Asrock P67 Extreme4 UEFI & Drivers thread [Extreme6 & Pro3 owners welcome]

[blacksun1942]

Hey guys, I recently purchased an Asrock P67 Extreme6 and a Core-i5 2500K as part of a new system build a while back. I've been lurking in the thread for weeks (I've read every single page!)

My goal:
I want fixed OC @ 4.7ghz (or more), with all power-saving features off. I will not be browsing, checking e-mail, or anything else on the build; it is ONLY for performance. I'm posting this on my separate 24/7 machine. The Asrock P67 Extreme will be used for performance and ONLY performance.

Anyway, here's my problem:
I can't get stable/boot past 44x multi.

These settings work beautifully:
- All C-settings off
CPU ratio: 44
PLL Overvolt: Disabled
Speedstep: Disabled
Turbo Boost power limit: 250/250/1
Add. Turbo Voltage: Auto (can't disable)
Core Current Limit: 250
BCLK: 100.0
Spread Spectrum: Auto (should I disable this?)
Power Saving: Disabled
CPU Core Voltage: Fixed/1.375v
LLC: Level 3
(all of the following @ AUTO: here are reported values)
DRAM: 1.635v
PCH: 1.059v
PLL: 1.832v
VTT: 1.142v
VCCSA: 0.925v

These settings 100% stable in IBT, Prime95 (blend). BTW, temps are a non-issue; load barely touches 60C on medium fan setting w/ Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme.

- @ multi:45, I eventually fail Prime95 (blend)... Oddly, upping vcore does not seem to help (should I try the other voltages?).
- @ multi:46, I get black screen with flashing cursor after POST. Upping the vcore to 1.4 makes no difference. What the heck is going on?
What settings do you guys recommend?

My specs:
Core-i5 2500K (Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme)
Asrock P67 Extreme6 (B3)
2x2gb DDR-2133 on XMP profile (G.Skill F3-17000CL9D-4GBXL)
XFX Black Edition 750W
Windows 7 64-bit
-----------
Secondary issue (nowhere near as important)

I have a Toshiba CDRW/DVD drive installed on SATA port 2 (just above the ports 0/1), but for some reason it reads discs VERY VERY slowly. It also causes Intel Rapid Storage to hang for several minutes when Windows loads up. The drive works perfectly in other builds.
This sounds a little like the infamous SATA port issue, but my MB is a B3 model...so what's up?

[Sailindawg]

Thanks Ket. That Rocketraid card, the 2640x4, caught my attention because it was not very expensive. Sub $100 if I remember correctly. However, I decided to pass because one cannot specify the stripe size on a stripe array. That was my reasoning for wanting a seperate raid card. I wonder if it's more the card itself than the P67 chipset or E4 board. Unfortunately, I don't have a raid card to test.

[piquadrat]

Thanks Ket. That Rocketraid card, the 2640x4, caught my attention because it was not very expensive. Sub $100 if I remember correctly. However, I decided to pass because one cannot specify the stripe size on a stripe array. That was my reasoning for wanting a seperate raid card. I wonder if it's more the card itself than the P67 chipset or E4 board. Unfortunately, I don't have a raid card to test.

Yes, the stripe is fixed at 64kB.
The proper reason for buying this kind of the devices over the integrated controllers should be:
- you've got access to SMART attributes of each drive forming every array/logical volume.
- you can define separate arrays of different raid levels on the same set of disks.
- You got decent performance with raid-5, especially in the volume-degradated scenario (intel ICH10 is a joke).
- portability
- spare drives and spare areas
- mail notifications of errors and warnings
Do not even bother with buying a sub300$ hardware/fake RAID card without own cache for decent random performance. Only sequential.

As of the argument:
"if it was a problem with either Asrocks boards or the P67 chip itself there would be many people complaining about it."
Please try to find in the Internet any and I mean any person with Asrock P67 board using hardware raid card with or without success. Good luck. This is simply a niche market. Nobody reports because (almost)nobody uses.
Please try to find anyone using Asrock P67 with hardware PCI or PCIe DVBs(2) SAT card. Good luck too. The same applies.

[banwell]

Hey guys, I recently purchased an Asrock P67 Extreme6 and a Core-i5 2500K as part of a new system build a while back. I've been lurking in the thread for weeks (I've read every single page!)

