Build Log: 100,000 PPD by 1/23/2011

[trn]

Hicks helped me out alot on the electrical as I've said before also . I was thinking a pump like one of the Iwaki aquarium pumps would make a great flow booster:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...%20(1500%20gph)

Behind the CPU blocks and collection res. Even on the most powerful pumps out of that selection seems like it produces less than 15psi so with the placement the CPU blocks should be safe?

[OldChap]

Personally I think the best pump for you would be a heating circulator

For low power use and selectable head and flow curves the Grundfos alpha2 is a good one..... dl the literature and have a look at the graphs http://www.grundfos.com/web/grfosweb...25726B0036BD8D and in webcaps dl the data booklet

Edit: if you needed to take down a loop or two for servicing this range of pumps will auto adjust flow/head of the remaining loops

2nd EDIT I'm assuming that there is a USA version

[onex]

i'm just thinking you'll need a larger scale pump for this kind of project with the reservoir size, the dual radiators and the wide pipes.
if you can find one that is power adjustable such as variable resistor works or the volume in your car radio that should allow you to easily play with the settings,
you can also add another circulation pump to the tubing to aid the others with the load as been offered.

other than that, if the pump gets too strong for the circulation you can widen the pipes or add a pressure drop tank, it probably takes some tweaking to set it to flawlessly go.

just remember two principles,
pressure builds up when the pipes shrunk and loosens when the you add extra circulation for the fluids to go through, kind of same as overclocking.

you should check out what the guys here said too about the blocks PSI lose point, so you won't find your MB sunk under few mm of colored water after few hours or days of work,
be sure to check the system repeatedly to assure the tubes ain't sliding off they're spot or leaking due to pressure in the first few days.

this is basic and you might be aware of it yet it's worthy of repeating, keep it constantly in mind, that's what i would've done,
it might save you some later headache.

very nice project overall!

[artemm]

Wait... so you have a manifold made and a huge garage to work in, why are you messing with a t-line and multiple pumps? Just get a res going and either submerge a single large pump or throw it inline after the res.

Having the manifold after a large pump will allow you to control pressure if you add more lines than you need (just have them lead directly back to the res and open them if you think pressure's too high.) Besides, you can add redundancy this way by adding a second pump in series. I think if one of the pumps dies with the way you have it set up now, the system directly after it will overheat.

It'd go like this:
res>pump>rad>manifold>CPU/GPU>res [multiplied by X number of loops]
res>pump>rad>manifold>res [for pressure relief, if you're worried]

But, who knows, maybe my water cooling logic's off

In any event... kickass build. Wish I had a garage to do awesome stuff like this in

[onex]

just a thought,
if you have a refrigerator in the garage, can you place the radiators within it, drilling side intake and outtake holes while sealing the tubes going through with a dual sided screws with some o-rings or gaskets in the middle?
would it handle the heat?

you can use this ref' to store food or your experimental man-power potions while it's there and at the same time it would cool the system down to circulating 4C.
the hot air coming out of the rad's can be taken out by a small venting structure which is mounted to the radiator/s flows in a narrowing structure to dual 1" or more pipes going out side of the fridge with two side holes as well,
the hot air would naturally elevate upwards and so will take itself out to the garage, it could also heat your place through the winter and save some on the power bill, at the same time you also save the need to add fans.

[shoota]

just a thought,
if you have a refrigerator in the garage, can you place the radiators within it, drilling side intake and outtake holes while sealing the tubes going through with a dual sided screws with some o-rings or gaskets in the middle?
would it handle the heat?

you can use this ref' to store food or your experimental man-power potions while it's there and at the same time it would cool the system down to circulating 4C.
the hot air coming out of the rad's can be taken out by a small venting structure which is mounted to the radiator/s flows in a narrowing structure to dual 1" or more pipes going out side of the fridge with two side holes as well,
the hot air would naturally elevate upwards and so will take itself out to the garage, it could also heat your place through the winter and save some on the power bill, at the same time you also save the need to add fans.

Wow.

[OldChap]

Wow, If you have a refrigerator able to carry that heatload then ...just wow. blast chiller maybe ....refrigerator ? ...rads+food+potions?......No.

....and you would dump the heat from the refrigeration process into the house (and likely need no other)

I like joined up thinking of energy use

[AceNZ]

The problem with using a refrig for cooling is that it roughly doubles your power costs: you pay once to heat up the water via the CPUs, and a second time to cool it down. Passive cooling is much less expensive, provided the difference between ambient and the heated water temp is large enough for it to be effective.

