Fukushima I is the same generation as Chernobyl NPP (both made in the 70's), until 1986 graphite was considered safe as it absorbs radiation and various toxic chemical byproducts very well.
Fukushima I is the same generation as Chernobyl NPP (both made in the 70's), until 1986 graphite was considered safe as it absorbs radiation and various toxic chemical byproducts very well.
so yeah, fuel rods are 4m long, and you can see people outside the reactors as a refernece as well, less than 2m...
so the reactor buildings are around 50m tall... the cooling towers are then around 150m tall...
and the concrete roof of reactor3 was blown up almost 3x as high as the cooling towards, so around 400-500 meters into the air... daym....
thats a massive explosion... right in the center of the reactor building...
honestly, to me it seems almost impossible that this happens without damaging the reactor pressure vessel, IF the pressure vessel itself wasnt the source of the explosion...
if the explosion happened at the top of the reactor, above the pool, then the walls would get blown off to the sides and the roof to the top, right?
but at reactor3 the entire structure is damaged, even below the pool level! how could that happen?
why would the explosion go DOWN on the structure? that doesnt make sense to me...
and even IF this would have happened ABOVE the pool level, then the force would have pushed the seal above the reactor pressure vessel down onto it and have damaged it...
if you ask me, the reactor pressure vessel popped in reactor3, thats the massive explosion we saw and thats why the structure is damaged even below the pool level...
and we are lucky that the pool is still in tact!
and we will be lucky if the fuel rods are still within the structure... i hope they were pushed down into the concrete/graphite pool by the explosion and not up and out of the structure...
yeah but they knew better for a while now...Originally Posted by Micutzu
so does anybody know if they removed the graphite or its still there? :S
I'll say it again and again. It's time to stop mucking around and bury it under concrete. They should of started this as soon as the containment units blew up.
No amount of water will do anything at this point since the radiation has already been pluming for days, they just don't want to talk about it.
Saaya, I think you underestimate just how powerful hydrogen can be.
Hydrogen is some powerful stuff...
Hydrogen as a power plant is iffy though.
It's wasteful, it uses up our water and oxygen, that's my opinion.
I have 2 examples but I'm unsure if it's a good idea... edit: I'm gonna del the stuff I posted because it's probably for the best.
Last edited by NEOAethyr; 03-18-2011 at 06:34 AM.
its not that... im just not sure how it would explode downwards...Saaya, I think you underestimate just how powerful hydrogen can be
Hydrogen is some powerful stuff...
Hydrogen as a power plant is iffy though.
It's wasteful, it uses up our water and oxygen, that's my opinion.
I have 2 examples but I'm unsure if I should post there names.
Just note that there were subs that are over 60 years old that were faster then any nuke sub today and they were used hydrogen reactors.
The planes with the highest rate of climb to this very day, are again baised off the same tech and are again over 60years old.
And the fastest plane ever made period, is again made with the same exact tech...
Very powerful stuff hydrogen is...
thats the thing that rose my eyebrows...
if you fill the top of the structure, which is like an attic, with hydrogen and oxygen and blow it up, itll pop all 4 walls and the roof, sure...
why would it go downwards and damage the corners of the building?
those areas of the structure are many many times stronger than the walls around the top of the reactor... as soon as the walls are off, the pressure escapes towards the top or horizontally... why would it break off the edges of the central structure?
im just saying, of course im not an expert...
but to me it looks like the explosion happened below the pool level...
and dont you think its odd?
reactor2 suffered an explosion and the structure is still mostly in tact, yet they admit the containment vessel has been damaged...
reactor3 is in MUCH worse shape, but somehow, miraculously the containment vessel is supposed to be... just fine...?
just saying, all this stuff doesnt add up to me as an amateur... not saying its bs...
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/18_26.html
*twiddling thumbs*Kan promises to disclose all info on Fukushima
Japan's Prime Minister Naoto Kan says the government will make every effort to disclose information about the quake-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
well?
its been half a day since he made those comments...
i havent heard a single thing since then...
whenever somebody promises to tell the truth, without saying anything else right after this, you know hes still lying, lol...
yeah i lied and held back some infos, im sorry, i will tell you the truth now...
