AMD Bulldozer server info

[Fatfool]

In 2009 the Enthusiast class high end hardware was some $9.2 billion (that is with a B not an M)... http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/...ulates-worldw/

This includes everything, from graphics cards to monitors ... let's say 1/10th of that is on the CPU .... this is 920 million just on CPUs, let's say AMD holds or takes just 1/3 of that market share, thats around 306 million in revenue for AMD annually. Mind you this is not DIYers, low end buyers who over clock, this is the highest end hardware. Let's say a hypothetical dual socket C34 enthusiast class desktop product fetches just 5% of that highest end stuff... that's roughly $15 million.

A lot of hand-waving, but there is money there to be had.

But what is dangerous is that now you need to support that platform for several life cycles, and dual socket desktop systems are, in actuality, not very popular so that hand-waving 5% assumption could be way way off. Sure, lots of people posting here have some 2P server related boards as desktops or you could look at the ill-fated QuadFX. So the actual share of market such a system might could certainly fall below the cost to develop and market the product.

But then again, if BD really delivers as the rumor mill is suggesting, people will buy it, if anything, to just brag.

Using G34 would be more expensive for them (2 dies plus possible cannibalisation of their high end server parts) C32 a better choice? (C32 is priced similarly to desktop parts and well, apparently lisbon is slightly older than thuban so there won't be cannibalisation here?)

[JumpingJack]

Using G34 would be more expensive for them (2 dies plus possible cannibalisation of their high end server parts) C32 a better choice?

Perhaps ... this is all arm-chair quarterbacking really, if there was money to made AMD would have considered it and moved on it. Perhaps we will be pleasantly surprised when it actually launches.

[Fatfool]

Perhaps ... this is all arm-chair quarterbacking really, if there was money to made AMD would have considered it and moved on it. Perhaps we will be pleasantly surprised when it actually launches.

I suppose. At least someone from the company's reading all this stuff we're posting around here.

[jeremyshaw]

I suppose. At least someone from the company's reading all this stuff we're posting around here.

Nah, they probably put me on ignore after the 3rd silly question

[FlanK3r]

Solus Corvus Its impossible, for AM3+ desktop and size this socket is maybe max 12 cores theoretical real (6 modules+large L3)

[RaV666]

16 cores on AM3+ or even 12 for that matter wont happen because AMD would have to do specially new die.
Thuban happened only because lisbon happened first.
And the new BD2 dies with more cores are going to be too different to implement on am3+ (integrated pcie etc).
MCM solution would need dedicated G34 single socket mobo (which no way in hell would cost 5mil as its all there), but AMD seems not interested in high end market right now.
It looks like AM3+ will be a short spanned socket like 1155 1156 intel ones.

[generics_user]

16 cores on AM3+ or even 12 for that matter wont happen because AMD would have to do specially new die.
Thuban happened only because lisbon happened first.
And the new BD2 dies with more cores are going to be too different to implement on am3+ (integrated pcie etc).
MCM solution would need dedicated G34 single socket mobo (which no way in hell would cost 5mil as its all there), but AMD seems not interested in high end market right now.
It looks like AM3+ will be a short spanned socket like 1155 1156 intel ones.

i have to agree

AM3+ is just a way of cutting costs and make the transition to LGA easier because they can keep some of their assembly lines in malaysia remotely unchanged

Llano will use the first desktop LGA socket form AMD and next gen bulldozer (2012) is going to transition the rest of their lineup to the LGA socket

however the last AMD analyst day roadmap also showed a 10 core Bulldozer C32 part which might be introduced to the AM3+ socket

[zalbard]

AM3+ is just a way of cutting costs and make the transition to LGA easier because they can keep some of their assembly lines in malaysia remotely unchanged

Or maybe just to release BD sooner because AMD is behind the schedule?

however the last AMD analyst day roadmap also showed a 10 core Bulldozer C32 part which might be introduced to the AM3+ socket

Yeah, why not. As another FX chip or so. Guess it's possible.

[jmm5351]

Read the previous page, Dual sockets for bulldozer already exists in the form of socket C32(with attractive prices) You can buy the Asus board now, the MSI board should be shipping next month.

I have known about these boards since they first existed, and like you said they are Socket C32. You may want to consider re-reading my post. I did not say Bulldozer, more specifically I said Zambezi dual socket systems. There is no way that a Zambezi AM3+ CPU is going to be compatible with C32.

[jmm5351]

i dont think amd ever said they cannot make dual socket zambesi. they have been saying all this time that dual socket desktoo segment is nearly dead and the more cores are released on single socket the more dead that segment is. it makes sense as you simply not find any games anywhere that will benefit from 16 cores. 8 cores is plenty for games and physics and its more important to have them clocked high than to stack up so many.
on the other hand if amd had a zambesi with quad channel ram on single socket g34 boards (aka athlon fx 51) that would be an interesting setup for hardcore gamers, and if they wanted more cores they could simply buy opterons. (amd could also limit the g34 zambesi to 1 socket so not to cannibilize the c32/g34 server segment.

thats just my way of seeing a super premium amd product.

You are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I NEVER stated in my post that AMD said they cannot make dual socket Zambezi processors. I said I am sick of people saying that it is technologically impossible to make Zambezi dual socket compatible. They do not know anything when it actually comes down to the design process of a processor, as I do not know anything either. If we did know how to design a processor, then everyone would have their own personally designed processor or would be rich as hell selling their design to a company. But if AMD can make something as crazy as a processor, or a GPU, or an APU, well then I am almost certainly positive if AMD wanted to then they could make Zambezi dual socket.