My goal:
I want fixed OC @ 4.7ghz (or more), with all power-saving features off. I will not be browsing, checking e-mail, or anything else on the build; it is ONLY for performance. I'm posting this on my separate 24/7 machine. The Asrock P67 Extreme will be used for performance and ONLY performance.

Anyway, here's my problem:
I can't get stable/boot past 44x multi.

These settings work beautifully:
- All C-settings off
CPU ratio: 44
PLL Overvolt: Disabled

Highlighted is your problem. Enable over volt and unlock higher multis. Its what its for...

Check here for some reading

http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/overc...beginners.html

[Ket]

okay .. thanks for the quick reply. hmm.. Im using third party cooler... the the load temp were good.. using the OCCT and prime95 to test.. . never even went past 60c... mostly in the range of 54-58c for all for core ..

may I know which temp monitor software as of current is able to give the correct temp of these sandybridge..

I realized that the realtemp 3.60 was like outdated.. last year oct.

I use CoreTemp 0.99.8.

Hey guys, I recently purchased an Asrock P67 Extreme6 and a Core-i5 2500K as part of a new system build a while back. I've been lurking in the thread for weeks (I've read every single page!)

My goal:
I want fixed OC @ 4.7ghz (or more), with all power-saving features off. I will not be browsing, checking e-mail, or anything else on the build; it is ONLY for performance. I'm posting this on my separate 24/7 machine. The Asrock P67 Extreme will be used for performance and ONLY performance.

Anyway, here's my problem:
I can't get stable/boot past 44x multi.

These settings work beautifully:
- All C-settings off
CPU ratio: 44
PLL Overvolt: Disabled
Speedstep: Disabled
Turbo Boost power limit: 250/250/1
Add. Turbo Voltage: Auto (can't disable)
Core Current Limit: 250
BCLK: 100.0
Spread Spectrum: Auto (should I disable this?)
Power Saving: Disabled
CPU Core Voltage: Fixed/1.375v
LLC: Level 3
(all of the following @ AUTO: here are reported values)
DRAM: 1.635v
PCH: 1.059v
PLL: 1.832v
VTT: 1.142v
VCCSA: 0.925v

These settings 100% stable in IBT, Prime95 (blend). BTW, temps are a non-issue; load barely touches 60C on medium fan setting w/ Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme.

- @ multi:45, I eventually fail Prime95 (blend)... Oddly, upping vcore does not seem to help (should I try the other voltages?).
- @ multi:46, I get black screen with flashing cursor after POST. Upping the vcore to 1.4 makes no difference. What the heck is going on?
What settings do you guys recommend?

My specs:
Core-i5 2500K (Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme)
Asrock P67 Extreme6 (B3)
2x2gb DDR-2133 on XMP profile (G.Skill F3-17000CL9D-4GBXL)
XFX Black Edition 750W
Windows 7 64-bit
-----------
Secondary issue (nowhere near as important)

I have a Toshiba CDRW/DVD drive installed on SATA port 2 (just above the ports 0/1), but for some reason it reads discs VERY VERY slowly. It also causes Intel Rapid Storage to hang for several minutes when Windows loads up. The drive works perfectly in other builds.
This sounds a little like the infamous SATA port issue, but my MB is a B3 model...so what's up?

- Enable PLL overvoltage
- Set LLC level 2
- Change PLL to 1.85v
- Change VCCSA to 1v
- VTT doesn't need to be that high
- Dial in 1.36v (fixed mode)

Now try booting 46x multi. You may just have a bum 2500k.

As for the other issue, try a different SATA cable and/or optical drive. Slow disc reading is ually the cause of a dirty laser, dying drive, or a bad cable.

As of the argument:
"if it was a problem with either Asrocks boards or the P67 chip itself there would be many people complaining about it."
Please try to find in the Internet any and I mean any person with Asrock P67 board using hardware raid card with or without success. Good luck. This is simply a niche market. Nobody reports because (almost)nobody uses.
Please try to find anyone using Asrock P67 with hardware PCI or PCIe DVBs(2) SAT card. Good luck too. The same applies.

1. It wasn't a argument.
2. Don't act like a toward me, I'm not a Asrock rep just a mediatary passing on info I get from my contacts.
3. RAID cards being used isn't that abnormal, I'd think any decent RAID card (or most at least) and not the cheapest you can possibly find would work in most boards. If hardware is cheap, its usually cheap for a reason (lack of QC, little to no driver updates, little to no tech support, etc).

