360 Radiator Shootout Begins!..

[Martinm210]

lol..didn't plan any structure to this thread. Just a fun starter on the work ahead. I'm only disturbed about the thought of where my pens went..had a whole bunch of them in my paper drawer and I think the kids found my stash..

[SkItZo]

Is it wrong that i got a semi when i saw this announcement?

[Martinm210]

Updated the OP with results so far, I'll keep adding to this rather than start new threads for every single rad.

[NickF]

Thanks for doing all this Martin!

[Martinm210]

Thanks!

Just finished the SR-1 and updated the charts. GTX is up next...

[meanmoe]

You've already covered all the rads that I own. Amazing that there's really only a ~<=25W disparity in the quiet range so far (considering your estimated fan bias). I assume that it's even less for better performing loops, right?

Thanks Martin.

[junkun13]

Can you add a hwlab xflow 360 xtreme?

[Trox]

I cant belive there is only that difference is dissipated watts, going highend on a radiotor es overrated then..

[Martinm210]

Yeah, I'm still not quite sure what to think of the actual wattage numbers. They generally seem low, but all the rads are being tested the same, so relative performance should be ok. I guess insulating the lines and adding the enclosure to minimize heat losses makes a bigger difference than I thought. I always new open air rad testing was a problem if there is any changes in air flow in the area of testing. I am probably also getting a touch of restriction from the test bench ports but I did try one test with and without the top cover and got results that were within a few percent so I don't think there is enough restriction to cause any major differences. I think most of it is in the line insulation work and testing all of the points with heat loads that near a 10C delta.

But you definitely do pay a premium for double thickness rads. It is almost double the materials costs for less than 10% performance benefits. The bigger difference I see with double thickness is generally half the restriction and usually better finishing/quality control. To some that would be worth the extra price, but best value will always be the slim rads.

Still working on the GTX, but I should have those results ready during the week. Almost half way done now and trying to burn through these as fast as I can.

[Martinm210]

Can you add a hwlab xflow 360 xtreme?

Not right now, I'm going on a testing vacation after finishing what I have. I've got a dune buggy building and atv riding itch that needs scratching over the summer..

[Vetalar]

great work as always!!!
[ot]after getting such 'similar' results for such different rads it's time to find out how many radiator power we REALLY need... we all can see in threads: "undervolted atom cpu? at LEAST 360!!!" but how close it to reality?
yes i know lower is better etc. but where adding radiators while lowering HW temps stops bring us dividends (increasing OC, stability, lowering noise)[/ot]

[Systemlord]

Yeah, I'm still not quite sure what to think of the actual wattage numbers. They generally seem low, but all the rads are being tested the same, so relative performance should be ok. I guess insulating the lines and adding the enclosure to minimize heat losses makes a bigger difference than I thought. I always new open air rad testing was a problem if there is any changes in air flow in the area of testing. I am probably also getting a touch of restriction from the test bench ports but I did try one test with and without the top cover and got results that were within a few percent so I don't think there is enough restriction to cause any major differences. I think most of it is in the line insulation work and testing all of the points with heat loads that near a 10C delta.

But you definitely do pay a premium for double thickness rads. It is almost double the materials costs for less than 10% performance benefits. The bigger difference I see with double thickness is generally half the restriction and usually better finishing/quality control. To some that would be worth the extra price, but best value will always be the slim rads.

Still working on the GTX, but I should have those results ready during the week. Almost half way done now and trying to burn through these as fast as I can.

Martinm210 I have been meaning to ask you something about the SR1 560 140mm radiators, does the extra 2 rows of tubes increase flow more than having a thick radiator with taller tubes? I remember a review where you stated the radiators being thicker had more tubing volume (also lower pressure drop) because of that extra thickness. I remember 25 years ago in Oregon riding Honda 125's racing bikes, boy was that fun!

[Martinm210]

Martinm210 I have been meaning to ask you something about the SR1 560 140mm radiators, does the extra 2 rows of tubes increase flow more than having a thick radiator with taller tubes? I remember a review where you stated the radiators being thicker had more tubing volume (also lower pressure drop) because of that extra thickness. I remember 25 years ago in Oregon riding Honda 125's racing bikes, boy was that fun!

Probably, I think it really comes down to the tube size and how many you have. It also probably depends on the entrance loss a bit. I believe they use a flaring tool when constructing these radiators to sort of open up the ends of the tubes and some flare the ends a bit more than others which can only help in reducing restriction.