*silence* ...
btw, has anybody else lost all trust and confidence in the IAEA after this?
they havent done a THING... claiming they were waiting for japan to ask them for help and advice... oh come on... when a reactor blows up you proactively contact the local gov and visit the place right away, whether they want it or not...
imagine a plane crashes somewhere and the aviation industry watchdog doesnt travel to the crash site because... oh well, nobody gave us a call...
German media claims that Japan might ask Germany for radio controlled robots, made for the use in nuclear power plants. I mean, WTF, Japan is one of the country with the most robots and the main manufacturer of robots and they don't have such things? You gotta be kidding me!
Notice any grammar or spelling mistakes? Feel free to correct me! Thanks
![Send a message via AIM to [XC] gomeler](images/misc/im_aim.gif)
Too much crap going around in this thread. Almost like this is 4chan
Right. Let's just bury our problem and hope it goes away. I'd much rather have them cool the cores, figure out wtf went wrong, recover as much of the fuel rods(melted or not) and then tear down the entire building and process it properly for disposal. Doesn't it make more sense to learn from this and clean the mess up instead of leaving another abandoned industrial complex like Chernobyl?
lol? Last I checked when you combust hydrogen with oxygen you yield water. Last I also checked about 70% of our planet is covered in water. I think we have enough water to spare a few million gallons of water tied up in a hydrogen economy.Saaya, I think you underestimate just how powerful hydrogen can be
Hydrogen is some powerful stuff...
Hydrogen as a power plant is iffy though.
It's wasteful, it uses up our water and oxygen, that's my opinion.
I have 2 examples but I'm unsure if it's a good idea... edit: I'm gonna del the stuff I posted because it's probably for the best.
its not that... im just not sure how it would explode downwards...
thats the thing that rose my eyebrows...
if you fill the top of the structure, which is like an attic, with hydrogen and oxygen and blow it up, itll pop all 4 walls and the roof, sure...
why would it go downwards and damage the corners of the building?
those areas of the structure are many many times stronger than the walls around the top of the reactor... as soon as the walls are off, the pressure escapes towards the top or horizontally... why would it break off the edges of the central structure?
im just saying, of course im not an expert...
but to me it looks like the explosion happened below the pool level...
and dont you think its odd?
reactor2 suffered an explosion and the structure is still mostly in tact, yet they admit the containment vessel has been damaged...
reactor3 is in MUCH worse shape, but somehow, miraculously the containment vessel is supposed to be... just fine...?
just saying, all this stuff doesnt add up to me as an amateur... not saying its bs...
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/18_26.html
*twiddling thumbs*
well?
its been half a day since he made those comments...
i havent heard a single thing since then...
whenever somebody promises to tell the truth, without saying anything else right after this, you know hes still lying, lol...
yeah i lied and held back some infos, im sorry, i will tell you the truth now...
*silence* ...
btw, has anybody else lost all trust and confidence in the IAEA after this?
they havent done a THING... claiming they were waiting for japan to ask them for help and advice... oh come on... when a reactor blows up you proactively contact the local gov and visit the place right away, whether they want it or not...
imagine a plane crashes somewhere and the aviation industry watchdog doesnt travel to the crash site because... oh well, nobody gave us a call...
Check it out. The results of a car bomb. Notice how miraculously the ground underneath the carbomb is also damaged. Explosions don't just direct all their energy upwards.
Also, the explosions in the various reactor buildings likely weren't located in the same part of the structures or of the same size. Those are pretty big buildings, as you yourself noted, and perhaps in one instance the cooling pools had a hydrogen buildup but in another instance vented hydrogen was the source of the buildup.
Maybe Germany has a company that specializes in these things? Just like if you needed a robot to fly a few hundred miles and ruin someone's day with a missile that you just might call up an American company to supply this?
japan has highly specialized robots...
and they announced the weather, danced, walked upstairs and downstairs, and rode a bicycle in a circle for a week now... with almost no effect on radiation...
sorry, couldnt resist
gomeler... true, but a road isnt exactly solid ground...
but yeah, i guess the explosion could have blown off the lower edges of the structure...
still, dont you think the claim that the containment vessel is just fine after this sounds too good to be true?