[Falkentyne]

Why should vccsa be raised as high as 1v?

[piquadrat]

1. It wasn't a argument.
2. Don't act like a toward me, I'm not a Asrock rep just a mediatary passing on info I get from my contacts.
3. RAID cards being used isn't that abnormal, I'd think any decent RAID card (or most at least) and not the cheapest you can possibly find would work in most boards. If hardware is cheap, its usually cheap for a reason (lack of QC, little to no driver updates, little to no tech support, etc).

Maybe that wasn't argument but sounded like that. Don't take it personally. I appreciate your work here and following the thread for a long time.
But we should not miss the point here. It seems that Asrock does not support raid controllers on their boards (cheap or expensive).
That's unusual. Did you hear about such precedence in the past from other mobo makers?
And actually why that isn't supported? And what that means for me as a customer, I can rma the board if I witness compatibility problems or can't?
That is very unusual. The board is equipped with 4x PCIe slot which do not loose bandwidth unlike competitors (Asus board requires draconian feature cutting to get 4x slot). And at the same time Asrock limiting that functionality only to graphic cards.
Definitely Asrock does not gain better reputation among professionals that way. It seems they think gamers hearts are sufficient.
Strange, that's all.

[blacksun1942]

- Enable PLL overvoltage
- Set LLC level 2
- Change PLL to 1.85v
- Change VCCSA to 1v
- VTT doesn't need to be that high
- Dial in 1.36v (fixed mode)

Now try booting 46x multi. You may just have a bum 2500k.

As for the other issue, try a different SATA cable and/or optical drive. Slow disc reading is ually the cause of a dirty laser, dying drive, or a bad cable.

Thanks for the advice.
VTT was on "Auto"; I assume it was set that high so that it would stay within 0.5v of the DRAM (1.635v)....wouldn't it be "bad" if I manually changed it to be lower? Also does "Spread Spectrum" matter?

EDIT:
Tried your recommendations; black screen after POST @ 46x.
45x with the same settings boots into Windows; testing stability now...
EDIT: 45x with above recommended settings eventually failed in Prime95 blend...

[Falkentyne]

Thanks for the advice.
VTT was on "Auto"; I assume it was set that high so that it would stay within 0.5v of the DRAM (1.635v)....wouldn't it be "bad" if I manually changed it to be lower? Also does "Spread Spectrum" matter?

EDIT:
Tried your recommendations; black screen after POST @ 46x.
45x with the same settings boots into Windows; testing stability now...
EDIT: 45x with above recommended settings eventually failed in Prime95 blend...

If you get a black screen after POST, then either PLL overvoltage isn't enabled, your BIOS is corrupted or bugged and won't enable it, or you're not using a D2 stepping CPU.

[blacksun1942]

If you get a black screen after POST, then either PLL overvoltage isn't enabled, your BIOS is corrupted or bugged and won't enable it, or you're not using a D2 stepping CPU.

Nope, that's not correct.
There are many reports of this MB posting to black screen or black screen with flashing cursor when OC is too high. The system will automatically reboot, which allows me to simply go back into BIOS and readjust to enter Windows again.

My CPU is listed as "D2" stepping in CPUZ. My BIOS is not corrupt (I have reflashed just in case). PLL Overvoltage is enabled.
BTW: Currently retesting @ wimpy 44x multi; stable so far on Prime95 blend...

[Ket]

Maybe that wasn't argument but sounded like that. Don't take it personally. I appreciate your work here and following the thread for a long time.
But we should not miss the point here. It seems that Asrock does not support raid controllers on their boards (cheap or expensive).
That's unusual. Did you hear about such precedence in the past from other mobo makers?
And actually why that isn't supported? And what that means for me as a customer, I can rma the board if I witness compatibility problems or can't?
That is very unusual. The board is equipped with 4x PCIe slot which do not loose bandwidth unlike competitors (Asus board requires draconian feature cutting to get 4x slot). And at the same time Asrock limiting that functionality only to graphic cards.
Definitely Asrock does not gain better reputation among professionals that way. It seems they think gamers hearts are sufficient.
Strange, that's all.

