ATI cannot make working video drivers

[Blkout]

I seriously don't have time to scour the internet all night looking for thread and posts about this issue, but certainly those that have used Nvidia's cards for the last 5 years or more know this issue has at least existed if they've been part of any major tech forum or hadve eyes that notice this issue.

Here's just a few threads and posts I found in a quick search, I even found some that go back to 2005 but I just figured you would say they're irrelevent because Nvidia must have corrected the problem over the years. There are lots of suggestions and "fixes" for this issue but you can read about plenty of people that have tried just about everything and the problem still exists. I Just don't think Nvidia focuses on 2D image quality the way ATI does, just my opinion. I will freely admit that I haven't used the GTX 400 series yet so if the problem has finally been corrected then that's fantastic, but the problem was still there when I sold my GTX 285 last year.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=30981

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=75746

http://www.sevenforums.com/graphic-c...m-display.html

http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=64561


Like I stated before, if you can't see the difference then be thankful.

[audiofreak]

Many people play games with V-sync disabled

If you mean "many out of those who play first person shooters with old engines which can push 300+ FPS on modern hardware", then I agree.

For all other kinds of games steady FPS is preferred and V-SYNC is necessary for TFT/LCD gaming.

...unless you never turn your PC on except when you want to play a game, if so you're by FAR in the minority.

What I said is that people who play games spend more time doing that than they spend emailing or surfing. You clearly fall into the other category and therefore you cannot judge the driver quality for games.

the difference in text sharpness is immediately apparent.

From the links you have provided it seems that I was spot on when I said "scaling" -- there is nothing to fix, it is not a broken driver but broken monitor EDID which forces driver to use incorrect settings.

It is obvious that ATI driver does some sort of override, and gets you the correct picture, but if I had a broken monitor which doesn't report proper EDID I would personally prefer to know so that I never buy the same brand again.

Here are step by step instructions how to fix it:
http://files.bortweb.com/how_to_fix_...en_or_text.htm

It's pretty obvious by your post that you don't have a long history with ATI or Nvidia, these are known isssues with Nvidia that have been there for years and stated by many people.

Yeah, I owned NVIDIA cards only since GeForce 256, and ATI only since Radeon 9600 Pro, that makes me a total n00b

[Carfax]

Like I stated before, if you can't see the difference then be thankful.

Did you even read those threads? The issues in those threads stemmed either from driver problems or monitor issues and they were all solved one way or another..

The way you phrased your original comment however, made it seem as though Nvidia has an INNATE defect of some sort which screws up 2D quality.....which is disingenuous to say lightly

[[XC] Oj101]

This seems to be quite an active thread, ATI guys I need your help! http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=259465

[Funky]

Nvidia 2D quality issues are very real. And its not only related to EDID alone for sure. I had tried EDID fix, did nothing. Its still not good. I have inputs from both ati running system and my nv running main rig to my U2410 and there is definite difference on the way 2D is displayed by the two cards. I have said this before as well. It looks more to do with the way clear type is rendering text our the easy two do text AA. Its.minor and you can liver with it. But it keeps bugging me.
The EDID fix itself is not quick fix either. Most people will give up after reading the fix.

The problem is that both companies have glaring issues. The best thing for end customer at the moment is to chose according to your priority and use. And most importantly find the driver that works for your system. There is no need to update driver just because new one is out. Sure give it a try. If it does not work for you, you can easily go back. I have always managed to find a drive which works well with the games I am playing at that moment. There is no real reason to about all the things that have gone wrong for others. Both companies will have issues with minority user's systems even though it might seem a lot when you see it posted on the net.

I am still on 10.4a for ati and 259.32 for my nv system.
260.63 which are praised by some and even reviews by some sites work like crap on my system. And 10.4a are overall faster for me with minimum issues. All you need to do is find one that works for you.

Sent from Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk Pro. So blame swipy for all typos and crap.

[Blkout]

Did you even read those threads? The issues in those threads stemmed either from driver problems or monitor issues and they were all solved one way or another..

The way you phrased your original comment however, made it seem as though Nvidia has an INNATE defect of some sort which screws up 2D quality.....which is disingenuous to say lightly

So you're willing to admit that Nvidia has driver issues? Checkmate.