[Sparky]

Also you'll kill the fridge. They aren't designed for a heat load.

[onex]

yeah, yet some of the heat would come out, and it's more kind of if you already have it then why not bench it a little .
and not sure you would kill it, yeah, but it's possible, you can place it in the freezer also, the heat should cream out of it due to the temperature difference.
SS setups works the same as fridges, yet they have much less "room" to handle and so much less heat,
an SS running 1/4 HP compressor can take you down to ~-15 at 120W?
so a fridge would set u up with ~4C with only having to handle the ambient outside and the food.
p.s - the OCZ Cryo-Z is set to off itself at 70C evap.

OT,
a year ago, while first seeing water cooling projects, it was soo crazy like saying "bah, this people are nuts",
that was a year or so after receiving the first computer here when buying a 250$ CPU seemed like a LOT of money!

then after some time, you buy you'r first I7 and a nice classified for it, an SS and an SSD and it's not that much anymore, those 20K that the 920 is doing a day at WCG seems all right, yet you start staring at these 980 6 cores cause you want to jump 6K places a day in the BOINC stats and reach the first 10K users!!

then you go over and see projects such as this one, with all the L5640's, the cascades at the sub-zero area and all the benches going on LN2 and breaking 8Ghz records and many others, and this "hobby" becomes something which just triggers you on and on.
and that's what so fabulous about this site, where such crazy people from all over come and share they're work, bringing up new idea's and nutty setups, and that's what's in fact is pushing creativity and enthusiasm even further and further on!

this is just a small idea though..

[D_A]

The problem with using a refrig for cooling is that it roughly doubles your power costs: you pay once to heat up the water via the CPUs, and a second time to cool it down. Passive cooling is much less expensive, provided the difference between ambient and the heated water temp is large enough for it to be effective.

I've wanted to build one where I exhaust the warm air under the house where it's always cool ... except I never seem to get around to actually DOING anything about it.

[OldChap]

stick a beer chiller under the house ...pipe the 10 deg water up to your rigs and have cool beer on tap...how's that for an integrated solution?

[onex]

I've wanted to build one where I exhaust the warm air under the house where it's always cool ... except I never seem to get around to actually DOING anything about it.

it doesn't seem like a lot of work .

[Otis11]

stick a beer chiller under the house ...pipe the 10 deg water up to your rigs and have cool beer on tap...how's that for an integrated solution?

^^ I like that idea... Best one I've heard yet.

[trn]

Personally I think the best pump for you would be a heating circulator

For low power use and selectable head and flow curves the Grundfos alpha2 is a good one..... dl the literature and have a look at the graphs http://www.grundfos.com/web/grfosweb...25726B0036BD8D and in webcaps dl the data booklet

Edit: if you needed to take down a loop or two for servicing this range of pumps will auto adjust flow/head of the remaining loops

2nd EDIT I'm assuming that there is a USA version

I did some research one these, the Grundfos Alpha2 looks nice and the built in digital control is a nice feature and the wattage is great but the high PSI and Iron flange connectors are making me that this might not be the best pump for the job.

Heres one for sale in the US; http://www.pexsupply.com/Grundfos-59...irculator-Pump And heres a spec sheet for the pump, http://net.grundfos.com/doc/webnet/p...h-Bulletin.pdf.

At 150 PSI i'm afraid everything about my Water Cooling system would explode instantly I'm thinking an aquarium pump with large flange style outlets and inlets and a good amount of head pressure might be a little more kind on my system. I think that Grandfos pump would probably be best if I had ran all my plumbing (except for the computer water lines) with copper piping which would have been nice. It might work if I get a copper fitting that immediately steps up the size of the outlet so I can take it from whatever size the outlet is to a larger diameter tube and drop the PSI and maybe keep some of the head pressure. I'm going to write a second post with some more loop diagrams (this Sayaa is getting out of control )

i'm just thinking you'll need a larger scale pump for this kind of project with the reservoir size, the dual radiators and the wide pipes.
if you can find one that is power adjustable such as variable resistor works or the volume in your car radio that should allow you to easily play with the settings,
you can also add another circulation pump to the tubing to aid the others with the load as been offered.

other than that, if the pump gets too strong for the circulation you can widen the pipes or add a pressure drop tank, it probably takes some tweaking to set it to flawlessly go.

just remember two principles,
pressure builds up when the pipes shrunk and loosens when the you add extra circulation for the fluids to go through, kind of same as overclocking.

you should check out what the guys here said too about the blocks PSI lose point, so you won't find your MB sunk under few mm of colored water after few hours or days of work,
be sure to check the system repeatedly to assure the tubes ain't sliding off they're spot or leaking due to pressure in the first few days.

this is basic and you might be aware of it yet it's worthy of repeating, keep it constantly in mind, that's what i would've done,
it might save you some later headache.

very nice project overall!