Actually I can recall plenty of RAID card problems on Asus and Gigabyte boards not all that long ago (I think MSI too), about a year or so I think it was. in most circumstances I've heard of RAID cards that had problems worked fine after a firmware and / or driver update for the RAID card. Primarily, I'd say its the responsibility of the RAID card manufacturers but if they can't be arsed with the proper R&D, then what can anyone do

Thanks for the advice.
VTT was on "Auto"; I assume it was set that high so that it would stay within 0.5v of the DRAM (1.635v)....wouldn't it be "bad" if I manually changed it to be lower? Also does "Spread Spectrum" matter?

EDIT:
Tried your recommendations; black screen after POST @ 46x.
45x with the same settings boots into Windows; testing stability now...
EDIT: 45x with above recommended settings eventually failed in Prime95 blend...

Yup.. I'd say likely a bum 2500k. Spread Spectrum should make a difference, particularly when the system is running stock. Best left disabled when OCing though. Going a little OT here but as most are unsure what Spread Spectrum actually does heres a little tech insight for everybody

SSCG as its referred to (Spread Spectrum Clock Generator) isolates signals helping to prevent Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI), or as some may simply call it, electronic crosstalk. Spread Spectrum isn't just limited to electronics either it also has useful acoustical purposes (which I'm unfamiliar with, a telecommunications engineer may be able to answer that part). Theoretically (to my mind anyway, I've never seen any real proof just white paper stuff) Spread Spectrum could help with a clearer audio output with on-board audio CODECs wired to one of the PCI-E lanes thanks to its ability to isolate crosstalk and "spread out" its signal. In practice, you are probably better off putting a small heatsink on the audio IC as that will prevent EMI more reliably.

The kicker with Spread Spectrum comes if you are a overcolcker, while that signal is spread out to help prevent interference, it means (I think, going back a few years in my memory now) that with the signal not being as focused it can reduce stability and overclocks. As I remember it, Spread Spectrum was introoduced in PCs back in the DDR1 days to help with memory Sine Waves in a attempt to get super high memory OCs stable. Did it ever really help? You'd have to ask somebody who was gunning for a WR back then and using a DFI Lanparty board. In modern boards, the biggest problem for OCers is with Spread Spectrum left enabled while trying to OC, it can cause data/clock misalignments.

Probably a good modern example of Spread Spectrum at work in electronic devices would be the use of a wireless adapter surrounded by typical household electricals like TVs or mobile phones. Most modern electricals have some kind of active Spread Spectrum built into their design to limit electrical and magnetic field strength, which when using a wireless adapter would have the visible effect of the adapter getting a better signal.

So in summary for those that didn't follow all that here it is bullet style;

- Spread Spectrum helps reduce EMI
- In PCs with audio going across the PCI-E lanes theoretically it may help with a cleaner audio signal
- Spread Spectrum is all benefits if a PC is left at stock
- Disable Spread Spectrum when OCing as it can lead to clock frequency / data misalignment; aka instability with OCs and data corruption.

I did offer a more breif and probably clearer explanation of Spread Spectrum here on XS a while ago, but I can't find it now plus I'm tired so my apologies if that new explanation is too broad.

As for VTT.. I have mine set to 1.1v, no problems. If you thinking about feeding the IMC to keep high memory clocks stable thats the PLL voltage. You can happily run 1.75v PLL if all you are looking for is 1600MHz and good timings, but going to perhaps 1866, and deffinately 2133+, you will need higher PLL voltages.

[Falkentyne]

Nope, that's not correct.
There are many reports of this MB posting to black screen or black screen with flashing cursor when OC is too high. The system will automatically reboot, which allows me to simply go back into BIOS and readjust to enter Windows again.

My CPU is listed as "D2" stepping in CPUZ. My BIOS is not corrupt (I have reflashed just in case). PLL Overvoltage is enabled.
BTW: Currently retesting @ wimpy 44x multi; stable so far on Prime95 blend...

Blacksun:
This is EXACTLY what happens on my gigabyte board when the OC is too high with PLL overvolt disabled.

System hangs on black screen with a flashing cursor at the top left, or just immediately reboots and says "OC failed (without a black screen).

