Andre Yang - Lifetime Ban

[M.Beier]

Read through the thread, people talk of him as if he had zero skill and everything was smoke and mirrors behind the scenes

We'll never know what really went down, perhaps he got pissed off with the way overclocking was going and did something ridiculous to get himself banned and make a statement? He had plenty of skill and it seems unlikely that he didn't know the way that the AM3 scoring worked. I'd like to believe that that was purposefully editted incorrectly (if not some completely random bug caused by the system being unstable or something along those lines).

OPB cheated all along, not just with the AM3.... Jebus...

He just has so many minions.... I once had a debate with him, logged on OCX server.... Oh yea, the conclusion, what he DENIED was cheat here at XS became "someone else set me up and posted a fake results in my name" later... His unrealistic A64 superpi time....
Nah, OPB is corrupted to the bone, he should stick with the p0rn he has stored on his server, and leave the rest of us alone...

[v0dka]

he should stick with the p0rn he has stored on his server, and leave the rest of us alone...

The real question is, how do YOU know about the pron on his server?

[Monstru]

OPB cheated all along, not just with the AM3.... Jebus...

You mean OPB, the guys who didn't want to share settings? Hmm, where have I heard that again recently?

[M.Beier]

The real question is, how do YOU know about the pron on his server?

Photo upload folder wasnt protected untill I informed, so there was a screenshot

You mean OPB, the guys who didn't want to share settings? Hmm, where have I heard that again recently?

Alot of people dont want to share settings, quite common.... BUT, faking results and not sharring settings are to be seperated.... It is also cheating turning down frequency after a superpi run.. Which was the obvious case for that score..
But it was just one of many examples with OPB... He is.... Dirty...

[Xoulz]

Knowing more isn't a sin.. if he shared secrets, is that any different? What exactly did Andre give them..? If so.. is information illegal in competitions? If you know massaging the PSU's privates will result in a higher score... is that cheating, or you allowed to do it? Are rules too narrow, because OC only means touching one thing in your computer.. when you found a way to fondle more...?

I don't understand that aspect of this line drawn in the sand.. Or how each didn't just receive the same infraction. I guess I don't understand the role Andre played.

[ex2cib]

seriously? some of you are getting mad at vapor over this?

He said he stated to skinnee what he thought on the matter. After that, his part is done. It's not his part to police skinnee from that point on, and constantly monitor him for the next 2 weeks to make sure he doesn't post the score.

It's like a parent telling their kid to not to do something, right before the parent has to go to work in the morning. Once the parent is gone, the kid then has a choice, i can listen to my parent, or i can do what i want to do. You can only make someone responsible for so much.

Vapor has helped so many people here, me included, just kills me for some people to be throwing him in the "cheater" category as well.

[demonkevy666]

knowledge is power

How ever

Power leads to corruption.

[SoulsCollective]

[[XC] Oj101]

Photo upload folder wasnt protected untill I informed, so there was a screenshot

Alot of people dont want to share settings, quite common.... BUT, faking results and not sharring settings are to be seperated.... It is also cheating turning down frequency after a superpi run.. Which was the obvious case for that score..
But it was just one of many examples with OPB... He is.... Dirty...

That superpi is new to me, what was his frequency and time?

[Utnorris]

seriously? some of you are getting mad at vapor over this?

He said he stated to skinnee what he thought on the matter. After that, his part is done. It's not his part to police skinnee from that point on, and constantly monitor him for the next 2 weeks to make sure he doesn't post the score.

It's like a parent telling their kid to not to do something, right before the parent has to go to work in the morning. Once the parent is gone, the kid then has a choice, i can listen to my parent, or i can do what i want to do. You can only make someone responsible for so much.

Vapor has helped so many people here, me included, just kills me for some people to be throwing him in the "cheater" category as well.

