Vertex 3 specs and benchmarks

[F@32]

So the V3 120's are going back/getting sold - do I buy 2 C300 128's? 2 C300 240's? or plop the $1,100 down for the 2 V3 240's. Dead serious.

Could you please run 4K QD1 on both 100% read, 100% random?

If you're after gaming speed and not benchmark championship crown you need single solid drive with high QD1 4K random read performance and about 250MB/s sequential 4K/8K as proven by Ao1, lowfat and others time and time again. I would strongly recommend single C300 256Gb. I'm on 2R0 X25-M right now, and don't see anything exciting in 25nm SSDs yet. C300 is very tempting though...

[Brahmzy]

Could you please run 4K QD1 on both 100% read, 100% random?

If you're after gaming speed and not benchmark championship crown you need single solid drive with high QD1 4K random read performance and about 250MB/s sequential 4K/8K as proven by Ao1, lowfat and others time and time again. I would strongly recommend single C300 256Gb. I'm on 2R0 X25-M right now, and don't see anything exciting in 25nm SSDs yet. C300 is very tempting though...

I hear that the C300's don't necessarily do well in RAID0? They rely on TRIM more than other SSDs? That's one thing about the Indilinx / SF drives - their GC works well.

[F@32]

I hear that the C300's don't necessarily do well in RAID0? They rely on TRIM more than other SSDs? That's one thing about the Indilinx / SF drives - their GC works well.

I won't be able comment from first hand perspective, but mbreslin and other PCMV enthusiasts ran C300 in R0 close to a year and over and had no problems. I personally don't really care much for potential drop in write speed since I don't do much besides occasional video rip and gaming. I don't have neither TRIM nor GC on my set-up and it smooth like a butter.

[Brahmzy]

What's crazy is in most of the real-world benches, (i.e. Storage Bench) the V3 120's right at the top....

[mbreslin]

Although I'm too lazy to run iometer I can tell you I get nearly identical as-ssd/cdm speeds a year later.

What's crazy is in most of the real-world benches, (i.e. Storage Bench) the V3 120's right at the top....

As far as I can gather from the desktop usage pattern thread 4k random read/write is about as real world as it gets. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[One_Hertz]

Or may be this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT or this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT little friend Too bad not bootable

Lol iodrive qd3 4kb random reads:

[Computurd]

iodrive qd3 4kb random reads

if only it booted. jesus that would be phenomenal!

[Brahmzy]

I can't imagine having a bootable OS sitting on that thing. Good grief.

[mbreslin]

Drool every time that thing is posted. Would have bought it ages ago if it was bootable.

[Ao1]

So the V3 120's are going back/getting sold - do I buy 2 C300 128's? 2 C300 240's? or plop the $1,100 down for the 2 V3 240's. Dead serious.

Raid 0 is not going to improve 4K random read QD1 performance.

[DooRules]

I hear that the C300's don't necessarily do well in RAID0? They rely on TRIM more than other SSDs? That's one thing about the Indilinx / SF drives - their GC works well.

totally untrue my buddy, the C300's have awesome GC and do not require trim to maintain performance at all imho in R0, here are 4 c300 128 gb versions that had been in R0 at that point for 6-7 months, and never saw a single trim command..

[IMG]http://[/IMG]

[Khoral]

What's crazy is in most of the real-world benches, (i.e. Storage Bench) the V3 120's right at the top....

And that's exactly what makes the decision hard to take.

To me, it looks like this (only considering real world perf on SATA 3, as it is where I live) :
You want a ~240GB SSD ? Vertex 3 is the 1st choice, then C300 and M4 as 3rd.
You want a ~120GB SSD ? I think G3 will be the best (there, it is pure divination), then M4 (again, divination) and last Vertex 3.

I don't see the point in doing RAID with SSD as long as we can't TRIM.

[Andrea deluxe]

but ultimately what 's the best ssd new gen for a player?

c400 128gb
vertex 3 120gb
intel 510 120gb

???????????????


(currently i have 2 x-25m 80gb C:os D:games/steam)

[Khoral]

If you want to buy a SSD today, and want to go with a 120 GB, being a player, I'd go with an Intel G3.

If you can wait, I'd wait for the M4 and G3 (120 GB both) reviews.

[Wendy]

What's crazy is in most of the real-world benches, (i.e. Storage Bench) the V3 120's right at the top....

I don't think it's crazy at all.
For to many years 4K random performance has always been said to be the most important. While it most certainly is for servers, it isn't for a desktop, as the usage pattern is totally different.

For a desktop sequential performance is more important when you get into the real world. I noticed this way back when the first Indilinx SSDs came out. It couldn't compete with the Intel G1/G2 with 4K random performance, yet when you run real world tests the Indilinx drive was faster. It has taken a long time to prove this.

