Japan quakes

[Boissez]

for this they usually use the max safe radiation values.
so then thats 700x above considered safe and way higher than that compared to normal radiation levels...

they always make it sound like a sunburn or, oh well, after this exposure you just gotta lay low and avoid radiation for some time and then your back in balance, lol... thats not how it works... you can get exposed to a LOT of radiation throughout your life, but if you get exposed to all of this at once youd die in an instant...

so i really hate those "as much radiation as usually within x timeframe" numbers, thats pure nonsense trying to make it sound less serious...

id radiation levels were THIS high far out on the pacific ocean, then damn!
20km evacuation radius sounds ridiculous... the wins just have to change slightly and things get real ugly... :S

Ever taken a radiography? You may be exposed to months worth of background radiation in just a couple of seconds. Yet even doctors prescribe it
The current events in the two nuclear plants shouldn't be overdramatized - this ain't no where near a chernobyl type release (more like 10000-times smaller) where workers got lethal doses of radiation within minutes of exposure.
Especially when you have thousands and thousands of people nearby without food, water and shelter.

[NEOAethyr]

Jeez...
I'de volunteer for help if it were possible, not sure.
But after so much probs with the nukes, no way in heck are you gonna see me step ft over there for sometime sorry .

Already had enough xray rad's pass through me working on lots of tv's and visiting the dentist's...


For alternative energies...
There's alot of methane gas ice sheets around japan supposedly, so it seems from looking on the maps.
Good for natural gas.

There's wood gas burning,. made up by the nazi's...
Africa is doing it... (probably with trees)
So is China (with left over rice husks).
A good method for doing that is to grow hemp or weed and grind the stalks into wood pellets (the bud and leaves are probably better fuel's but... lol).
That's the "supposedly" reason it was illegalized in the 1st place...

Wind mills...
Solar parabolic dish turbines...

The Japanese like doing research, so there's possibly even more alternatives when you look at lighting ball generation (micro black holes).
Vortex's, using the extreme heat side to turn a turbine, and the cold side to cool parts of the reactor...

Methane gas from garbage dumps...
(Wish we did that around here...)

Algae.., making diesel out of that like you would out of wood gas kinda.
It's another alt fuel src.

Geothermal...

Etc etc.
Unlike 50 or so years ago, alot of these are possible today with the tech we have...

Anyways after the last few days of crazy event's they'll probably look into alternatives anyways after everything is back to norm.


As for the word jap.
I was told 10 years ago they take that as offensive.
To many american's calling them japs through history since ww2 I guess.

To be onest, I wonder where the word japan even came from ^^.
Because that's not what they call there own country...


I wish you guys the best of luck .
You guys already have had enough probs, let alone having to deal with all this crap all at once .

To be honest, perhaps it's time to turn those nuke reactors off ^^, it's not my say or anything but if it were, I would ^^.

If I were the praying type, I'de pray for ya.
Nothing I can say is really of any help but...
I guess I'de still hop over there and help clean up and such if I knew of a way :|.
:O, it's sad to see such things happen to such a great people's.

[josh1980]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle1536461.ece
sounds like its the operator and not the japanese gov that is bs'ing everybody...

theyve been saying all along all is fine, then one reactor exploded... but all was fine, radiation levels "supposedly" went down... then another reactor exploded... but yeah, all is fine!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...or-monday.html
and instead of saying 7 were killed in the second explosion, they say they are "missing"
yeah right... as if there is any chance theyll show up...

big respect to those workers at the power plants...
they know what they are dealing with and they know they will at least face severe health issues if they ever make it out of those reactors alive...
yet they pretty much sacrifice their lives for the greater good...

No reactor has exploded. As has been mentioned on multiple links on this forum, the reactor is not capable of exploding.

Are you done with the sensationalizing? Please don't try to tell people how stuff is if you don't thoroughly understand it. It just confuses people. First they read about the hydrogen explosion and that a nuclear reactor can't explode, then your comments, what are they supposed to believe?

Do you really think that the spokesperson for the operating company knows alot about what he/she is talking about? There's complete confusion down there i'm sure. People all over the place trying to keep water flowing and electricity on, etc. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that they're making mistakes while their families might be missing, their homes gone, etc. Why do you think the US is sending assistance over there? Because we can observer and provide some insight and help. The people we send have homes to go to, families that are back safe and sound.

