120mm Fan Testing on an MCR120 Radiator Round 6

[MagisD]

PPCS was taking preorders last i checked. Main comp with bookmarks down while i leaktest new mb and block.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Waterlogged]

Yeah, I knew about the FC-2 first revision causing whine, but I wasn't sure if it happened on other fan controllers, which is why I asked. Hey MD, got a link to someone selling the FC-t?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=29336

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12...?tl=g47c17s286

[Martinm210]

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=29336

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12...?tl=g47c17s286

Bummer, I thought the Lamptron folks said the touch was PWM, not voltage controlled.........was hoping it was PWM. 30 watts seems like a LOT without heatsinks using voltage control..?

Back in town, so I'll start publishing the rest of batch 7 as the PC cranks through them. The PAPST is up next...

[Creekin]

Main comp with bookmarks down while i leaktest new mb and block.

chrome sync ftw!

[Martinm210]

PAPST Type 4112 N/2H

Special thank to Utnorris for sponsoring this fan..

A unique metal frame fan (Blades are plastic) that runs backwards. It has a really low dbA/CFM ratio at 5V, but it resonated at 6V and climbed up quickly. Definitely has some motor noise, but these microphones are extremely sensitive, so it's probably not as strong as the audio makes it out to be.

I would recommend running it at 9V and above to minimize the motor noise. It's too bad 5V doesn't have a smoother motor sound, it did really well at that point in noise level. I do like the all metal frame, and it's fairly efficient.

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzVLk59z5BY







COMPARED TO ALL FANS TESTED SO FAR

[Creekin]

PAPST Type 4112 N/2H

Special thank to Utnorris for sponsoring this fan..

A unique all metal fan that runs backwards.

when you say "all metal" does that include blades or just frame?
(my googlefu has failed me on this task)

any thoughts on WHY they run backwards? pros/cons?

[Martinm210]

when you say "all metal" does that include blades or just frame?
(my googlefu has failed me on this task)

any thoughts on WHY they run backwards? pros/cons?

Just the frame, I should fix that.

I'm not sure why they run that way....

[MagisD]

There from south of the equator? Like toilets?

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Creekin]

hmm that would explain why my "normal" fans don't work so well here in Oz
better order some of those papsts

btw mythbusters, amongst others disproved the toilet myth, the direction of flow is determined by the shape of the bowl mainly

[Martinm210]

hmm that would explain why my "normal" fans don't work so well here in Oz
better order some of those papsts

btw mythbusters, amongst others disproved the toilet myth, the direction of flow is determined by the shape of the bowl mainly

Really? Darn...and I trusted my grade school science teacher all these years..

[Creekin]

those who can, do (like yourself)
those who can't, teach!

[Martinm210]

Yate Loon D12SM-12 From PPCS

In an effort to check on the various yates out there, Vapor sent me a sample from PPCS.

Compared to my PTS and SWC samples...testing much the same from a noise perspective, although it this one does appear to draw a touch more power (2.5watts vs 2 watts). I'm not sure if that's sample variance or not..

Regardless, noise is what I'm comparing here, and it's equally as good as the SWC and PTS samples. Only other difference I could see is the SWC version did not come with a front hub sticker...this one did.

Noise quality is equally as good also. Perhaps I'm suffering from 38mm fan click annoyance, but it was quite pleasing to listen to some yates again. Very smooth air like sound with really no obvious motor noises or resonance anywhere to be found.

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jZteo-ZlGA

I'll give it another thumbs up for bang for the buck fan....







COMPARED TO ALL FANS TESTED SO FAR

[Martinm210]

Yate Loon D12SL-12 Curved Blade FCPU

Another fan sponsored by Vapor, thanks!

This time a sample from FCPU of the SL model. While noise level/CFM seemed roughly the same +- 1dBA, this one also consumed slightly more power (2.27 watts) than the PTS SL version(1.45 watts) similar to the PPCS SM vs PTS SM models. Unfortunately this one also has a very small tick in the motor. This is pretty minor considering the silent testing environment (no masking ambient noise) and very sensitive microphones, but I do hear a minor amount of motor tick present that was not apparent in the PTS sample.

Perhaps this too is just sample variance, but I prefer the PTS sample tested earlier mostly due to the smoother sound.

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlf7HIJpJJM







COMPARED TO ALL FANS TESTED SO FAR

[Martinm210]

Scythe SlipStream High Speed-V (Vapor Sample)

Special thanks to Vapor for providing this sample. The one I tested previous was actually being used as a case fan for a little while, so it was good to get a nice fresh sample to compare.

It came in fairly close +-1dbA, but this test did perform better. Noise quality is much the same, so I'm not going to bother with rendering another video.

Anyhow, here are the results, I'll add this information to the original sample post. In general this sample shows a fairly strong CFM/dbA at lower volts compared to most fans, and sort of creeps up into the pack at 12V. Noise quality wise, I don't think it's quite as good as the yates for example, but it's all fairly close and subjective. It is a power hungry little fan though, all 4.5 watts much like the other sample.



COMPARED TO ALL

[Martinm210]

Here are some temporary tables to supplement the very busy line graphs:

This is sort of a summary table:


And a break down of 20, 30, 40, and 50 CFM levels with lowest noise to loudest noise levels in dbA.

[ggdh]

Nice summary. Especially for thick radiators (20cfm). GTs take all

[Martinm210]

FYI, ordered a few more from SWC tonight:


Hoping the delta follows a similar good cfm/dbA routine of it's VHE counterpart, and the other two for some additional PWM options. I've been working on my PWM controller, the 4 pin is working great (Modified it with a 5V VRM so I can just feed it 12V only) and now I'm attempting to build a 3 pin version to hopefully try if all goes well.