What you described is exactly what happens if PLL Overvoltage is disabled, when you pass the chip's multiplier wall. Unless you need it enabled for 4.5 ghz already (but in that case, you would need it enabled just to pass 4.2 ghz, if the CPU's absolute wall were 4.5 ghz).

If you can boot up at 4.5 ghz and 4.6 ghz gives you a hard complete wall, even with 1.5v vcore, 1.1 VTT, etc, then PLL Overvoltage is not working.

Can you actually verify that PLL overvoltage is working?
If you disable PLL Overvoltage at 4.5 ghz, you can boot into windows, right?

But at 4.6 ghz you get a hard wall...that means there's a bug with PLL Overvoltage....
Or you could just have the worst CPU in the world that won't work at all even with PLL Overvoltage....
(I've only seen D1 steppings that do that).

(Ket please correct me if I'm wrong).

[Falkentyne]

@Ket:
What does increasing the system agent vccsa voltage do? I thought it's best to leave it at the default....

[Ket]

Notching it up one just helps keep things stable really. I forget the specifics and I may of already posted this in this thread but;

DRAM Voltage:
[Intel Spec. Range: 1.5v - 1.58v]
Typical +10% electrical tolerence = 1.65v MAX Safe

PCH Voltage:
[Intel Spec. Range: Unknown]
Nominal Voltage: 1.059v
Typical +10% electrical tolerence = 1.16v

CPU PLL Voltage (VCCPL):
[Intel Spec. Range: 1.7v - 1.9v]
+5% electrical tolerence = 1.92v MAX safe
(no known prolonged tests) +10% tolerence = 2.01v MAX

VTT Voltage (VCCIO):
[Intel Spec. Range: 1.05v]
+5% electrical tolerence = 1.1v MAX safe
(no known prolonged tests) +10% tolerence = 1.15v MAX

VCCSA Voltage:
[Intel Spec. Range: 0.88v - 0.97v]
+10% electrical tolerence = (0.88) 0.97v = Do not exceed 1.016v!
(no known prolonged tests) +10% tolerence = (0.97) 1.067v = Do not exceed 1.1v!

Load Line Calibration (LLC):
It would seem LLC works in a slightly bizarre way on Sandy Bridge, causing 0x101 BSODs
if it's potency is too high. To remedy this simply set a more relaxed LLC option. I
recommend setting a mid-level LLC setting.

[vafan13]

whelp first round of OCing on my new extreme6/2600K setup got me 4.8Ghz at 1.35v with lvl 3 LLC and nothing turned off except speedstep. I'd imagine I should be pretty happy with that.

[dworks]

I have a P67 Extreme 6 and a 2500k OC'd @ 4.6Ghz. Everything works great except one thing that keeps bothering me. When I turn on the computer it will turn on for 2 seconds then power off, remain off for about 5 sec then power itself back on and then run through the POST process and boot to windows 7 like normal. This happens every time I shut my computer down and I have to turn it on again. Is this normal behavior for this board? I'm a little concerned with the wear on the parts.

[burebista]

I'd not pay too much attention to the UEFI CPU temp reading, I suspect its uncalibrated or it measures actual core temp, and not IHS surface temp.

Indeed CPU temp in BIOS are usually off but to my complete surprise Extreme4 is the first Intel MB that shows me CPU temp the same as hottest core shown by ThrottleStop/RealTemp. Always.

I realized that the realtemp 3.60 was like outdated.. last year oct.

Try latest beta.

[vafan13]

is PLL overvolt ok to use for 24/7 setup? Also, for the sake of minimizing degradation what core voltage should I be trying to stay under?

[Redbill]

Ket, can you confirm this with Asrock? Is this a BIOS issue or a limitation of Sandy Bridge because of the on die PCIE controller?

I get the impression that this is a firmware issue are some controllers work fine while others even though there from the same manufacture don't.

Whether it's an issue with the controller or MB firmware I don't know.

EDIT:
There's a couple of threads floating around for the adaptec cards. Below are the ones I can find again.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600521
http://forums.tweaktown.com/asrock/4...tml#post389351
http://forums.tweaktown.com/asrock/4...tml#post388014

[Strike@ps3]

Try latest beta.

thanks... it seems like coretemp , hwmontior and this realtemp are reporting the same temp of the 4 cores... since it already been mentioned, my temp is fine.. then i shall not bother too much abt it...