I get the distinct impression you believe some kind of conspiracy is underway. You want in on a little secret? When all of this is said and done there will be tons of data on what transpired and when. There is tons of computer data that will be analysed thoroughly to piece together exactly what happened. What worked and what didn't work. Everyone around the world will know if the data was tampered with because the data won't make sense. There will be so much data on everything that's been going on there's no way someone could alter enough data to hide the tampering. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that somepeople will think the operators were lying, the japanese government was in on it, and that tons more radioactive material was released than claimed. But do this forum a big favor and don't add your BS to a topic you don't understand.

[NEOAethyr]

Now now, he's just concerned .
That's probably the reason right there.

I am's too ^^.
With a supposed decline in birth rate tis is like the worst ting that could happen to 'em.

[Hondacity]

Ever taken a radiography? You may be exposed to months worth of background radiation in just a couple of seconds. Yet even doctors prescribe it
The current events in the two nuclear plants shouldn't be overdramatized - this ain't no where near a chernobyl type release (more like 10000-times smaller) where workers got lethal doses of radiation within minutes of exposure.
Especially when you have thousands and thousands of people nearby without food, water and shelter.

radiation therapy is not for healthy people

doctors don't prescribe them... they other known as radiologists require xray or ct or even PET for diagnostic purposes not for curing.

i carry an insta-dose dosimeter. xrays aren't that bad, if you follow "ALARA"

background radiation is always at minimum in hospitals... xray sources or radio-isotopes are always in shielded rooms.

but cesium sources produce beta radiation...

imagine being exposed to cesium...a dust cloud of radioactive cesium...

instant cell death

half life of cesium is 30yrs...it will be 1 generation before they disappear..and hopefully the babies are normal...

just bits off of my head

[miahallen]

To be honest, perhaps it's time to turn those nuke reactors off ^^, it's not my say or anything but if it were, I would ^^.

The reactors were shut down automatically when the earthquake first struck

[josh1980]

but cesium sources produce beta radiation...

imagine being exposed to cesium...a dust cloud of radioactive cesium...

instant cell death

half life of cesium is 30yrs...it will be 1 generation before they disappear..and hopefully the babies are normal...

First off, it isn't instant cell death. Secondly, cell death is just one of 5 possible outcomes when a cell is ionized by radiation. Cell death is a preferred outcome actually. The least preferred outcome is DNA errors and cell division in which daughter cells live(aka cancer).

The half life of Caesium-137 is 30.17 years. It is a beta emitter. Betas are blocked by a few millimeters of relatively simple materials like aluminum.

I'm guessing I should give up trying to correct people in the forum. I can't tell if they aren't competent to discuss the subject, misinformed, or just confused. Hondacity, you just seem a little confused. But it seems that others have the sole intent to confuse and deceive.

[Hondacity]

cesium is both gamma and beta...

[dctokyo]

Hi josh1980

Radiation detected 60 miles from the plant contains Cesium-137 and Iodine-121, being a noob on this, can you kindly explain in layman terms? Is this something to worry about, as I live about 206 kilometres (128 miles) from that plant.

[Caparroz]

First off, it isn't instant cell death. Secondly, cell death is just one of 5 possible outcomes when a cell is ionized by radiation. Cell death is a preferred outcome actually. The least preferred outcome is DNA errors and cell division in which daughter cells live(aka cancer).

The half life of Caesium-137 is 30.17 years. It is a beta emitter. Betas are blocked by a few millimeters of relatively simple materials like aluminum.

I'm guessing I should give up trying to correct people in the forum. I can't tell if they aren't competent to discuss the subject, misinformed, or just confused. Hondacity, you just seem a little confused. But it seems that others have the sole intent to confuse and deceive.

Your posts were very informative and I thank you for that.

For us folks that don't know jack how that stuff works hearing from a person who actually works on a nuclear power plant and might know exactly what's going on at Fukushima is very refreshing.

Please carry on.

[mongoled]

First off, it isn't instant cell death. Secondly, cell death is just one of 5 possible outcomes when a cell is ionized by radiation. Cell death is a preferred outcome actually. The least preferred outcome is DNA errors and cell division in which daughter cells live(aka cancer).

The half life of Caesium-137 is 30.17 years. It is a beta emitter. Betas are blocked by a few millimeters of relatively simple materials like aluminum.