This is the 3pin PWM version I'm going to attempt...
http://pcbheaven.com/circuitpages/PW...r_using_a_555/

[fgw]

I've been working on my PWM controller, the 4 pin is working great (Modified it with a 5V VRM so I can just feed it 12V only) and now I'm attempting to build a 3 pin version to hopefully try if all goes well.

This is the 3pin PWM version I'm going to attempt...
http://pcbheaven.com/circuitpages/PW...r_using_a_555/

in the circuit described in this link, a transistor to switch the ground line of the fan (low side switching) is used. would be a big surprise if you get usable rpm readings this way. recommend to use so called high side switching, which is connecting the transistor between +12V and the fan. but you need a different type of transistor here and probably a second transistor to shift voltage levels.

also i expect you will run into the same problem i did, which is very limited rpm control. in this circuit ability to control rpm is also highly dependent on load (fan current rating).

but give it a try.

as already stated in another thread (#33 #36 #54 so far), required power (wattage) is totally overrated. even the most demanding fan in your tests here (Delta AFB1212VHE) will produce less than about 2.5W power dissipation in the controlling transistor. look for my postings in this thread for more details on issues with PWM control.

efficiency:
trying to save 1W maybe 2W per fan seems nonsense to me, when we are using systems which burn several hundreds of watts in total!

heat:
same here, it should not be that big of a deal to get rid of this additional few watts generated by the fan controller.

analog fan control on the other hand gives you easy rpm control independent of fan current rating and also usable rpm readings at very low rpm.

but that's my point of view, others might be more particular here ...

[Martinm210]

in the circuit described in this link, a transistor to switch the ground line of the fan (low side switching) is used. would be a big surprise if you get usable rpm readings this way. recommend to use so called high side switching, which is connecting the transistor between +12V and the fan. but you need a different type of transistor here and probably a second transistor to shift voltage levels.

also i expect you will run into the same problem i did, which is very limited rpm control. in this circuit ability to control rpm is also highly dependent on load (fan current rating).

but give it a try.

as already stated in another thread (#33 #36 #54 so far), required power (wattage) is totally overrated. even the most demanding fan in your tests here (Delta AFB1212VHE) will produce less than about 2.5W power dissipation in the controlling transistor. look for my postings in this thread for more details on issues with PWM control.

efficiency:
trying to save 1W maybe 2W per fan seems nonsense to me, when we are using systems which burn several hundreds of watts in total!

heat:
same here, it should not be that big of a deal to get rid of this additional few watts generated by the fan controller.

analog fan control on the other hand gives you easy rpm control independent of fan current rating and also usable rpm readings at very low rpm.

but that's my point of view, others might be more particular here ...

Awesome, thanks!

I've got some reading to do... Having a ton of fun building these mini circuits, so even if I fail, it's all good fun and likely a good learning effort at the same time.

The only reason I'm exploring PWM and alternative controlling methods is to see if there is any difference in how the fans react. But really...I'm just using this as an excuse to play with my electronics learning lab....

[fgw]

But really...I'm just using this as an excuse to play with my electronics learning lab....

good idea! go ahead and practice. no need to send you a prototype you can build one at your own when my design is done ...

[jumper2high]

I wouldn't be surprised if your measured noise levels are different when using PWM, because fans act as very simple loudspeakers emitting a tone. Ideally, if your time base for PWM is above 20KHz - you won't hear it, but the noise measuring equipment might still pick it up.

[Martinm210]

good idea! go ahead and practice. no need to send you a prototype you can build one at your own when my design is done ...

Nice! Give me a circuit and I will build...

I wouldn't be surprised if your measured noise levels are different when using PWM, because fans act as very simple loudspeakers emitting a tone. Ideally, if your time base for PWM is above 20KHz - you won't hear it, but the noise measuring equipment might still pick it up.

I just tried a quick test during the day, and the dbA/CFM lines were exactly the same other than I didn't have any voltage targets to go by in the PWM test.

Here is a quick video comparison of Voltage vs PWM from that pcbheaven design.

As far as I could tell, the noise level and quality were the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzFdkLVJt5A

[Martinm210]

good idea! go ahead and practice. no need to send you a prototype you can build one at your own when my design is done ...

Nice! Give me a circuit and I will build...

I wouldn't be surprised if your measured noise levels are different when using PWM, because fans act as very simple loudspeakers emitting a tone. Ideally, if your time base for PWM is above 20KHz - you won't hear it, but the noise measuring equipment might still pick it up.

I just tried a quick test during the day, and the dbA/CFM lines were exactly the same as the previous voltage run, other than I didn't have any voltage targets to go by in the PWM test.

Here is a quick video comparison of Voltage vs PWM from that pcbheaven design.

As far as I could tell, the noise level and quality were the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzFdkLVJt5A

I ran it on the breadboard..wasn't sure if I would like it or not. It does seem to work fine, but I'm not really seeing any advantage. I loose RPM readout and it performs the same pretty much.

It was fun building though..

[Boulard83]

I really like this PWM vs Volts test !

I alwais plugged my UK3 on a standard controller cause i already read that somewhere but never tested.... PWM is worse.

[fgw]

I alwais plugged my UK3 on a standard controller cause i already read that somewhere but never tested.... PWM is worse.

would agree as long as we are talking at controlling 3-wire (non PWM) fans.

if it comes to 4-wire (PWM) fans, PWM is the way to go. this fans have their PWM controller already built into them. their controller is designed and tuned for the fan motor used in this fan and will work pretty well over a wide rpm range. on top of that, this fans provide rpm readings all the way down to lowest rpm without any problem as their rpm detection circuitry is powered from a steady 12V supply.

but as i said before, currently most fans, and as it looks like now, also the better performing fans (cfw/noise wise) are 3-wire (non PWM) fans, so i will focus on them.