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You think IPC will be lower than Deneb?

If 4 core Llano-Stars based CPUs (3-5% IPC increase over previous) with 8MB L3 + cache optimizations ran at 4.2 Ghz stock (and overclocked near 5 Ghz) they would be at stock i5 2400 level and beat one (overclocked as much as possible with BCLK) by far while overclocked.

i5 2400 is selling for $190 right now.

I'm not saying single core or dual core IPC will be lower, I actually expect it to be much higher... but I believe that a 4.2 Ghz Deneb will be close to the X4 BD model in extensive multi-threading.

...I could be way off base, you never know. I just think that if AMD's only goal was "MOAR COARS" they would have stayed with the Stars architecture through 32nm and made 16 core parts based off of it. I believe Bulldozer will make headroom in single threaded apps compared to that architecture while saving space compared to a standard core design. While you can probably design something better than "Stars" for many threads, it actually performs quite well. BD gives them the ability with CMT to add in the single thread perf they really need and still put 16 (or 8) cores on the die.