120mm Fan Testing on an MCR120 Radiator Round 6

[HanMies]

Going a bit off-topic here, but as we are discussing PWM connectors, I thought to put in a quick question:

Fans in e.g. PSUs or graphics cards sometimes use a four pin connector that is smaller and looks different from the standard 4-pin PWM. I don't have a picture, but the connector at the end of the fan cable goes into a socket on the card. The colors of the cables are the same as in standard PWM, but they are in a different order. Can anyone confirm that the colors and purposes of the cables are the same? In practice, can I just match the colors of the wires to attach a standard pwm fan to the smaller connector? Many thanks for any advice!

[fgw]

Going a bit off-topic here, but as we are discussing PWM connectors, I thought to put in a quick question:

Fans in e.g. PSUs or graphics cards sometimes use a four pin connector that is smaller and looks different from the standard 4-pin PWM. I don't have a picture, but the connector at the end of the fan cable goes into a socket on the card. The colors of the cables are the same as in standard PWM, but they are in a different order. Can anyone confirm that the colors and purposes of the cables are the same? In practice, can I just match the colors of the wires to attach a standard pwm fan to the smaller connector? Many thanks for any advice!

unfortunately this depends on the manufacturer. they might use their own pinout. if the fan is supposed to be connected to the motherboard it will comply to the pinout defined by intel. if it is supposed to connect to the vga card its up to the vga card manufacturer. i have already connected aftermarked fans to nvidia cards and can tell its not the same pinout as intel uses. you need to experiment and measure ...

[Philwong]

Going a bit off-topic here, but as we are discussing PWM connectors, I thought to put in a quick question:

Fans in e.g. PSUs or graphics cards sometimes use a four pin connector that is smaller and looks different from the standard 4-pin PWM. I don't have a picture, but the connector at the end of the fan cable goes into a socket on the card. The colors of the cables are the same as in standard PWM, but they are in a different order. Can anyone confirm that the colors and purposes of the cables are the same? In practice, can I just match the colors of the wires to attach a standard pwm fan to the smaller connector? Many thanks for any advice!

This is the PWM extension I customized for my ATI 5870 to drive two Artic Cooler F12 fans with built-in PWM amplifiers. I believe its pretty safe to follow the color code of the wires as follows;

GND = Black
12V = Yellow
RPM = Green
PWM = Blue

Source:
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...1_2_Public.pdf

Phil

[HanMies]

Thanks to Philwong and fgw for the tips! Turns out that the pwm pin order was correct but the colors wrong, and now my new PSU no longer sounds like a vacuum cleaner.

[cka3o4nuk]

Hello community
such a question
what will be better to 9x120 rad
9 gentle typhoon 850rpm
or 4 180mm Silverstone air penetrator?
gentle typhoon i plan to use at 500-600rpm max.

[MagisD]

Gt's check my build 29 1850 @800rpm and my corsair ps fan is louder.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Martinm210]

Hello community
such a question
what will be better to 9x120 rad
9 gentle typhoon 850rpm
or 4 180mm Silverstone air penetrator?
gentle typhoon i plan to use at 500-600rpm max.

Not sure, but in that scenario, you're talking about the same radiator resistance. In each case the fans work in parallel, so the resulting air flow will be a function of just one fan's pressure spec at that particular RPM.

600RPM is really hard to measure much of anything in either pressure or air flow. I would go for which ever has the smoothest sound.

I'm just starting in on the 140mm fan testing, so I really have no idea what to expect from the larger fans. The yate high speed I threw on my new 140mm template wasn't as good as I had hope. It seemed to exhibit some very minor motor tick, but also some odd harmonics perhaps with the blades flexing or something.

At 600RPM, I'm also not so sure the GTs are really any advantage over most fans, their performance difference (3dbA) or better tapers down to nearly nothing on fans below 1000RPMs. Personally I think some others could even be preferrable depending on your tastes.

All I know is the 120mm air penetrator didn't do very well in my earlier round of testing, it had some motor noise and really didn't have very good radiator performance.

That could change for the 180mm version I suppose....we just don't know much of anything about the larger sizes.

