Then you should also see this:Originally Posted by xdan
I still don't buy what Charlie says or others fans off......
This guy totally proved that is against Nvidia.
See this also...
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=6381
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=6391
That gives a spreader size of ~45.7mm * 35mm and a die size of 364mm˛. Seems like Charlie was right after all.
taking into account Poisson distribution gf104 has higher yields than cypress. i worked out the math, gf104 has 9% higher yields not considering parametric yield or redundancy.
And why does Nvidia only sell GF104 with disabled parts?
So no, GF104 yields aren't as good as Cypress.
you have made a lot of assumptions so no, you dont know that.
I think nvidia is trying to get rid of gtx470 stock before introducing a full fledged gf104. Also gf104 has less transistors per mm2, that could aid in yields in comparison with cypress, despite the higher size. On the other hand amd has been producing cypresses for a year now so....
What are your initial numbers? You must have had something to feed into the equation.
E7200 @ 3.4 ; 7870 GHz 2 GB
Intel's atom is a terrible chip.
The only assumption I see here is your idea that you can compare yields of two very differently built chips using such a simple formula.
You just have to see what they did with GF100.
Yields sucked, so they released a cutted down version to improve yields.
Same story with GF104.
Well ... where is the confirmation ? I don't see any measurement on these picturesNH - Early information has claimed a surface area of 366mm^2 with GF104, which is confirmed by these pictures.
Top of the page:Well ... where is the confirmation ? I don't see any measurement on these pictures
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=26
I have seen this picture informal but that's not a part of NH's newz
You're right it's not a part of the NH news article but it is the truth nevertheless.Whether they just guessed it or they in fact used the wrong image(?) in the article is debatable.
What if the measurement of PCIE connector is wrong and it is 83mm, oops than may be the die size is 334...?Then you should also see this:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=6391
Quote:
The PCIe connector seems to be ~85mm in size , only seems to be ???: http://www.interfacebus.com/PCIe_16x_Connector.gif Thean may all you measure only seems to be...and it's otherwise.
That gives a spreader size of ~45.7mm * 35mm and a die size of 364mm˛. Seems like Charlie was right after all.
And from where and how are these numbers calculated....A guy just dropp this 45.7.....blah...?
In two weeks i'll have my GTX 460 and i'll measure the heatspreader.
And i don't know with that angles but and limitation but the die is deeper inside.
Last edited by xdan; 08-04-2010 at 08:53 AM.
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die area, transistors/mm^2, and defect density(units in defects/cm^2). defect density is manufacturing process dependent so it's the same for both. it is a top secret number but it can be estimated based on it's trend.
http://www.icknowledge.com/trends/defects.pdf
here is some background info on yield models. i used the poisson model with more terms for higher accuracy.
http://www.siliconfareast.com/test-yield-models.htm
you need to look harder. i clearly said in my post that i disregarded parametric yield and redundancy techniques. these i dont know and i could only give you a guess. really my point is that having a larger die does not necessarily mean lower yields.
If that's the most up to date data you have available, I would find it extremely precarious to extrapolate defect density trends considering the smallest size they've got is 250 nm. Furthermore, as we see with the GF100, just because it's fabricated on a smaller node it doesn't mean it takes advantage of the defect density. Or maybe it does, since it's such a large chip ... who knows.
E7200 @ 3.4 ; 7870 GHz 2 GB
Intel's atom is a terrible chip.
Fail...What if the measurement of PCIE connector is wrong and it is 83mm, oops than may be the die size is 334...?
And from where and how are these numbers calculated....A guy just dropp this 45.7.....blah...?
In two weeks i'll have my GTX 460 and i'll measure the heatspreader.
The PCIE connector is an industry standard.
Just think about what you said for a second.
They were counting the pixels, taking into account the angle, figuring out the ratios and using industry standard components, aka pcie connector, to figure out the die size.
These B3D guys have been doing it for years.
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=8452
that comes out to ~.015 defects/cm^2. it should be even lower now.Although TSMC recently said the defect density of its 40nm technology has already dropped from 0.3-0.4 per square inch to 0.1-0.3, the sources pointed out that the improvement in overall yield still needs more time before catching up with market demand.
Seriously who let you in here?What if the measurement of PCIE connector is wrong and it is 83mm, oops than may be the die size is 334...?
why dont you measure a pci-e connector on your card and put those numbers up ... they are all the same anyway
WILL CUDDLE FOR FOOD
I didn't said these not so convincing words...
, judge that guy.....The PCIe connector seems to be ~85mm in size
I mean when you're sure about something and you can guarantee that thing you say "is" not "seems to be"'
So cut it off
And look better at the picture, it's about the cut angle in the PCIE conector....the measurement is after the angle cut.
Last edited by xdan; 08-05-2010 at 02:14 AM.
i5 2500K@ 4.5Ghz
Asrock P67 PRO3
P55 PRO & i5 750
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=966385
239 BCKL validation on cold air
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=966536
Almost 5hgz , air.
http://translate.google.ca/translate...&sl=auto&tl=en
NO way! The card lives!
wonder how much temps r lowered hehe
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Because it is ~85mm, he hand measured it. Not like he has special equipment to measure to the exact length.I didn't said these not so convincing words...
, judge that guy.....
I mean when you're sure about something and you can guarantee that thing you say "is" not "seems to be"'
So cut it off
And look better at the picture, it's about the cut angle in the PCIE conector....the measurement is after the angle cut.
Yes, the measurement is after the angle cut, because he is showing that it is a straight line across, not at an angle...
Comeon.
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
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