What upsets me is the double standard as I stated in my earlier post. If we are going to condemn one individual for their knowledge and support of a group that they know to be wrong, then why would we accept Vapor doing the same thing. I have nothing against Vapor, but he, by his own post, knew what was going on and chose to turn a blind eye to it. He didn't say that he threatened to report it if they didn't come clean, he stated it was Skinnee's decision and his alone. Being a site mod means he is held to a higher standard, just like we hold the police to a higher standard. We expect their decisions to be fair, honest and beyond reproach. Is that a lot to ask for? Maybe, but that is what is suppose to separate this site from others that we have condemned in the past and while this may seem unfair, it was this sites admins and leaders that decided that a long time ago that this was the standard we would live by. Again, this incident has far more repercussions than just these individuals from how we look at the leader board on HWBOT to how this site is viewed. I am disappointed in the decisions of the parties involved as I had so much respect for all them and now I am questioning that.

[biohead]

That superpi is new to me, what was his frequency and time?

from memory 8.900 with a 5.5 C2D?

[SKYMTL]

this question really scares me, because the implications are much bigger and would involve more people and more events. For there to be a group that knows where to get the "good stuff" implies a underground that passes info and results for the gain of the people "in the know" which would make this much more then this one incident...

Exterminators usually say if you catch one rat, there's usually many more you haven't yet caught. I think the more improtant question here is exactly how many people have been doing this.

There's also absolutely no way to guarantee Andre won't continue selling out his own results.

[Gautam]

What upsets me is the double standard as I stated in my earlier post. If we are going to condemn one individual for their knowledge and support of a group that they know to be wrong, then why would we accept Vapor doing the same thing. I have nothing against Vapor, but he, by his own post, knew what was going on and chose to turn a blind eye to it. He didn't say that he threatened to report it if they didn't come clean, he stated it was Skinnee's decision and his alone. Being a site mod means he is held to a higher standard, just like we hold the police to a higher standard. We expect their decisions to be fair, honest and beyond reproach. Is that a lot to ask for? Maybe, but that is what is suppose to separate this site from others that we have condemned in the past and while this may seem unfair, it was this sites admins and leaders that decided that a long time ago that this was the standard we would live by. Again, this incident has far more repercussions than just these individuals from how we look at the leader board on HWBOT to how this site is viewed. I am disappointed in the decisions of the parties involved as I had so much respect for all them and now I am questioning that.

He was in a position I wouldn't wish on anyone. Lots of Mother Theresas and Gandhis in here, wonder what they'd have done.

(Not that that makes it ok)

[death metal]

Good job fugger.

[K404]

Vapor was with Charles at the GOOC 2009 finals wasn't he?

Thats twice he's looked the other way for a competition.

[M.Beier]

That superpi is new to me, what was his frequency and time?

I'll PM you the details, have to dig it up, on an old laptop... But 3200+ Winchester, less then 2800mhz, ~1 sec difference in SPI 1M, dispite 24x mhz ram as far as I recall, I for one ran with 27x mhz ram.... Same timings, all double-sided, dual channel (4way).

*but really doesnt matter now, OPB retired from competitive benchmarking, and that regained him alot of respect, as far as I know, he is still active at OCX.
But it can not be questioned if he cheated, it was multiple times.

[Harshal]

He was in a position I wouldn't wish on anyone. Lots of Mother Theresas and Gandhis in here, wonder what they'd have done.

(Not that that makes it ok)

Gautam, I know what you mean.

[bassplayer]

I'd rather prevent my good friend from making the mistake in the first place..

What did you want him to do, tackle Skinnee?

The legal term you allude to is "accessory before the fact."



How accessory before the fact is defined:

An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or will be committed. A person with such knowledge may become an accessory by helping or encouraging the criminal in some way, or simply by failing to report the crime to proper authority. The assistance to the criminal may be of any type, including emotional or financial assistance as well as physical assistance or concealment.



To be convicted of an accessory charge, the accused must generally be proved to have had actual knowledge that a crime was going to be, or had been, committed. Furthermore, there must be proof that the accessory knew that his or her action, or inaction, was helping the criminals commit the crime, or evade detection, or escape.