[Martinm210]

FYI,
I've finished building the 140mm fan testing template. Pretty much identical to the MCR120 template except using the Hardware Labs 140mm SR1.

Ready for some 140 runs this weekend...

[Martinm210]

And this is with the template and fan mounted...everything else will be the same.

Although, I'm thinking I should call this 140 testing round 7 so they are not confused.

[guilleguillaume]

This it's actually fantastic! I can't wait to see some results from the 140mm fans.

[Creekin]

+1 ^
120s are kids toys!
bring on the real man fans!
plus i have SR1s, so doubly keen to see the results

Although, I'm thinking I should call this 140 testing round 7 so they are not confused.

new thread for 140s please

[Church]

Martin: i'd love to see this time for 140mm fans being in same test/roundup as 120mm counterparts for single reason - i'd love to find out how good/bad they do compared to their smaller siblings on almost same testbed and on same chart. Are they up to job, or 140mm fans/rads are not reasonable choice as of yet compared to 120mm ones..? In few cases 140mm rads as being wider can give more rad area, but if fans cfm/db wise are not there yet, users should find out that for better planning of component choice ..

[Martinm210]

Martin: i'd love to see this time for 140mm fans being in same test/roundup as 120mm counterparts for single reason - i'd love to find out how good/bad they do compared to their smaller siblings on almost same testbed and on same chart. Are they up to job, or 140mm fans/rads are not reasonable choice as of yet compared to 120mm ones..? In few cases 140mm rads as being wider can give more rad area, but if fans cfm/db wise are not there yet, users should find out that for better planning of component choice ..

Have no fear, Vapor has stepped up and already sponsored an adapter..

All ready to go, although I'm not retesting all the 120s...only the top couple...


I'm not going to compare to the MCR120 rad test results though, that would be totally different restriction scenarios. Even this is a bit apples to oranges with the extra shroud benefit (depth plus extra vibration absoprtion) of the 120mm adapter, but it's the closest thing I can think of.

If it's really close I may even build a 140 > 140 shroud to run the top 140 performer on.

Anyhow, there will be a new round 7 for the 140s, but I will include a couple of 120 runs on an adapter just for that reason..

[mindwreck]

should change this to the 120mm fan test thread and make a new 140mm test thread and get them stickied.

[Wiser]

You should also check these fans - Scythe Kama Flow 2. Looks like another nice FDB fan - IMO way better than S-Flex, and is one of the best according to recent fan review by Jordan (in Russian, but you can check diagrams @ bottom ).

[affiliate13]

I'm just starting in on the 140mm fan testing, so I really have no idea what to expect from the larger fans. The yate high speed I threw on my new 140mm template wasn't as good as I had hope. It seemed to exhibit some very minor motor tick, but also some odd harmonics perhaps with the blades flexing or something.

Ah i didnt realise you had already got a high speed one. Pity about that, i had planned to have 24 horizontal but i may need to rethink, fast 140s are hard to find, even harder to find cheap. lol.

[shazza]

should change this to the 120mm fan test thread and make a new 140mm test thread and get them stickied.

Unfortunately, not many seem to read the information in the sticky at the top of this section


This will definitely be stickied when Martin is ready - up to him as to whether he wants to have separate threads for 120 and 140.

Nice Work, Martin - looking forward to your 140 results.

[Martinm210]

Unfortunately, not many seem to read the information in the sticky at the top of this section


This will definitely be stickied when Martin is ready - up to him as to whether he wants to have separate threads for 120 and 140.

Nice Work, Martin - looking forward to your 140 results.

Thanks!

Yes, and would you mind changing the thread title to:
120mm Fan Testing on an MCR120 Radiator Round 6
Please...thanks!

I'll have more 120s I'll be testing, so I will continue to update and add results here, but it's getting pretty close now, and I did finally get around to organizing the links at least alphabetically

I'll create a new round 7 thread for the 140mm radiator based testing..

[Martinm210]

You should also check these fans - Scythe Kama Flow 2. Looks like another nice FDB fan - IMO way better than S-Flex, and is one of the best according to recent fan review by Jordan (in Russian, but you can check diagrams @ bottom ).