And no, they weren't all solved, lots of people tried upgrading drivers and various other work-arounds and many of them still had problems after. Like I said, its been going on for years with Nvidia, blame it on the hardware or the drivers, but the problem is very much real.

[Blkout]

If you mean "many out of those who play first person shooters with old engines which can push 300+ FPS on modern hardware", then I agree.

For all other kinds of games steady FPS is preferred and V-SYNC is necessary for TFT/LCD gaming.



What I said is that people who play games spend more time doing that than they spend emailing or surfing. You clearly fall into the other category and therefore you cannot judge the driver quality for games.



From the links you have provided it seems that I was spot on when I said "scaling" -- there is nothing to fix, it is not a broken driver but broken monitor EDID which forces driver to use incorrect settings.

It is obvious that ATI driver does some sort of override, and gets you the correct picture, but if I had a broken monitor which doesn't report proper EDID I would personally prefer to know so that I never buy the same brand again.

Here are step by step instructions how to fix it:
http://files.bortweb.com/how_to_fix_...en_or_text.htm



Yeah, I owned NVIDIA cards only since GeForce 256, and ATI only since Radeon 9600 Pro, that makes me a total n00b

You win dude, how does it feel to be a God among mortals? Since ATI is the devil, why don't you go ahead and eliminate this plague Armageddon style and banish ATI forever with your infinite power?

Long live Nvidia, the company that is flawless among others.

[dengyong]

I'm rarely in favor of more rules, but I think we need a new one to stop the Ati/Nvidia flames. Something like... no Ati discussion in an Nvidia thread and... no Nvidia discussion in an Ati thread.

[m0n4g3]

installed 10.9a's on my system a couple of nights ago. Fixed my mouse corruption in SC2, fixed the overscan issues i was having with 10.8, and haven't had a single issue with the install.

Using the normal method of add/remove programs, change ati catalyst install manager, remove all ati stuff, then restart and re-install latest drivers.

GG ATI finally getting somewhere!

[reflex]

I just wish BFBC2 would work. That is all.
I was a bit anti this thread in the beginning, but experience is changing my mind

[audiofreak]

I'm rarely in favor of more rules, but I think we need a new one to stop the Ati/Nvidia flames. Something like... no Ati discussion in an Nvidia thread and... no Nvidia discussion in an Ati thread.

I totally agree with you.

There is no need to update driver just because new one is out.

What if the new driver is needed to properly support a new game you just bought and want to play, and this new driver screws up one of the old games you are still playing?

Because that is what happens very often with ATI drivers you know.

Do you really expect me to keep switching drivers so I can play different games?

[Funky]

I totally agree with you.



What if the new driver is needed to properly support a new game you just bought and want to play, and this new driver screws up one of the old games you are still playing?

Because that is what happens very often with ATI drivers you know.

Do you really expect me to keep switching drivers so I can play different games?

I don't argue your point. That's why I said you have to try new drivers.
Even then unless you play 10 games at a time, I am sure there is already one set out there that will work for you. Even the relatively buggy drivets are not as bad as people make them out to be. . Even 10.9 hf are not bad. But still I prefer 10.4 for the performance with certain older games and they are better for benching.

There are 20 odd set of drivers if you count leaked beta for 5000 series. Those of us who are using 5 series since last year already know what works on our system. You need to find one for your system.

I am just glad I have both systems (nvidia and ati) here. Nvidia too had some silly bugs. Most of them in 2d where I spend more time than gaming.

Its sad that there is no perfect driver out there. But then this is pc gaming scene, not console.

And don't forget, its not always ati's fault or nvidia' s fault that causes issues with a particular game. Many times developer is at fault.

In the end I don't care about any other synthetic benchmarks other than competitive ones like spi and 3dmark.



Sent from Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk Pro.

[audiofreak]

But still I prefer 10.4 for the performance with certain older games and they are better for benching.

Now sit back and read the above sentence until it sinks in. Does it make sense?

If I set aside my tech-savvy character for a moment it does not make sense at all!

As a consumer who paid for a finished product with (limited) vendor support, I should not have driver version preferences. I should not bother with finding which one is right for me -- they should all work acceptably, and above all should not break what worked before.