First of all, this is not a crime. Morally wrong to some/most (morals aren't absolute), definitely, but the law (which is different in locations outside the US, mind you) has no place in this argument.

With that said, the law you quoted mentions nothing about a possibility. Vapor said he went to sleep before a decision was made. Therefore he did not know that the "crime" would be committed, just that it might be. This is the same thing to some, but different when trying to "convict" based on technicalities.

seriously? some of you are getting mad at vapor over this?

He said he stated to skinnee what he thought on the matter. After that, his part is done. It's not his part to police skinnee from that point on, and constantly monitor him for the next 2 weeks to make sure he doesn't post the score.

It's like a parent telling their kid to not to do something, right before the parent has to go to work in the morning. Once the parent is gone, the kid then has a choice, i can listen to my parent, or i can do what i want to do. You can only make someone responsible for so much.

Vapor has helped so many people here, me included, just kills me for some people to be throwing him in the "cheater" category as well.

I agree 100%. He made his position clear and then awaited to see what would happen. While I have no idea to what degree he made his thoughts known, I believe in doing so he excuses himself from punishment.

If my friend was considering cheating on an exam, I would discourage him greatly. If he decides to do it, I'm not going to turn him in. That's not up to me; it's not my mistake to make.

[OhNoes!]

Vapor was at the proverbial "wrong place, at the wrong time." By his own words, he did what he could to dissuade his friend, went to bed, and woke up to bedlam. The guy did what he could under the circumstance.

All the "accessory" to wrong-doing analogies makes me sick. When someone mentioned speeding and how many of us break the law on a daily basis (an immoral act, by the way), people were quick to deny any relationship between that and the current matter. Those same people are now turning around and talking about accesory this and accesory that - breaking the law is breaking the law. Vapor didn't have to report Skinnee because the had already hit the fan when he woke up in the morning.

[Origin_Unknown]

You are right.... Vapor has no morale, however this time he was not actively cheating, GOOC is another matter

you mean morals?

[NightCrawler™]

What did you want him to do, tackle Skinnee?

Smash his head in... LOL

No seriously.. I'd talk to the guy and explain the consequences.. and if it's worth it to lose it all if it backfires.. it's not like they're the OC club just around the corner, they're all high profile players of the game..
Basically if Vapor really wanted to he could have stopped him..

I've been in a position where it took a real good friend for me to make the right decision and I thank her for that every single day..

[M.Beier]

you mean morals?

Correct, and very useful post
Its moral / morale in my native language for your information.

[Bobsama]

This is really shameful. Not only have the two of you squandered a great deal of trust given you by enthusiasts around the world, but you've also shown yourself to be a lousy friend. A friend would 1) have tried to stop another friend from doing something like this 2) not thrown his friend under the bus as soon as things turned ugly.

At the very least the both of you should take the heat together, and maybe showing an inkling of remorse might help. Your cavalier attitude about the whole thing really doesn't make it look like it's your first time.

I realize that I'm pretty new around here and might be accused of having an agenda, but I am not at all pleased about this. I have bought quite a bit of stuff based on the reviews posted by you and skinnee on his site. Most of it turned out being decent stuff, but to find out that I'm spending money based on recommendations coming from two cheaters doesn't make me very happy.

Adults are responsible for their own actions. I think Vapor was in the "wrong place" at the "wrong time". He gave his opinion and left it at that. Anyone else around him made their own decisions and made their own mistakes. At the end of the day, the guys caught with Andre's scores only have themselves to blame.

As a general rule of thumb, you don't try to police the actions of friends.

[Splave]

Couple questions,
What is stopping andre from sending results while he is banned?
What happens when companies realize how easy it is to cheat?

[cdolphin]

I hope they get a second chance, perhaps with some stipulations and further checking of all of their submissions. The point is to learn from your mistakes, not to never have that chance.