All good advise, thanks

Wait... so you have a manifold made and a huge garage to work in, why are you messing with a t-line and multiple pumps? Just get a res going and either submerge a single large pump or throw it inline after the res.

Having the manifold after a large pump will allow you to control pressure if you add more lines than you need (just have them lead directly back to the res and open them if you think pressure's too high.) Besides, you can add redundancy this way by adding a second pump in series. I think if one of the pumps dies with the way you have it set up now, the system directly after it will overheat.

It'd go like this:
res>pump>rad>manifold>CPU/GPU>res [multiplied by X number of loops]
res>pump>rad>manifold>res [for pressure relief, if you're worried]

But, who knows, maybe my water cooling logic's off

In any event... kickass build. Wish I had a garage to do awesome stuff like this in

The T-line in the last diagram I drew was for a fillport at the highest point in my system, somewhere I do need a fillport. In my current system (that sucks ) the individual T lines are for CPU blocks of 3 blocks. So with 6 outlets and inlets I could run a max of 6 x 3 computers or 18 computers with that design. Or that was my thinking at least.

just a thought,
if you have a refrigerator in the garage, can you place the radiators within it, drilling side intake and outtake holes while sealing the tubes going through with a dual sided screws with some o-rings or gaskets in the middle?
would it handle the heat?

you can use this ref' to store food or your experimental man-power potions while it's there and at the same time it would cool the system down to circulating 4C.
the hot air coming out of the rad's can be taken out by a small venting structure which is mounted to the radiator/s flows in a narrowing structure to dual 1" or more pipes going out side of the fridge with two side holes as well,
the hot air would naturally elevate upwards and so will take itself out to the garage, it could also heat your place through the winter and save some on the power bill, at the same time you also save the need to add fans.

That would be a cool () side project for benching or screwing around with something. My design goal of my current system is that the the radiators exhaust the heater air out my garage window and slowly draws fresh air into the garage. If the exhausting of the heat doesn't work then my project is sunk (I should have somehow tested this but I just got the rest of my fans and... well just haven't gotten around to it.) Even with 3 computers running on air dumping heat into the garage the garage overheats and so do the computers. So to really make this work I need to be exhausting the heated air outside the garage or else...


I'm off to go cruise the plumbing section of HD to see if I get any new inspirations, then work on some revised diagrams later tonight

[OldChap]

I just saw the prices for you guys...1st time I ever saw it being twice as much over there. lord knows what a stainless one costs

The 150psi figure is not the pressure it develops....rather the max system pressure it would withstand...max head pressure is 19ft so <2 atm

[trn]

Well I never made it out of the garage tonight Decided to start ripping apart my setup and try a rebuild. While I don't want to say my flow issues are 'solved' I think its fair to say 'drastically improved.'

I moved one of my reservoirs to reduce the pressure. Before all the weight of the water in the top res (~2 gallons) was pushing down on my pumps, plus the height to pump up 3'. Now the weight of the water is balanced in each reservoir reducing pressure on the pumps (in theory.) I'm feeling better about this, setting up a sub-loop or two this weekend should give me an idea if I need more pumping power or not.



These have been sitting on my kitchen table, taunting me to get them running every time I walk by... bastards! (excuse the TIM smeared all over one dirty dirty chip.)


CPU blocks showed up today; that was the last component I needed (besides fixing flow rate and setting up all the fans to work.)


I'll work on the fans and pump mounting in hopes of getting a loop test run this weekend.

[Firechicken]

trn, as a trade mechanic, when I seen those car rads inside a thread for wgc, inside a computer forum......I thought damn if only you were a woman. Seriously though seeing those 2 rads ready to go into your cooling project all I could think was how awsome is this going to be. I started getting Ideas of how I might incorporate other automotive stuff in there to make it more manly....maby a cummins block for the res...eh stevil? LOL.

Awsome project, awsome gear, awsome thread, I am wtfbbq'd to death mate, good job wow!