[jmm5351]

Solus Corvus Its impossible, for AM3+ desktop and size this socket is maybe max 12 cores theoretical real (6 modules+large L3)

Like this person saying that this is impossible. How the hell do you know that. Do you design processors right now for AMD or Intel. Because if you don't then you don't know that its impossible my friend. Show me proof why this is impossible. I am pretty knowledgeable in the field of microcontrollers, as I am currently an electrical and also mechanical engineer and worked at a firm that designed PIC Microcontrollers. I was part of the design process for over 6months there. Before that job I worked at a company called digital solutions incorporated and wrote programs for specific Microcontrollers. I am very aware of how a microcontroller or SOC's perform at a very technical level. So if you want you can try to sway me with your fancy terminology but just don't say something you don't know because I will know if you are just making stuff up to sound intelligent. Even with all my knowledge in Microcontrollers, I have no idea how Intel's or AMD's processors actually work. Yeah I know the technological fundamentals of how both processors work better than most people, but still I have no idea what their limitations are or anything along those lines. You need to actually work in the design department to know those things.

12 max cores theoretical, sounds like a good number but no one REALLY knows. It seems to me like your stating your fact by looking at the size of the socket????????????

[jogshy]

Big questions for me are:

1. Can the multipliers be unlocked? I ask this because BD-Opterons are really aimed to the server segment which usually hates overclocking due to statibility problems.

2. Any idea about its price, pls? I don't care if it's slower (globally speaking) than a Sandy Bridge because I usually buy computers using a "I have 200$ to buy a CPU. What's the fastest one I can buy with this money, pls?". Performance/price, that's what matters for me.

3. Can I plug the BD-Opteron into an AM3+ board? I ask this also because server boards usually don't support OC plus I would like to use the one I'm using currently...

[freeloader]

You are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I NEVER stated in my post that AMD said they cannot make dual socket Zambezi processors. I said I am sick of people saying that it is technologically impossible to make Zambezi dual socket compatible. They do not know anything when it actually comes down to the design process of a processor, as I do not know anything either. If we did know how to design a processor, then everyone would have their own personally designed processor or would be rich as hell selling their design to a company. But if AMD can make something as crazy as a processor, or a GPU, or an APU, well then I am almost certainly positive if AMD wanted to then they could make Zambezi dual socket.

I don't think it's impossible to do, just not practical for AMD.

[freeloader]

Big questions for me are:

1. Can the multipliers be unlocked? I ask this because BD-Opterons are really aimed to the server segment which usually hates overclocking due to statibility problems.

2. Any idea about its price, pls? I don't care if it's slower (globally speaking) than a Sandy Bridge because I usually buy computers using a "I have 200$ to buy a CPU. What's the fastest one I can buy with this money, pls?". Performance/price, that's what matters for me.

3. Can I plug the BD-Opteron into an AM3+ board? I ask this also because server boards usually don't support OC plus I would like to use the one I'm using currently...

1. Assuming the server Opterons have turbo core, then the CPU multipliers should be open upwards a few notches. Whether or not a server BIOS allows you to change them is a completely different story.

2. Nobody outside of AMD knows yet.

3. BD Opteron will not go into AM3+. BD Opteron is for socket G34 and C32.

[JumpingJack]

Solus Corvus Its impossible, for AM3+ desktop and size this socket is maybe max 12 cores theoretical real (6 modules+large L3)

Not impossible. Assume that an 8 core/4 module BD chip is 300 mm^2 (Hans DeVries estimate). A 16-core/8 module chip (single chip not MCM) would be roughly double that (600 mm^2).

An AM3 socket is 40 mm by 40 mm roughly, or 1600 mm^2. Physically it would be possible to fit a 600 mm^2 chip into said socket. For an MCM, it would be impossible or, at the very least, horribly impractical. If AMD were to go an MCM route they would need a larger socket just for the extra pins. Another factor making it difficult (perhaps impossible) would be power distribution through the package, hard to say.

What makes this basically impractical, though, is costs. You could sell it as a boutique CPU and charge upward of 1K, like the old FX series were priced. But the market for that would be extremely extremely small, it's hard to justify targeting such a small market as it would likely dictate a whole new set of masks and layout (cost would be prohibitive) to create a > 4 module die. Now, if they were to ramp a 6 or 8 module die for server, then they could repurpose silicon for a high high end DT sku.

I don't think it's impossible, but I also don't think we will see such a beast out of 32 nm.

[cky2k6]

Why is amd even bothering bringing back the fx brand? With only a 4 module chip, its only going to be relevant for like 3 months, until september rolls around. I mean, on one hand claiming that you're not interested in the high end desktop market and at the same time bringing back your brand equivalent of extreme editions makes my head hurt.

[FlanK3r]

wtf...??? Fake?

[jeremyshaw]

Lol.... why even bother XD

[kuroikenshi]

wtf...??? Fake?

that's even wore than going to a strip-club where all women wear winter clothes and they only remove their wrist wear in their shows....


well.... here's a little something I got my hands onto.....

[FlanK3r]

yes,I dont said, its not easy to edited, but maybe...for me its at 70% fake, at 30% chance can be right.

[-Boris-]

yes,I dont said, its not easy to edited, but maybe...for me its at 70% fake, at 30% chance can be right.

It doesn't matter if it's real or fake. Since it doesn't reveal any real information.
I consider it fake until I get something more to judge from.

[zalbard]

It doesn't matter if it's real or fake. Since it doesn't reveal any real information.
I consider it fake until I get something more to judge from.

This.
Pretty much worthless.

[DarthShader]

You can ask the guy here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/member.php?u=24552

I guess, it's him, right?

[freeloader]

wtf...??? Fake?

I smell something funny.

[-Boris-]

You can ask the guy here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/member.php?u=24552

I guess, it's him, right?

His profile says he's a 20 year old from South Africa. I doubt he has a Bulldozer.
Interesting status though, "nanoseconds from permban".