[Ket]

I have a P67 Extreme 6 and a 2500k OC'd @ 4.6Ghz. Everything works great except one thing that keeps bothering me. When I turn on the computer it will turn on for 2 seconds then power off, remain off for about 5 sec then power itself back on and then run through the POST process and boot to windows 7 like normal. This happens every time I shut my computer down and I have to turn it on again. Is this normal behavior for this board? I'm a little concerned with the wear on the parts.

You need to update the UEFI, that bug was fixed with UEFI 1.6A onward.

Indeed CPU temp in BIOS are usually off but to my complete surprise Extreme4 is the first Intel MB that shows me CPU temp the same as hottest core shown by ThrottleStop/RealTemp. Always.



Try latest beta.

You have a better IHS application than I do. Theres a maximum delta of 10c between hottest and coolest cores on my 2500k and even the average is 6-7c hotter between coolest and hottest cores and thats only idle at load it can increase to as much as 13c. Thats why I think its just TIM used under the IHS and why I'm so very tempted to take a razor blade and set it on my 2500k.

is PLL overvolt ok to use for 24/7 setup? Also, for the sake of minimizing degradation what core voltage should I be trying to stay under?

For 24/7 usage, you should be looking at around 1.38v max.

[radier]

You need to update the UEFI, that bug was fixed with UEFI 1.6A onward.

He has got Extreme6 so he need to flash UEFI 1.50A and higher.

http://www.pctreiber.net/asrock-bios...69&sortby=date

[banwell]

So in summary for those that didn't follow all that here it is bullet style;

- Spread Spectrum helps reduce EMI
- In PCs with audio going across the PCI-E lanes theoretically it may help with a cleaner audio signal
- Spread Spectrum is all benefits if a PC is left at stock
- Disable Spread Spectrum when OCing as it can lead to clock frequency / data misalignment; aka instability with OCs and data corruption.

Yeah I was having sound issues and you suggested the heatsink idea (never tried it though).

I played with stock & overclock setting and on/off spectrum spread and it made no noticeable difference. I may just have picky speakers but it also came over the headphones too.

In the end I grabbed a Xonar DX and problem solved. Crystal clear audio.

BTW the issue was still present on my P45 Asus Deluxe but to a lesser a degree - but so what the clock speeds!

Testing its easy - run Maxon Cinebench rendering test - the 1st one with the cars and you can actaully hear a sound (not unlike car engines!) low in the background. Totally silent now with a offboard audio solution.

[Ket]

I've never tried the onboard audio with my Extreme4, but instinct tells me I wouldn't have any issues, and if I did, I would stick a aluminium or copper HS on the audio CODEC to block most of the EMI. Its just something to be expected with onboard audio, though the quality and age of speakers also plays quite a big role. I've used the same Logitech X540 5.1 setup for a few years now, never had any issues even before I got my Xonar and had to make do with onboard audio.

[blacksun1942]

Update:
Prime (blend) stable @ 45x.
I only mentioned briefly that I was running my RAM @ XMP.
F3-17000CL9D-4GBXL (2x2gb sticks)
Well, I had thought the RAM was stable but it wasn't. Switching it back to 1600mhz (auto), and the system is perfect @ 45x with 1.36v (I can't believe I was trying 1.4v earlier for a mere 45x). The vcore might even work lower...
Very good info on spread spectrum btw. I'd read about it elsewhere but I don't think it ever made much sense to me until now.

So now I have two problems:
- I am fine staying @ 45x, but I want to be able to run my RAM at XMP settings. G.Skill "guarantees" those settings AFAIK, but XMP causes instability when the system is OCed @45x. I've tried various combinations of voltages without luck so far. Ket, your post on voltage ranges is invaluable for me (you did post that earlier). I was also thinking that high VTT was better for RAM than PLL, very good info. Any other recommendations?

- I do indeed have a 45x wall; attempting to boot @ 46x causes black screen after POST. Falkentyne, I was dismissive when it came to your idea about PLL Overvolt, but now I'm definitely open to the possibility. For the record, PLL overvolt on or off makes no difference up to 45x (can boot into Windows just fine, system stable without it). Just can't boot to 46x. Seeing that other people have no problem with 48x at low voltages, I'm left scratching my head here... It's weird because 45x is Prime & IBT stable...why would such a small jump in multi be impossible?