Regressions are my main gripe, and fixing them boils down to better and more rigorous testing procedures before driver release.

And don't forget, its not always ati's fault or nvidia' s fault that causes issues with a particular game. Many times developer is at fault.

As a developer who has written OpenGL applications, I can assure you that IF it happens that the fault is caused by the developer, it is usually because:

a) Developer did not understand how to use an API correctly.

This is usually caused by a vague specification and lack of good code samples which boils down to vendor's fault (athough I can't deny that there are some stupid developers as well).

b) Developer was not aware that one of the vendors did not implement an API according to said specification and requires a workaround.

This is clearly vendor's fault.

c) Developer implemented everything according to API specification and tested using hardware from one vendor only, and the other vendor (or even different video card from the same vendor) has a driver bug for that particular functionality.

Again, vendor's fault.

So whatever way you try to justify them, both ATI and NVIDIA are still guilty.

By the way, I do have 10 different games installed, but its not only the games that you need to care about when picking right drivers.

It is HD video playback, Flash, Adobe products, operating system -- basically any application which uses video card 2D/3D/video acceleration functionality (which is pretty much all of them nowadays). That is why this meddling with driver versions is even more annoying -- I want to use the product, not to perform compatibility testing for hardware vendors for free.

[hafiqb]

Just for everyone who is dissappointed with ATI'S own. You can head over to Guru3D and download TwL modified drivers.

I am now using his newest set for crossfire setups (4.7) which is based on 10.9 and I fully recommend it.

HDMI scaling is ok and so far all games tested (Dirt2, Just cause2, Mass Effect2, Crysis, Alien Vs Predator) run very good and just feel smoother. Its quite amazing. I remember that in the days of the X1800XT and X1900XT I was using always Omega drivers + ATI Tray Tools, seems the pattern is still there. So again give it a try (BTW recommended to delete all old drivers, I have used Driver cleaner and no issue).

[dengyong]

Just for everyone who is dissappointed with ATI'S own. You can head over to Guru3D and download TwL modified drivers.

Link please... I can't find any TwL modified drivers there.

[Final8ty]

I totally agree with you.



What if the new driver is needed to properly support a new game you just bought and want to play, and this new driver screws up one of the old games you are still playing?

Because that is what happens very often with ATI drivers you know.

Do you really expect me to keep switching drivers so I can play different games?

That also happeneds with NV drivers as well.
Do you want to challenge me to not be able to find a post that the latest NV driver has not broken some things in games for some users ?

[dengyong]

That also happeneds with NV drivers as well.
Do you want to challenge me to not be able to find a post that the latest NV driver has not broken some things in games for some users ?

This is an ATI discussion in the ATI section. Why do you bring up another manufacturer ? Does your position absolve ATI ? Do two wrongs make it right ?

[hafiqb]

Following is the link to TwL modified Catalyst drivers (this is the thread in the forum, the actual download link is in the thread at the start): http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=322616

[dengyong]

Following is the link to TwL modified Catalyst drivers (this is the thread in the forum, the actual download link is in the thread at the start): http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=322616

Thanks.

[Final8ty]

This is an ATI discussion in the ATI section. Why do you bring up another manufacturer ? Does your position absolve ATI ? Do two wrongs make it right ?

Because another manufacturer has already been brought up in reference to the driver issue in this thread.
So don't make out like I'm the one who brought the other manufacture into this discussion.

[audiofreak]

Because another manufacturer has already been brought up in reference to the driver issue in this thread.
So don't make out like I'm the one who brought the other manufacture into this discussion.

NVIDIA should have never been brought up in the first place -- do you cross the street on the red light if you see others doing it? Do you also steal because "others do it"?

The question you got asked is correct, but let me rephrase it so you can understand it easier:

Q: Does the fact that the NVIDIA users are having the same kind of problems with NVIDIA drivers make it less of a problem for ATI owners?

And the answer is:

A: NO IT DOES NOT!

So please, leave NVIDIA out of this topic.

Regarding TwL drivers, it is amazing that someone who is just reverse-engineering and patching drivers can fix things that people who are writing the driver are uncapable of fixing.

Unfortunately, using 3rd-party modified binaries without insight in what has been changed is against my computer and software usage philosophy.