I thought about picking one of those up, but it didn't make the cut. I chose to spend the last of my fan fund on another Delta and a few more PWM fan options for something to fill in the med/high speed and PWM only gaps. If you want to sponsor one though, let me know..

[OldChap]

This is such complete info Martin and so useful. I shall be interested to see how the best of the 120's perform on the SR1. For a long time now it has been talked about under the heading "Which fan for which rad" so to see the flow rates for this in black and white should finally provide people with impirical evidence to support the claims.

FYI: No new offers of fans, in wanted, by the way

[shazza]

Title changed, and added this thread to the Sticky Section ...

[Martinm210]

Title changed, and added this thread to the Sticky Section ...

Perfect...thanks!!

[coolhandluke41]

@Martinm210..first of all thank you for all the hard work on the past and this test/roundup on 140MM fans
I know there is not that many good 140's out there but if you could find (in your pile) Scythe KAMA-FLEX 135/140MM 1600RPM that would be great !
I have this fan on Hardware Labs 140mm SR1 and would love to see the results .Thanks again

[Martinm210]

@Martinm210..first of all thank you for all the hard work on the past and this test/roundup on 140MM fans
I know there is not that many good 140's out there but if you could find (in your pile) Scythe KAMA-FLEX 135/140MM 1600RPM that would be great !
I have this fan on Hardware Labs 140mm SR1 and would love to see the results .Thanks again

I'll keep an eye on that one, we'll see..

FYI to all....anyone that wants to see the data in various bar or other formats, may want to try this. This is still in draft form, so let us know if you see errors.

AndreaBZ SPREADSHEET LINK

AndreaBZ took the data collected and created an analysis spreadsheet, so anyone that wants to sort the data into different formats can easily do so. To do this, he had to create trendline equations for all the data, so it's going to average out some of the bumps from the actual data points. The great things is you can now sort by CFM or dbA or RPM and click a macro button to automatically sort the results. You can also pick and choose up to 5 fans and compare the charts.

Here is the PM he sent me, thanks for doing this:

I have corrected the 3000 UK .... V2.
Let me know if you find some other error.


http://ultrashare.net/hosting/fl/6cf...1/FANS_MLL_v02

For the moment, use this link

[shazza]

OK ... I've been through all the data, looked at the charts, listened to the recordings, and trying to figure out what it all means

It's easy enough to point people to this thread for detailed info - but knowing there are folks who won't go through all the data, I've been thinking about how to explain this stuff in simple terms (and how I will use it myself).

Bear with me while I think as I type here - just wanting to make sure I'm on the right path.


Assuming I'm using a Swiftech MCR radiator with a fan controller. I want "good" performance, and I'm not looking for extremely high (or low) speed fans ... I've got a number of fans in mind, because I've used them and heard about others. So how do I use this data to help me decide? I've picked these out to examine -

1) Gentle Typhoons ... GT13, GT14, or GT 15 - to be determined (tbd)

2) Noise Blocker - but which one ... tbd

3) Zalman ZM-F3 - never used these, but they have previously received a lot of good feedback

4) Yate Loon - specific one tbd (have used them, and their price can't be beat)

5) Scythe S-Flex (picked these because I've used them and liked them)

6) Enermax Magma - have used them, and one of the few "red" fans without LEDs

7) Noctua - I like them on a heatsink - what about on a radiator?


Okay, 7 brands are more than enough for me to consider.

My next question: How much air do I need to move with these fans? After using the eXtreme PSU calculator, and some other estimator spreadsheets, I figure out I should be okay if I can run in the 1200 RPM range. Not too scientific, but my previous experience tells me this will work for me. But wait, I just read 15 pages about fans, and they aren't ranked by RPM. Ahhh ... I guess I should be more concerned about CFM. Looks like my previous fans have been in the 20 to 30 CFM range, so I'll start with that. Hey - I thought these fans were pushing 50 - 70 CFM

Sometimes I might want more airflow, and sometimes less, so I'd also like fans with a decent range.