I'm guessing I should give up trying to correct people in the forum. I can't tell if they aren't competent to discuss the subject, misinformed, or just confused. Hondacity, you just seem a little confused. But it seems that others have the sole intent to confuse and deceive.

Hi Josh, thanks for your professional insight.

It is very helpful at this time in keeping things in perspective.

Its needed as some people are just naturally pessimistic, conspirasists, over exagerators and dramatised histerics.

Wish they wouldnt comment on things in such an authorative manner, when the reality of it is that they dont have a clue.

Not really helping and IMHO is lacking respect to all those people who are suffering right now.

I hope those peeps who are doing this in this thread would please step back and stop doing this stuff as it is unhelpful.

Thanks to all those bringing truthful information into this thread.

To all those suffering, my heart goes out to you.............

[josh1980]

Hi josh1980

Radiation detected 60 miles from the plant contains Cesium-137 and Iodine-121, being a noob on this, can you kindly explain in layman terms? Is this something to worry about, as I live about 206 kilometres (128 miles) from that plant.

First, you have a typo. Iodine 131 is a concern from nuclear reactors.

Iodine contamination can lead to thyroid cancer if ingested. If you are likely to be exposed to it, your government will likely issue iodide pills. The pills will saturate your thyroid with iodine. Any additional iodine you might be exposed to(radioactive type) will not be able to be processed by your body and will be expelled through natural means. Radioactive Iodine 131 has a 1/2 life of about 8 days. So within a month or so Iodine will no longer be a significant concern.

Caesium 137 is the nasty stuff that is around chernobyl. Lucky for you the wind blows predominantly to the east. This would blow the majority of any contaminants in the air out into the open ocean. This will disperse the radioisotopes and will lower the contamination in the area. It sticks around for a while (30 years) so it can do some long term damage. It also is soluble in water, so it can potentially affect the water table. When Chernobyl happened it was expected that the water table would be contaminated. Instead the caesium collected in the soil and will have decayed away before reaching the water table.

Big picture, anything more than about 10 miles away is pretty safe as long as the winds aren't blowing it towards you. The direction of the winds and rain in the area will play a big part in where the contamination will go. I'm not an expert at contaminations and releases though. It's generally considered bad to have fuel leaking into the environment. So our training doesn't discuss the full lifespan of the isotopes released from a leaking reactor.

Edit: I had read somewhere that the highest radiation levels seen from the accident was about 150mrem/hr. The levels have dropped to around 2 to 3 now. It takes between 200 and 1000rem to start having fatal levels. But if you could have stayed in the highest radiation levels seen thus far AND the radiation levels didn't drop(which are pretty much guaranteed to drop anyway) until a conservatively fatal level of 200rem was reached, you'd have to stay in that area 24 hours a day for 54 days. All this hoopla about "high" levels is overrated. I've been looking at the radiation levels(the numbers, not this BS "1000x background) to figure out how "bad" it is. We've got a ways to go to see "real bad".

[NEOAethyr]

Isn't there a good supply of iodine from ocean catch seafood and some salts though anyways?
Unless it's already contaminated.

It might not be enough but still.

edit:
Never heard of pills but I have heard of drops...
You can get drops from local farm supply stores I heard.
You're only supposed to use one drop.
But I am definitely no pro.
I would "assume" the gov is working on distribution of it for the country.

Iodine is the only thing I've ever heard of to use in case of a meltdown since it supposedly absorbs some of the radioactivity and passes it through your system.

I would check with a docter and ask for pro advice...

[n00b 0f l337]

I'm just really glad I cancelled my trip to Tokyo for Spring Break. Would have been there last week till next week. O.o

[MrToad]

@josh1980:

Thank you again for your continued input. The media keep inviting "experts" to discuss the issues who pass educated guesses or plain misinformation as "facts".

This is really not helping.

We keep getting information of "high radiation levels" as you mention with no background of what do they mean with "high" (or in other words, "high" compared to what) and throwing figures in units of measure we're not familiar with.

In fact I have the feeling some media are deliberately using units of measure that makes the figures "bigger" (like if I were to give pressure readings in PSI rather than BAR and then make it look something that is not because big numbers sell...) or trying to pass units of measure that are relative to time (like km/h) without the "time" value.

