do agree that their prices are competitive at $350 and less.

There are also quite a few games that would be unplayable at 2560x1400 on a 7970 especially if you're like me and enjoy using SSAA.

It still remains to be seen if AMD hits the nail right on the head with a microstutter fix on their first try. I wouldn't bet on it. I hope that they do but I wouldn't make a decision expecting it. I still say 7950 crossfire is a hell of a deal even now. On a 60hz display that'll push framerates high enough to use a cap in the vast majority of games.

P.S. Crossfire really sucks balls at the moment.

Have you used crossfire? In general it scales well. They've also been on the ball with new releases for quite a while now other than far cry 3 for some odd reason. The only real issue that I had was the microstutter which can be worked around. Since you use a 120hz display a cap really wouldn't be ideal for you.

[HWaddict]

High-End PC's takes whatever software you throws at it without a flinch.

Played Skyrim in HD Ultra High and noticed the fans slowly rev up, so I wondering witch category of users top notch GPU's aiming at.

[Sushi Warrior]

Nvidia hasn't had this sort of a lead in performance since G80 so no we aren't "back to normal".

I do agree that their prices are competitive at $350 and less.

There are also quite a few games that would be unplayable at 2560x1400 on a 7970 especially if you're like me and enjoy using SSAA.

It still remains to be seen if AMD hits the nail right on the head with a microstutter fix on their first try. I wouldn't bet on it. I hope that they do but I wouldn't make a decision expecting it. I still say 7950 crossfire is a hell of a deal even now. On a 60hz display that'll push framerates high enough to use a cap in the vast majority of games.

Well AMD has switched places with Nvidia so to speak, it went from Nvidia being power efficient and small (G80/G92) to AMD being the smaller die efficiency leader, and right now Nvidia has the ability to do both because of their Tesla line... I don't think it makes excellent economical sense to try to fight the Titan, but from a "brand image" point evidently the halo card really matters.

The microstutter drivers fix the problems in any major game, at the cost of maybe 5-10% performance. No runts, no "dropped" frames (PS: FCAT is measure dropped frames wrong on AMD cards, it's not accurate...). Don't know why it isn't released though given it's current state.

[BababooeyHTJ]

The microstutter drivers fix the problems in any major game, at the cost of maybe 5-10% performance. No runts, no "dropped" frames (PS: FCAT is measure dropped frames wrong on AMD cards, it's not accurate...). Don't know why it isn't released though given it's current state.

We'll see what happens once its out in the wild.

Runts and dropped frames aren't the only cause of microstutter btw. That wouldn't explain the microstutter that is clearly there when using vsync. There are clearly timing issues aside from these runts. I'm very skeptical that they'll hit the nail right on the head on their first try.

[Sushi Warrior]

We'll see what happens once its out in the wild.

Runts and dropped frames aren't the only cause of microstutter btw. That wouldn't explain the microstutter that is clearly there when using vsync. There are clearly timing issues aside from these runts. I'm very skeptical that they'll hit the nail right on the head on their first try.

Microstutter with Vsync? I don't ever use Vsync, could you explain what you mean?

Runts are the only "major" issue with AMD cards though. If runts were entirely removed, Nvidia has only a marginally smoother experience, it's essentially invisible in a blind test. I think any other source of stutter is very, very minor and not really what makes crossfire considered as "broken".

[BababooeyHTJ]

Microstutter with Vsync? I don't ever use Vsync, could you explain what you mean?

Meaning gameplay isn't as smooth as it should be or would be with a single card. There is a reason that people have been using a hard cap for years to eliminate microstutter. Vsync alone doesn't do it.

Runts are the only "major" issue with AMD cards though. If runts were entirely removed, Nvidia has only a marginally smoother experience, it's essentially invisible in a blind test.

I don't think that is true. They need to fix the timing issues that allow these runts to take place. These timing issues still manifest in other ways.
You can't have a runt frame with vsync enabled yet it clearly isn't as smooth as it should be. There has to be some other timing issues.

Here is one discussion about it on Rage3d.

[Sushi Warrior]

Meaning gameplay isn't as smooth as it should be or would be with a single card. There is a reason that people have been using a hard cap for years to eliminate microstutter. Vsync alone doesn't do it.

I don't think that is true. They need to fix the timing issues that allow these runts to take place. These timing issues still manifest in other ways.
You can't have a runt frame with vsync enabled yet it clearly isn't as smooth as it should be. There has to be some other timing issues.

So the issue they are mentioning is input latency, not anything to do with frame times. I can't comment on input latency, but I can comment on frametimes. It's very difficult to record any kind of input latency, but frame timing can be semi-easily documented... Also those Vsync problems would presumably be fixed if the driver works as intended ("double rendering" would never happen, even Vsync'd frames would be metered).

[hokiealumnus]

Another EVGA Superclocked ACX review: http://www.overclockers.com/evga-gtx...cs-card-review

[DefStar]

Nvidia hasn't had this sort of a lead in performance since G80 so no we aren't "back to normal".

I do agree that their prices are competitive at $350 and less.

There are also quite a few games that would be unplayable at 2560x1400 on a 7970 especially if you're like me and enjoy using SSAA.

It still remains to be seen if AMD hits the nail right on the head with a microstutter fix on their first try. I wouldn't bet on it. I hope that they do but I wouldn't make a decision expecting it. I still say 7950 crossfire is a hell of a deal even now. On a 60hz display that'll push framerates high enough to use a cap in the vast majority of games.



Have you used crossfire? In general it scales well. They've also been on the ball with new releases for quite a while now other than far cry 3 for some odd reason. The only real issue that I had was the microstutter which can be worked around. Since you use a 120hz display a cap really wouldn't be ideal for you.

Well, I guess we can just agree to disagree then...I don't have anything else to say on the matter except that I have used two 6950s in crossfire. Unfortunatley, at the same time I had also bought an FX-4100 for my gaing rig and I could never utilize more than 80% of my GPU power due to the FX-4100 bottle-necking the system. I couldn't return the CPU or the GPUs so I ended up just selling both 6950s on Ebay. As far as crossfire sucking balls, I was only referring to the frame latency issues when using crossfire...other than that Yes, crossfire works beautifully. I'm not buying a new GPU until AMD releases their frame latency fix. If they fix the problem then I will get another 7950. If they don't fix the problem, I will be buying Nvidia.

[paulbagz]

Another EVGA Superclocked ACX review: http://www.overclockers.com/evga-gtx...cs-card-review

My two turned up yesterday

-PB

[highoctane]

Some nice gains with OC'ing

http://anandtech.com/show/6980/nvidi...ocking-results