And, noise - my hearing isn't what it used to be, so absolute silence isn't critical. But, I tend to use a lot of fans, so quieter is better. I wear headphones when gaming, so louder fans on occasion is also okay.

I'm going to start by looking at the chart that shows min and max CFM for my candidate fans:


Gentle Typhoons (minCFM - Max CFM) all readings rounded, since this isn't rocket science

GT13......................9 - 24
GT14......................8 - 28
GT15.....................13 - 35


Noiseblocker
M12-S3.................18 - 32
PL-2......................13 - 25


Zalman
ZM-F3....................15 - 37
ZMSF3....................16 - 30


Yate Loon
SL Petra...................15 - 30
SM Petra..................18 - 37


Scythe S-Flex
S-FlexF.....................9 - 31
KFlexH.....................12 - 38


Enermax
Magma.....................15 - 30


Noctua
P12...........................17 - 25
S12B.........................15 - 26


Not a lot of difference, but I'll rule out the ones that are below 30 on the high end of their CFM range, just because I want to have a little more flexibility at the high end, and I'm pretty sure airflow in a case environment is going to be less than in the test procedure. (edit ... just realized I should have kept the Yate Medium in for the next pass, but won't go back and add it now)


That Scythe KFlexH looks interesting (*goes back and reads the individual review) ... thumbs up from Martin, they're available from Amazon with prime shipping (just checking availability). I'll take this fan to the next round.

The Scythe GT 15 looks good ... on to the next round.

Same for Noiseblocker Multiframe M12-S1. Looks a little weird, but let's keep it under consideration.

And the ZM-F3 deserves another look,just because I've heard so much about it.


Now I've picked four fans to check out further. You can tell I'm biased to getting a "medium" speed fan that has more potential at the higher end. Simply preference on my part ... not meant to imply any real significant difference in performance.



Let's look at noise for my 4 picks to see if I can rule any out based on noise:


I looked at the summary chart in Post 1, and the bar graphs showing dbA @ 20CFM and at 30CFM. The dbA data at 20CFM and 30CFM, followed by Martin's subjective noise rating, shows the following:


KFlexH....................39 - 49 dbA, 8.5

GT15.......................35 - 43 dbA, 7.5

NB M12-S3..............39 - 49 dbA, 9.0

ZM-F3......................39 - 50 dbA, 8.3


I think any of these would work - now my choice is based on other factors like pricing, availability, and power. All else being equal, I'd go with the GT15s at this point - given the discernible difference to the human ear is about 3 dbA (as mentioned earlier by Martin).


But, I'd like to know if there are any big differences in Power requirements ... rather than looking up the specs (which may, or may not, be correct) I'm going to pick a number off of Martin's "CFM vs. Watts" chart. I'll pick 30 CFM as my comparison point:


KFlexH.........................0.70W

GT15...........................0.60 W

M12-S3.......................1.50 W

ZM-F3.........................1.10 W


Kind of interesting. I knew the GTs had low power consumption numbers, as I'm using them in a current build, and was surprised when I was doing my calculations for how many could fit on my fan controller.

When you have 12+ fans in a build, power consumption is worth considering.

A quick look at pricing (admittedly,this hasn't been my top criterion - but it's become more important since I've reached the age of living on a fixed income ):

The KFlexH is $12-14, the GT15 is about $16 when you can find it. The Noiseblocker is $20+, and the ZM-F3 can be had for less than $10.

(I still don't think you can beat the Yates for lower speed fans if you're looking for a bargain).

Some of us are particular about how a fan looks. For a quiet no-frills black fan, I'd be inclined to give the KFlexH a go. I might choose the Noiseblockers if the color combination fit with my build.

So ... that's how I'd use the data to pick a fan. Of course, I didn't have to do all of that, did I? The GT15 turns out to be my top choice, and I could have picked that up from the first chart.

But ... I had no idea the KFlexH even existed, so good learning there. I also now know to check my power setup if I pick up some Noiseblockers. And, I also understand where my existing Scythe S-Flex, Yates, and Enermax fans fit in terms of noise and CFM performance.

Whew ... I'm tired now. Good thing it's tail hour in Florida!

to Martin for all his hard work.