Edit: those pipeing, manifolds and pump systems you got there is befitting a grow op....not that i'd know anything about that lol. I have learned a ton from this thread, thanks!

[trn]

trn, as a trade mechanic, when I seen those car rads inside a thread for wgc, inside a computer forum......I thought damn if only you were a woman...

I could use a turbo-diesel powered water pump

Edit: those pipeing, manifolds and pump systems you got there is befitting a grow op....not that i'd know anything about that lol. I have learned a ton from this thread, thanks!

And my energy usage will be befiting a grow opp also; and I would know something about that But that was a looong time ago... That has to be about the only more energy intensive 'project' I can think of; a couple of 1000W bulbs + fans and water gear could pile up the energy usage really quickly... and if someone looks in my side window right now they see all these pumps and tubing going everywhere... I plan to get a privacy curtain up over the top half of the window to obscure the pump + tube view. And also by the time I get 10+ GB Mobo's and a few PSU's with blue lights all over them my garage is going to be glowing like the mothership!

[Firechicken]

I could use a turbo-diesel powered water pump




And my energy usage will be befiting a grow opp also; and I would know something about that But that was a looong time ago... That has to be about the only more energy intensive 'project' I can think of; a couple of 1000W bulbs + fans and water gear could pile up the energy usage really quickly... and if someone looks in my side window right now they see all these pumps and tubing going everywhere... I plan to get a privacy curtain up over the top half of the window to obscure the pump + tube view. And also by the time I get 10+ GB Mobo's and a few PSU's with blue lights all over them my garage is going to be glowing like the mothership!

I agree with you on the curtain, beacuse you could easily give someone the wrong idea if they see all that gear that looks like grow gear. It would sure suck to have your door kicked down and have to fix it even if your not doing anything wrong. Especially if you live in a "Good ol Boy" state or area. This thread is so good I'm reading it again, I am thinking about using your manifold for my 3 machines but on a much smaller scale, I have a massive Audi electric water pump capable of cooling a turbo engine without the main pump working, and a rad, I'll just need to get a small fan like yours as the stock Audi one is like a jet taking off, it would break your arm if you got it caught in there.

Cheers.

Oh BTW, You wouldn't theoretically be talking about one of these now would you?

[trn]

I agree with you on the curtain, beacuse you could easily give someone the wrong idea if they see all that gear that looks like grow gear. It would sure suck to have your door kicked down and have to fix it even if your not doing anything wrong. Especially if you live in a "Good ol Boy" state or area. This thread is so good I'm reading it again, I am thinking about using your manifold for my 3 machines but on a much smaller scale, I have a massive Audi electric water pump capable of cooling a turbo engine without the main pump working, and a rad, I'll just need to get a small fan like yours as the stock Audi one is like a jet taking off, it would break your arm if you got it caught in there.

Cheers.

Oh BTW, You wouldn't theoretically be talking about one of these now would you?

Nor would I want anyone to know I have 10+ computers in my garage. The computers are high value, I live in a save area but you never know... One of my neighbors commented that it looked like I was building my own distillery.

If your going to build a manifold like reservoir don't use 4" diameter PVC piping as the main body The manifold/reservoir became very huge very quickly. Just the reservoirs hold ~2 gallons each plus an extra two gallons of water in the rads, that ends up becoming a lot of water and very heavy.

That stock Audi fan might be a very good option if its undervolted. Stock should be 12V, if you try running that Audi fan at 6V - 8V you might get really good results. Fallwind runs Car Rad fans undervolted in his setup. I have cheesy ebay aftermarket radiator fans but I get the feeling stock fans undervolted would be better quality and a better option.

That bulb will light your house (with a ballast of course.)

[Sparky]

Power cords should go out by Saturday... might be able to get them out this afternoon. Not sure.

[Tom128]

I don't know if you ever measured the power usage of your box fan but I measured mine the other day. Surprisingly (to me) high power usage for mine. It has 3 speeds, on speed 1 (low) it was 74W. Speed 2 = 86W. Speed 3 = 106W.

[charlie]

I love a good build thread just like anyone...

But to get 100k per day, can't you just have 3-4 aircooled boxes pluggd into the wall? Am I missing something? Are you shooting for 100k WCG points/day or some other point system??

[Movieman]

I love a good build thread just like anyone...

But to get 100k per day, can't you just have 3-4 aircooled boxes pluggd into the wall? Am I missing something? Are you shooting for 100k WCG points/day or some other point system??

He's talking 100,000BOINC PPD..equals 700,000 WCG PPD