Quote Originally Posted by Smartidiot89 View Post
@ Boris: I've never suggested 95W @ 5 GHz but the 32nm process is borked. I think AMD has a much bigger clue what they did then anyone on enthusiast forums. There have been designs before with long pipelines and high frequencies that worked, IBM Power6 reached over 5 GHz on a 65nm-process. IPC is irrelevant it's the relation of IPC and clock frequencies that really matters. Advantage is in theory a lower amount of transistors/die area thus needing less transistors to power but you need higher frequencies. Obviously AMD dropped the ball here, but the concept none the less works if properly executed.

I am not expecting miracles from Piledriver, only that the path AMD choose will start making sense compared to K10. And the manufacturing process they are using are severely borked so there are increases in frequency and power efficiency to be had here.
No, I say 95W at 5GHz is needed to be even a bit competetive with SB, I never said it was your opinion. Power 6 had one thing AMD doesn't, IBM. IBM used som very interesting techniques to combat leakage that AMD doesn't have. And it was an in order processor cutting a lot of heat generating logic away. And I know IPC is nothing without frequencies. But today when you have to make huge sacrifices to make an architecture gain a few hundred MHz then IPC is in it self more important than ever.

And I still haven't seen how the manufacturing process can play such a big role here. Not even Intel could make bulldozer nearly as fast, cool and small as even mid range SB. Besides no one has given any proof that the process is that bad yet. I know there are supply problems, 32nm is still a lot better than 45nm considering that a huge monstrosity like BD is even doable, it wouldn't work at all at 45nm. So even if 32nm can get better than it is today, it's still better than 45nm, which would make a Phenom III on 32nm much more attractive.