Anand uses the Anandtech storage bench, and although I don't know how the measurements are taken, the tests run "real apps" with "real data"/

Over at MyCE.com I have access to a bus analyzer and some proprietary software and trace filters. I to run scripted real applications and data sets in the "MyCE Reality Suite", and for a desktop usage pattern, the SSDs with better sequential performance always do better in these tests.

I can also see how many small file random transactions take place while running these tests, and from the data gathered so far, any SSD with > 5MB/s 4K random performance will be able to cope with these tests without any problem.

Of course, an SSD with very high 4K random performance will take less time to process these random transactions than an SSD with low 4K performance, but the transaction times are so small that it makes near to no difference until you start loading the system with medium to high multitasking, and I believe that is the reason why the Vertex 3, and other SSDs with high sequential performance do so well in a real world desktop PC.

To sum up.
Times have changed, and I believe that relying totally on 4K random performance to determine the overall speed of an SSD in a desktop, is flawed.

[Khoral]

Thanks for this Wendy.

In fact, the main question (to me) is : If I want an OS SSD, what type of access will be the most used during :
- Boot.
- Idle use (Internet, Media player) considering that applications are on the SSD, and data on a HDD.
- Gaming use, considering the game is installed on the SSD.

[SteveRo]

This might be a bit dated now but the workstation profile here doesn't look very "sequential".
Interesting that the workstation profile is the only one that's NOT 100% random (only 80).

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ts,2285-8.html

[Ao1]

For a desktop sequential performance is more important when you get into the real world. I noticed this way back when the first Indilinx SSDs came out. It couldn't compete with the Intel G1/G2 with 4K random performance, yet when you run real world tests the Indilinx drive was faster. It has taken a long time to prove this.

How exactly did you prove to yourself that an Indilinx is faster that an X25-M in the real world? Where is the evidence? (Please don't bother linking me to your web site). Please also enlighten me with the xfer sizes that you believe are relevant to desktop users.

[F@32]

To sum up.
Times have changed, and I believe that relying totally on 4K random performance to determine the overall speed of an SSD in a desktop, is flawed.

Wendy, I appreciate your insight. I have trouble agreeing with X-25M inferiority to Vertex 1... If you head over to hIOmon thread http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=260956 it is evident that most desktop scenarios show QD1 small file random and sequential IOs are the key. At this point I wonder if the tools you are using are measuring storage IOs patterns in a radically different manner from hIOmon software...

My current understanding is that once you have sequential bandwidth of about 300MB/s, random 4K around 45-65MB/s (ioXtreme) and low latency you hit CPU bottleneck...

[Callsign_Vega]

I think people get hung up on synthetic benchmarks too much. In real world type scenarios, the 120GB V3 not only stacks up well but often beats 240+GB competitors.

[Wintel64]

totally untrue my buddy, the C300's have awesome GC and do not require trim to maintain performance at all imho in R0, here are 4 c300 128 gb versions that had been in R0 at that point for 6-7 months, and never saw a single trim command..

[IMG]http://[/IMG]

What is the RAID setting and stripe size?

[F@32]

I think people get hung up on synthetic benchmarks too much. In real world type scenarios, the 120GB V3 not only stacks up well but often beats 240+GB competitors.

hIOmon was tracing real world apps (BlackOps, MS Office, etc) while monitoring QD, file transfer size, IOs, MB/s. I highly recommend to read at least first summary post with Ao1's findings: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=260956

[F@32]

What is the RAID setting and stripe size?

ICH10R - 128K, SB850 - 128K, PCH/P67 - 32K are the best based on my own testing with 2R0.

[Manicdan]

but ultimately what 's the best ssd new gen for a player?

c400 128gb
vertex 3 120gb
intel 510 120gb

???????????????


(currently i have 2 x-25m 80gb C:os D:games/steam)

im with this guy, im building a new pc for a friend and want to spend about 200$ on an SSD, so im thinking of just watching for sales and picking up which ever, but if i cannot, whats looking like the best option for their price?

with 2 months before i have to deliver, this is one of those things that im holding off on buying until the very end or until a sale makes me jump on it (and yes i know the c300 was 200$ recently on newegg, lol)

[F@32]

im with this guy, im building a new pc for a friend and want to spend about 200$ on an SSD, so im thinking of just watching for sales and picking up which ever, but if i cannot, whats looking like the best option for their price?

with 2 months before i have to deliver, this is one of those things that im holding off on buying until the very end or until a sale makes me jump on it (and yes i know the c300 was 200$ recently on newegg, lol)

For $200 - C300, sir. By now all firmware kinks were ironed out. 128Gb is a nice drive.