Last edited by saaya; 03-18-2011 at 07:03 AM.
Well I don't trust any of the nuke people's lol but that's just me
What really bothers me though (and it does) is how they handled the evac's around the area.
As soon as it happened, oh if you're 10km away..., lol ^^.
It should of been 100km from the get go duh...
Then the usa comes in, says hey american peep's, you guys better get farther away then that, at least 80km away...
Mmm, nah on 2nd thaught you should leave japan and we will help get you out...
Politics are scary..., yeah I said that...
Edit:
[XC] gomeler
I heard the same about combusting it but never thought it was actually true.
Last edited by NEOAethyr; 03-18-2011 at 07:04 AM.
You might be right. Just did a google search and one Austrian news site claims they are "Made in Germany". It's still strange that the robot-loving Japanese don't have some for such cases oO
Notice any grammar or spelling mistakes? Feel free to correct me! Thanks
i dont think they COULD have moved all those people to a further radius even if they wanted to...Well I don't trust any of the nuke people's lol but that's just me
What really bothers me though (and it does) is how they handled the evac's around the area.
As soon as it happened, oh if you're 10km away..., lol ^^.
It should of been 100km from the get go duh...
Then the usa comes in, says hey american peep's, you guys better get farther away then that, at least 80km away...
Mmm, nah on 2nd thaught you should leave japan and we will help get you out...
Politics are scary..., yeah I said that...
Edit:
[XC] gomeler
I heard the same about combusting it but never thought it was actually true
remember, they got 500.000 people in shelters right now accross the country... the evac zone they went for already resulted in moving 200.000 people... and thats only 20km...
i think foreigners are advised to move further away... because they can...
Uhh. I'm not even going to tear this one apart .japan has highly specialized robots...
and they announced the weather, danced, walked upstairs and downstairs, and rode a bicycle in a circle for a week now... with almost no effect on radiation...
sorry, couldnt resist
gomeler... true, but a road isnt exactly solid ground...
but yeah, i guess the explosion could have blown off the lower edges of the structure...
still, dont you think the claim that the containment vessel is just fine after this sounds too good to be true?
Radiation levels around Fukushima for March 16th have been put into handy graph format. They are the official figures by MEXT, measure in MICRO sieverts. The highest value at the edge of the 30km zone is 150uSv/h. That’s a high amount for people living on the 30km border (remember it accumulates every hour). There are also some 0.04 and 0.05mSv.h values around the 30km border (about the value of a chest x-ray), but the rest are much lower. Still, considering these values were taken at the 30km border, I wouldn’t want to be someone living just outside the evacuation radius. It’s been several days now that the plant has been spewing out radiation and it all gradually builds up.
http://www.mext.go.jp/component/a_me...1303727_12.pdf
So not too bad in some places but definitely worth getting out of town for a few weeks to let it all die down.
http://www.jrc.or.jp/english/relief/..._00002070.html
Japan／Earthquake Donation
11/03/14
We heartily appreciate your kind offer of donation.
If you want to donate money to the affected population of earthquake and tsunami, please contact your national Red Cross/Crescent society, which may have already launched fundraising campaign within your country.
If your national society doesn’t collect donation or you wish to send your donations directly to the Japanese Red Cross Society, please direct your fund to the following bank account. If you need the receipt of your fund, please state so clearly in the comment section of the bank transfer order. All the fund received under this account will be transferred to the Distribution Committee, which is formed around the local government of the disaster-affected prefecture and to be distributed directly among the affected population of earthquake and tsunami,
Name of Bank: Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation
Name of Branch: Ginza
Account No.: 8047670 (Ordinary Account)
SWIFT Code: SMBC JP JT
Payee Name: The Japanese Red Cross Society
Payee Address: 1-1-3 Shiba-Daimon Minato-ku, Tokyo JAPAN
Thank you once again for your generous offer. It is surely the source of encouragement for the affected population in Japan.