[vodka3dg]

Here's another very detailed and great article about what's has been going on at the nuclear plant written by some1 that really knows this stuff http://theenergycollective.com/barry...te-explanation - great read as it also educates you at the same time.

Also here's another quite good shorter one http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/arc...ushima-reactor

for those interested.

hope more ppl would read this. VERY interesting and educative read indeed.

thanks for posting.

edit: just read josh1980's inputs... thanks, everything makes a lot of sense now.

[dctokyo]

Many thanks again josh1980

First, you have a typo. Iodine 131

Thanks for correction, the news paper here printed Iodine 121, so I just repeated it here

also this is what the paper is reporting

On Monday, radiation at the plant’s premises rose over the benchmark limit of 500 micro sievert per hour at two locations, measuring 751 micro sievert at the first location at 2:20 a.m. and 650 at the second at 2:40 a.m., according to the report.

The hourly amounts are more than half the 1,000 micro sievert level to which people are usually exposed in one year.

The maximum level detected so far around the plant is 1,557.5 micro sievert logged Sunday.

[Kallenator]

Short and informative josh1980, thanks =)

Not to familiar with mrem/hr, more familiar with the concepts Becquerel and "counts per second" from physics classes.
Decent read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röntgen_equivalent_man <-mrem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becquerel

[Boissez]

Isn't there a good supply of iodine from ocean catch seafood and some salts though anyways?
Unless it's already contaminated.

It might not be enough but still.

edit:
Never heard of pills but I have heard of drops...
You can get drops from local farm supply stores I heard.
You're only supposed to use one drop.
But I am definitely no pro.
I would "assume" the gov is working on distribution of it for the country.

Iodine is the only thing I've ever heard of to use in case of a meltdown since it supposedly absorbs some of the radioactivity and passes it through your system.

I would check with a docter and ask for pro advice...

Stop. It's a very minor leak on the other side of the globe and nothing for you to worry about. FWIW the radiation residue from the nuclear testing of the 50'ies and 60'ies contributes way way way more to the background radiation where you live.

[NEOAethyr]

Oh oops...
Iodine and iodide, so close in spelling...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine

Radioactive iodine is a potential component of nuclear fallout, and a dangerous one due to the thyroid gland's propensity to concentrate iodine from the bloodstream. For this reason if people are expected to be exposed to a large dose of radioactive iodine, they may be instructed to take non-radioactive potassium iodide tablets. The typical adult dose is one 130 mg tablet per 24 hours. By ingesting a large amount of non-radioactive iodine, the proportion of radioactive iodine taken into the thyroid gland may be minimized. This is one way to try to mitigate the health impact of exposure to fallout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_iodide

The major uses of KI include use as a nutritional supplement in animal feeds and also the human diet. For the latter, it is the most common additive used to "iodize" table salt (a public health measure to prevent iodine deficiency in populations which get little seafood).

You can see why I had the 2 mixed up lol...

Anyways if you're in japan, I would ask a professional about getting some tablets for you and your fam.
You probably wanna use the very min dose.
Just as a precaution.

Or... perhaps using a pinch of salt on your food once a day will doit.
As long as it's the iodized salt type, and not the stuff without it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodised_salt

But then again it might be possible that the supply is already contaminated...
I really don't have a clue...
Getting the stuff directly from tokyo or kyoto (or non-north area's) "might" ensure it's ok...

I'm gonna be picking some new salt up myself...
Noticed before any of this happened that all my salt was the non-iodised type anyways.

I'm not trying to confuse.
Just trying to be helpful.

Edit:
@Boissez
Nah dude no worry, I'm not gonna take any pills or drops .
I will be getting some salt though, needed it anyways .

Supposedly nasa was the main contributer in the respect to radiation.
Some nuke powered sat crashed somewhere in canada along time ago I heard that spread radiation across the globe (not sure if this was true or not though, never looked it up).
My uncle worked on pacific nuke testing and in nevada building nukes, but that has nothing to do with me, I'm not his son or daughter so...

[h0bbes]

As josh said, cell death is most probably the best outcome after exposure to radiation (assuming that the DNA has been damaged). Damage in the DNA can lead to loss of cell control (cancer) or it could affect the next generation (if the germ cells are affected). Generally speaking, if the DNA of a cell gets damaged beyond repair, apoptosis (controlled cell death) should ideally happen.