In other words -- I want official drivers fixed, not someone doing ATI's job for them for free.

[Final8ty]

1)NVIDIA should have never been brought up in the first place -- do you cross the street on the red light if you see others doing it? Do you also steal because "others do it"?

2)The question you got asked is correct, but let me rephrase it so you can understand it easier:

3)Q: Does the fact that the NVIDIA users are having the same kind of problems with NVIDIA drivers make it less of a problem for ATI owners?

And the answer is:

A: NO IT DOES NOT!

So please, leave NVIDIA out of this topic.

1) well it was so jump on the person who brought it in & a stupid analogy.

2) i did understand but the phrase is used to claim one has & other does not so use the correct phrase in the first place.

3) no it does not make it less of an ati problem but that's not the point of my comment or something that i was claiming or do you want me to re phrase it.

I made a true comment about NV having the same issue & that's all, it could of been left to die there but others chose not to leave it there.

[hafiqb]

audiofreak, understand your opinion on 3rd party drivers. It is unacceptable that the driver team seems unable to do it and they should know the drivers better than anyone. Whether this is due to skill, don't care attitude or focusing to much on blogging/PR, who knows...

Clearly all the crap of Catalyst feedback form is not working, seems again just a PR move to be able to tell disgruntled people that they have all this, hence they are taking care of the customers feedback.

Given this situation trying 3rd party drivers is an option I have no issue with. After all the bad feeling I had trying ATI's own drivers I now feel again that it was worth buying my crossfire setup. I don't want to sound like an old granny, but really: WHEN DOES AMD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS DRIVER TEAM???

[audiofreak]

1) well it was so jump on the person who brought it in & a stupid analogy.

I already did, and my analogy is perfectly suitable. You are the only one responsible for what you do.

2) i did understand but the phrase is used to claim one has & other does not so use the correct phrase in the first place.

Nobody even tried to claim that ATI has problems and NVIDIA doesn't in this whole thread.

3) no it does not make it less of an ati problem but that's not the point of my comment...

So you admit that your comment doesn't have a point? It is as I suspected then

I made a true comment about NV having the same issue & that's all, it could of been left to die there but others chose not to leave it there.

What makes your comment !true is that you were not the first to say it.

It was pointless before when others said it (because nobody claimed that NVIDIA doesn't have its own share of issues), and it is equally pointless now.

Btw, I only see you trying to keep the ATI .vs. NVIDIA flame going with your comment. I would really like that flame to die so we can keep discussing the problems we are having.

I have let Steam update my ATI drivers to 10.9. Now Left 4 Dead 2 and Team Fortress 2 crash on exit. May be a problem with a Steam update, but it started after ATI drivers have been updated.

[Final8ty]

I already did,
1)and my analogy is perfectly suitable. You are the only one responsible for what you do.



2)Nobody even tried to claim that ATI has problems and NVIDIA doesn't in this whole thread.



3)So you admit that your comment doesn't have a point? It is as I suspected then



4)What makes your comment !true is that you were not the first to say it.

5)It was pointless before when others said it (because nobody claimed that NVIDIA doesn't have its own share of issues), and it is equally pointless now.

6)Btw, I only see you trying to keep the ATI .vs. NVIDIA flame going with your comment. I would really like that flame to die so we can keep discussing the problems we are having.

I have let Steam update my ATI drivers to 10.9. Now Left 4 Dead 2 and Team Fortress 2 crash on exit. May be a problem with a Steam update, but it started after ATI drivers have been updated.

1) My comment is noway any anything like stealing so again stupid analogy as if i could be arrested for that comment.

2) Well seeing as the trend is to say that ATI drivers are crap & NV drivers are near perfect its understandable that it can be taken that way.

3) No I said it was not the point i was making meaning that i was making another point.

4)And that fact means that others see the need to mention what i have as well.

5) & you could of let that comment pass then instead of what you haver been doing now.

6) I have not mentioned NV drivers since my first post & so its nothing about ATI v NV flame going its about you not getting off your high dictatorship horse about what i can say when there is no trolling & was just a simple truthful comment in a thread which you thought did not belong here & decided to make a meal out of it.

Its totally upto you if you want to continue a debate about one comment or you can put your money where you mouth is & let it die & move on.