Pure-Sil Biocidal coolant

[iandh]

If you have primochill pro lrt this is meaningless.

K.

I have serious respect for your honesty in bringing this product forth which is a heck of a lot more then I can say for other companies making outrageous claims. This is a neat product if you want to save yourself some time and have the insurance of clean water being used. Keep up the good work!

I don't sell snake oil, I just sell plain old distilled water with a twist.

[Waterlogged]

I don't sell snake oil, I just sell plain old distilled water with a twist.

. . .but, but I heard snake oil drops temps by 12°C. . .I want some of that.

[serialk11r]

Question: How do you "silver treat" it? Do you add soluble silver compound with a small amount of colloidal silver?

[iandh]

Question: How do you "silver treat" it? Do you add soluble silver compound with a small amount of colloidal silver?

It's done using electrolysis, a constant current DC power source with a magnetic stirrer and a third action to increase quality/stability.

[serialk11r]

Oh okay so you end up with silver hydroxide/oxide in solution I take it (H+ is reduced, Ag2O forms from side reactions). Wow then 7.3ppm is a pretty high concentration, considering the solubility of silver oxide (well depending on what you call 7.3ppm, by volume, mass, particles)

I just gotta say I like this product, since it utilizes silver really effectively whereas kill coils leave way too much silver metal which is useless.

[iandh]

Oh okay so you end up with silver hydroxide/oxide in solution I take it (H+ is reduced, Ag2O forms from side reactions). Wow then 7.3ppm is a pretty high concentration, considering the solubility of silver oxide (well depending on what you call 7.3ppm, by volume, mass, particles)

I just gotta say I like this product, since it utilizes silver really effectively whereas kill coils leave way too much silver metal which is useless.

Basically it is saturated as heavily as possible without the silver agglomerating and dropping out of solution. I wanted to give the customer the best bang for their buck... being that it is labor intensive to make, I have to price it higher than I'd like, so I figured I'd at least make it as strong as possible.

I really skirt the edge too, about 5% of what I make ends up being throwaway because it crossed over the edge of being too strong, and started to discolor (showing the agglomeration through refraction).

[marxviper]

If you have primochill pro lrt this is meaningless.

Why do you say it's meaningless? Please explain more as I'm planning to get one of these.

What about with distill water?

[iandh]

Why do you say it's meaningless? Please explain more as I'm planning to get one of these.

What about with distill water?

That tubing has built in biocide... so basically he's saying my product is useless because everyone should buy that particular tubing.

Don't get me wrong, it's excellent tubing, but there are other good brands of tubing on the market that don't have biocidal properties.

Not to mention which, they say "antimicrobial", but I don't know exactly what that means, or what the tubing kills... I don't even know what chemical they used to give it that property. I do know that silver solution kills EVERYTHING (not to say that pro lrt doesn't)

[Waterlogged]

That tubing has built in biocide... so basically he's saying my product is useless because everyone should buy that particular tubing.

Don't get me wrong, it's excellent tubing, but there are other good brands of tubing on the market that don't have biocidal properties.

Not to mention which, they say "antimicrobial", but I don't know exactly what that means, or what the tubing kills... I don't even know what chemical they used to give it that property. I do know that silver solution kills EVERYTHING (not to say that pro lrt doesn't)

Not to mention that we have no idea exactly how long the "Anti-Microbial" will last.

[zeropluszero]

Ian, is it possible that you could use say 1 bottle of Pure Sil, and another of regular distilled water?
i'd estimate my loops to use arounnd 2 litres, and while i'd love some Pure Sil, it's too cost prohibitive to buy 2 bottles, and have them shipped from the US to Australia.

[serialk11r]

Holy crap 17 bucks? I guess it's hard to do better, since silver salts are really expensive, and doing it with silver electrodes is going to be time intensive like you said.

From a chemistry perspective, you could maybe try to reduce the cost by instead by creating a diluted silver nitrate solution, at about the same concentration of silver ions. If 7.3ppm means 7.3 parts Ag+ per 1000000 parts water by mass or something, then that would be about 7.3g/170g/mol AgNO3 in 10^6g/18g/mol water which is about 7.7x10^-7M. So you could use about a drop (something on the order of 10^-4 or -5 L) 0.01M solution in a liter, should yield about the same concentration. I imagine it would be a lot less time intensive, and since nitrate is a more soluble anion than oxide or hydroxide, there should be less issues with precipitation. At those concentrations you would have to really have a lot of impurities to precipitate a significant amount of silver. Also it would be just as safe since the silver is what's poisonous. More concentrated silver nitrate solutions would probably need some kind of license to ship.

Basically this is what I was trying to get at in the old post a month ago, the killcoils have all this neutral silver metal sitting there doing nothing, so some silver nitrate is going to be a lot more effective. But then it's not as safe, so what I described above would be a pretty good way to implement it.

EDIT: My bad, if it's only silver that concentration should be about 2 times what I wrote.

[iandh]

Holy crap 17 bucks? I guess it's hard to do better, since silver salts are really expensive, and doing it with silver electrodes is going to be time intensive like you said.