Tube length is a bit of a mystery to me though. You would think radiators with longer tubes and the same number/size would be more restrictive, but according to some tests the quad radiators have actually tested lower than the short. It perhaps has something to do with turbulence I suppose but I'm not sure.

[Martinm210]

Added the GTX 360 results to the OP..
Cheers!
Martin

[Systemlord]

Probably, I think it really comes down to the tube size and how many you have. It also probably depends on the entrance loss a bit. I believe they use a flaring tool when constructing these radiators to sort of open up the ends of the tubes and some flare the ends a bit more than others which can only help in reducing restriction.

Tube length is a bit of a mystery to me though. You would think radiators with longer tubes and the same number/size would be more restrictive, but according to some tests the quad radiators have actually tested lower than the short. It perhaps has something to do with turbulence I suppose but I'm not sure.

I have noticed my SR1's do have a flaring inside if you look at the tube ends, and you would think longer tubes would mean more time it takes the water to pass through the radiator core. It is strange never the less, hay I took your idea way back when you were fan testing on that single SR1 140mm radiator here and You Tube, I have two SR1 560's each with four Gentle Typhoons plus BGears adapters! Check out my Case Labs STH10 build log in sig, they both fit in the lower chamber with plenty of room to spare!

[mav2000]

Wow, looks like the Swiftech has the GTX beat...thats news to me atleast. Is this the new series from Swiftech?

[Martinm210]

I have some 38mm delta fans as well as GT AP 29s that I may use for a retest on the high speed leaders at the end. The new XP is doing really well though with the limited testing done so far.

[CJ145]

I noticed you seem to only have tested some of the radiators in push+pull. I was wondering how much the difference there is between the radiators in push+pull. Maybe you could throw together a lovely graph like the other one you did?

[SkItZo]

You Sir, Are a God.

[plzdontbetaken]

Added the GTX 360 results to the OP..
Cheers!
Martin

Would you consider testing push/pull on the gtx and the xp? I'm curious if the xp would still perform comparable to the gtx since it is a slim rad. I'm impressed with the xp series.

[stren]

Bizarre - the GTX360 is only just beating the RX360 at 2200rpm despite the latters low FPI?

[Endgame]

Any guesses on where the old PA120.3 would fit on that graph? I'm curious how much rads have improved over the last several years.

[Martinm210]

Good questions. I have already convinced myself of doing some sort of super fan power restest for the high speed leaders, but I am limited in what I have for fans including:

6ea Titan Kukri 2200rpm 25mm fans
3ea Gentle Typhoon AP-29 3000 rpm 25mm fans
3ea Delta AFB1212SHE 2600 rpm 38mm fans

I would be up for a retest of one option could be push or push pull but considering each radiator takes a better part of one weekend day to test, I am not willing to do more than one.

I am leaning toward Delta push/AP29 pull and test up to 2600rpm or so.?

I am not sure on the PA but I would guess similar to the RX and SR1 levels.

[Endgame]

Thanks Martinm210. Looks like there still isn't any reason to replace the old PA120.3 then for me. In general what are your thoughts on the Titan Kukri fans? I know you weren't totally impressed when compared to the Typhoons, but considering the ease of use of PWM fans, how would you rate them?

[Martinm210]

Thanks Martinm210. Looks like there still isn't any reason to replace the old PA120.3 then for me. In general what are your thoughts on the Titan Kukri fans? I know you weren't totally impressed when compared to the Typhoons, but considering the ease of use of PWM fans, how would you rate them?

I've got some video yet to publish I tested last weekend, but my anemometer is acting up so I'll probably need to retest before having anything worthwhile to review. Not really sure at this point, perhaps better than average at slower speeds and about average at 1800+. They do look really nice and no major motor noise issues. PWM is a bit more limited than voltage control though, I think the bottom end under PWM is about 1000 where I can undervolt to about 600.

CFM per RPM of the Titans seemed to match that of the Zalman ZM-F3 which is typical of most 25mm fans and 200-400 higher RPM for the same CFM than GT-15s. GT AP-29s where somewhere in between which is probably losses from that stiffening ring:


FYI, found more fans. I've got 3ea Delta AFB1212HE Rev3s capabile of 3200+ and three more San Ace 38mm fans also capable of 3000RPM+.
After I get all the other rads done, I'll take the top two 2200RPM leaders and run a separate push+pull 38mm mega fan power test run...