For our operation updates, please have a look at the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies site. →here
Latest news
Today cooling operations have continued on problem reactors 3 and 4. The SDF used a number of fire engines with extendable arms to blast water down into the damaged roof of both units in an attempt to fill up the spent fuel pool with water. A total of 50 tonnes of water was delivered over a period of 40 minutes. Tonight a task force from the Tokyo Fire and Disaster Management Agency will attempt to keep water pouring on the third reactor. A plan had been devised to link up several fire trucks to shoot water over a long distance, but the damage caused by the earthquake made access difficult. However, the team managed to link up the fire trucks from a great distance to transport water over 300m in order to douse reactor unit 3 from a height of 22m. As of 00.30, the operation started and concluded at 00.50. There are also other teams attempting to install an external power source to return cooling operation to reactor units 1 and 2.
So, Japan is the country of the robots ... but nothing really useful huh? Maybe, instead of spending R&D on robots that go up and downstairs ... maybe something a little more useful for situations like this?
Damn... again ... i think there's lots of R&D resources spent on things which are of "dubious" utility ... and only in these situations, people understand that ...
Robots to play soccer ... Robots to dance ... but nothing that can really be useful in extreme situations ...
Bah...
Oh...your ass is grass and I've got the weed-whacker.
mhhh are you ok?
you're pretty rude in your recent posts... take it easy man...
mhhh was that from wednesday night where wind was blowing inland and reactor3 exploded and reactor4 was on fire? or is this updated daily?
too bad they dont show it on a map...
hmmm but its weird that radiation spiked this much in only spot, isnt it?
shouldnt it be more dispersed and radiation should be slowly increasing towards one direction/path that the material was blown?
pcwhisperer
[QUOTE]updated daily
Check here for the latest, click on （英語版）to read it in English
http://www.mext.go.jp/a_menu/saigaij...ai/1303726.htm
thanks for keeping this thread up to date posting news like this man
50tons... the same they delivered yesterday...
and i just remembered, on nhk they mentioned during a press conference that they estimate refilling the pools with 50tons per day should be sufficient to keep the water level stable.
so thats probably why they are doing this... to keep water levels steady until they got the original loop going again...
they always stopped to measure radiation... sounds like they thought the water was going to reduce radiation but it didnt...
so then the radiation is probably coming from the reactor3 and not the pool in reactor3...
well, to be fair, they built all those robots cause its challanging to make them do all this... and if you can build robots to do this, your getting closer and closer to a robot that can do all sorts of things... in the long run...
i think other countries are more focusing on practicality...
[QUOTE=dctokyo;4784445]mhhhh
updated daily
Check here for the latest, click on （英語版）to read it in English
http://www.mext.go.jp/a_menu/saigaij...ai/1303726.htm
but didnt the wind blow to the sea all day?
how did radiation move against the wind?
The wind is always changing,Due to weather conditions changing at different altitudesbut didnt the wind blow to the sea all day?
how did radiation move against the wind?
Link to Fukushima Nuclear Weather Forecast
http://www.weather-forecast.com/loca...recasts/latest
Lol, Saaya, I think you're doing more harm then good with these posts, no offence
I know it's natural for us to ask ?'s and be skeptical...
But when you look at it from a japanese perspective, what would you think readings these posts?
You'de be like, oh this could be more serious then what is being let on, a panic starts, etc.
Or maybe you'de say, wth, it's none of these people's business and it's not like they are helping so they should keep there mouths shut.
Etc etc.
Ya I knows this to be a discussion thread but...
I think we're being a bit over dramatic.
Sure this effects everyone but we can't do a darn thing about it can we
I don't mean to point fingers or anything.
It's just they we shouldn't be skeptical about every single little piece of info we come across and just take it as it is like good little peon's lol.
For now anyways.
I would really like to see some overlay data.
I thought perhaps the smoke plum tracking data might have some use but then again, how can you track a plum of smoke when it has been dispersed, so I didn't even look at that data to be honest because of that.
Does anyone have any idea of what sort of data to look for in sat terms?
Photo-rad's?, etc, I'm sure there must be some public sat data that's specifically for tracking the type radiation of interest here...
oh man sunday sounds bad... inland wind and then after that itll rain? :S
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