From a chemistry perspective, you could maybe try to reduce the cost by instead by creating a diluted silver nitrate solution, at about the same concentration of silver ions. If 7.3ppm means 7.3 parts Ag+ per 1000000 parts water by mass or something, then that would be about 7.3g/170g/mol AgNO3 in 10^6g/18g/mol water which is about 7.7x10^-7M. So you could use about a drop (something on the order of 10^-4 or -5 L) 0.01M solution in a liter, should yield about the same concentration. I imagine it would be a lot less time intensive, and since nitrate is a more soluble anion than oxide or hydroxide, there should be less issues with precipitation. At those concentrations you would have to really have a lot of impurities to precipitate a significant amount of silver. Also it would be just as safe since the silver is what's poisonous. More concentrated silver nitrate solutions would probably need some kind of license to ship.

Basically this is what I was trying to get at in the old post a month ago, the killcoils have all this neutral silver metal sitting there doing nothing, so some silver nitrate is going to be a lot more effective. But then it's not as safe, so what I described above would be a pretty good way to implement it.

EDIT: My bad, if it's only silver that concentration should be about 2 times what I wrote.

Other manufacturers charge $10 a bottle for plain distilled water... this takes two hours per bottle to make.

True, but use of a silver ingot in a closed container is a method tried and proven over thousands of years... and it seems to work just as well today. There may be unreleased potential, and it may not be very efficient/effective, but the important thing is that it is more than effective enough for the intended use.

I've sold something like 1000 killcoils, and haven't heard a single account of growth. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Not to mention which, a killcoil is small, cheap, easy to ship, and will last a lifetime.


This coolant is an alternative more for those that don't have access to quality water, or just want a guarantee of what they're getting.

[serialk11r]

Effective mainly meant cost effective, since instead of using all that silver, you use a tiny fraction of what you would get after dunking the same silver piece into nitric acid and diluting. Just suggesting a more cost effective way to produce your products

[ohms]

Sell more to Petra! He's out of stock and I need some

[Tetrafluorometh]

UK needs stock of this!!!

[Brodholm]

UK needs stock of this!!!

Exactly! Sell some to UK stores!

You should contact Tom @ chilledpc.co.uk I always buy from them and they are great!

I got a question though. Should you clean your loop with "ordinary" distilled water fist. Maybe run the pump for a few minutes and then drain it and fill it up with your water?

[Martinm210]

I like the biocide piece, but I don't understand what all the fuss is over electrical conductivity? I understand it's one way to measure purity, but what's in there causing the high reading? Is it something that is detrimental to the thermal performance in any way?

Has anyone measured thermal conductivity after being in the loop for a week straight, one month? Can you measure the difference between the purest water and your worst grocery store brand?

From what I understand there are only two properties that matter regarding thermal performance:

Volumetric Heat Capacity - Is the measurement of storage ability
Thermal Conductivity - Is the measurement of transferring heat

How does electrical conductivity relate to thermal performance, and why is it important or even measured?

Just curious why all the fuss on electrical conductivity...I plan to keep buying my horrid grocery store brand until someone convinces me otherwise..

[asura]

How does electrical conductivity relate to thermal performance, and why is it important or even measured?

I cant remember it, but I'm sure there's a name for a relationship between thermal and electrical conductivity, silver is the top thermal and electrical conducter (that is a single metal) with copper comeing a close second on both counts, gold is also way up there, and things that are thermaly insulating (such as mica, as used to be used in oven/kiln windows) are also usualy electraly insulating (such as mica, which used to be used in capacitors) there's definatly something there... A quick wiki surf and here it is The Widermann-Franz Law and it's only suposed to work with metals, so my mica example is a happy coincidance that dosn't apply to the rules (Doh of corse diamond is thermaly hugely conductive and electrally insulative, why didn't my brain remember that) So it's metals only that that law applys to, but what about metals in solution?

[Biffa]

I thought electrical conductivity mattered so you are less likely to zap your gear if you get a leak

[Utnorris]

Actually, I am curious Iandh if you put so much silver into the solution doesn't that make the fluid conductive so if it leaks onto your board you could cause a short to happen?

[Erklat]

What's the fuss with them conductivity all the time? When leak occurs you're probably screwed either way.

My poor chemistry and physics knowledge says that when coolant is in contact with any type of metal for prolonged period of
time, like in a loop, it will get conductive due to the ion transfer. I might be wrong though.

[skinnee]

What's the fuss with them conductivity all the time? When leak occurs you're probably screwed either way.

My poor chemistry and physics knowledge says that when coolant is in contact with any type of metal for prolonged period of
time, like in a loop, it will get conductive due to the ion transfer. I might be wrong though.

I am under the same impression, and thus the reason I scrapped conductivity tests from the Coolant testing I am wrapping up.

[Erklat]

I am under the same impression, and thus the reason I scrapped conductivity tests from the Coolant testing I am wrapping up.

Thanks, feels better when someone of your XS stature backs you up when
making bold statements

[Utnorris]

I don't disagree that over time all water based fluids will become conductive, my question is whether or not his fluid starts off that way. I haven't had a leak occur after I have leak tested and therefore I am concerned with the conductivity during the initial install phase, not 6 months down the road.

[skinnee]

Thanks, feels better when someone of your XS stature backs you up when
making bold statements

We could both be wrong, so I wouldn't make that statement.