[MadDias]

No reactor has exploded. As has been mentioned on multiple links on this forum, the reactor is not capable of exploding.

Are you done with the sensationalizing? Please don't try to tell people how stuff is if you don't thoroughly understand it. It just confuses people. First they read about the hydrogen explosion and that a nuclear reactor can't explode, then your comments, what are they supposed to believe?

Do you really think that the spokesperson for the operating company knows alot about what he/she is talking about? There's complete confusion down there i'm sure. People all over the place trying to keep water flowing and electricity on, etc. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that they're making mistakes while their families might be missing, their homes gone, etc. Why do you think the US is sending assistance over there? Because we can observer and provide some insight and help. The people we send have homes to go to, families that are back safe and sound.

I get the distinct impression you believe some kind of conspiracy is underway. You want in on a little secret? When all of this is said and done there will be tons of data on what transpired and when. There is tons of computer data that will be analysed thoroughly to piece together exactly what happened. What worked and what didn't work. Everyone around the world will know if the data was tampered with because the data won't make sense. There will be so much data on everything that's been going on there's no way someone could alter enough data to hide the tampering. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that somepeople will think the operators were lying, the japanese government was in on it, and that tons more radioactive material was released than claimed. But do this forum a big favor and don't add your BS to a topic you don't understand.

a reactor can´t explode? where do u live? ever poured water on a 500°C hot surface? the fuel rods reach around 2000°C when they´re not cooled.
how much data do u think is recorded when all ur instruments are blown away by a hydrogen/oxygen explosion? and that´s no bs, they admitted, that they have no data of what´s going on inside the reactor. when a reactor can´t stand a plane crash, they really can´t, no nuclear powerplant on earth can, how do u think it can stand such a heavy explosion?

by what u wrote i can see that u strongly believe in how safe nuclear power is and how US experts know what they do and can help the japanese experts. that´s what i call bs...
right now u see that it is impossible to safely shut down a damaged nuclear power plant no matter what kind of expert u are.

[MrToad]

a reactor can´t explode? where do u live? ever poured water on a 500°C hot surface? the fuel rods reach around 2000°C when they´re not cooled.
how much data do u think is recorded when all ur instruments are blown away by a hydrogen/oxygen explosion? and that´s no bs, they admitted, that they have no data of what´s going on inside the reactor. when a reactor can´t stand a plane crash, they really can´t, no nuclear powerplant on earth can, how do u think it can stand such a heavy explosion?

by what u wrote i can see that u strongly believe in how safe nuclear power is and how US experts know what they do and can help the japanese experts. that´s what i call bs...
right now u see that it is impossible to safely shut down a damaged nuclear power plant no matter what kind of expert u are.

Admittedly I don't know about nuclear reactors, but I do remember a experiment done is science class in school with butane gas bottles.

The fact was the amount of butane compressed an stored inside the bottle was not capable of, if ignited, generate enough pressure within the container to break the outer shell releasing explosive energy.

Perhaps the engineers did the same calculation with the reactor steel container and the amount of water you can store inside the container can't produce enough hydrogen if separation of oxygen and hydrogen happens through electrolysis to, in case of ignition, burst through the shell.

If that would be the case, and the shell is strong enough (is not a matter of material strength only, but also shape, it takes far more energy to "blast" through a cylinder with domed "ends" than it does to "blast" through a cube) then the reactor effectively can't explode.

If anything the weakest point, which making another educated guess would be the flow control valves, will give up under the pressure and release gases until the pressure within and without the container equalize. But I don't think this qualifies as an explosion. Would qualify as an uncontrolled discharge of gases potentially carrying radioactively charged particles, but according to my basic physics it wouldn't be an explosion.

As I said this is just an educated guess based on very basic physics, I don't have any formal training as a nuclear engineer.

[Don_Dan]

I just heard the news that a meltdown is imminent in reactor #2 of Fukushima 1.

Does anyone have more information?

[randomizer]

a reactor can´t explode? where do u live? ever poured water on a 500°C hot surface? the fuel rods reach around 2000°C when they´re not cooled.

Are they even flooding the core? I have seen different reports, some saying that they flooded the core and others saying that they flooded the containment chamber. That said, I don't really believe either report given that most throw in a plug for a Chernobyl repeat to give that little bit of extra sensationalism.