Andre Yang - Lifetime Ban

[SamHughe]

Don't wanna sound like I'm defending him but, shouldn't Andre be given a chance to explain himself? Did anybody talk to him about this? Is he forward about what he did or is he in denial?

[charlie]

what's next? Futuremark engineers giving out secret hacks to their friends? OC'ing as a hobby relies on the trust that ALL are on a level playing field.

You know something? Sometimes the better OC'er doesn't win. Sometimes it's dumb luck and the guy with the golden CPU wins. That's how it SHOULD be.

level.

playing.

field.

[Movieman]

It's a toffee hammer for smashing toffee

I see your point MM but wouldn't Andre of been banned straight off the bat if he had been caught outright like this the first time?

Just because he did it better doesn't mean the others didn't have the same intentions and wont continue to do so.

Picture this scenario:
Over the course of a few years a certain individual's name comes up with different allegations.. Never any hard proof but it smells.
Then you get this come up and your the one making the decision on what to do and have that information on all those other "incidents"
Now you have the pattern and all the other times make sense to you.
I'm not saying this is what happenned but it makes sense to me.

[El Gappo]

@el gappo

NCspecv81 16th post in your thread. Was that photoshopped? or TheGoat_Eater did message him that?

I believe spec messaged that to him.

[zsamz_]

I'm not, andre has been cheating the system for as long as i have been here.
i warned people a long time ago on some of his asus board overclocks he was subcooling the northbridge to achieve such insane clocks and he denied it but later came out and said he did. i wasnt the accuser i just heard wind of it and passed it on.

there have been MULTIPLE other documented cases of him blatantly cheating and lieing about it.

once a liar and a cheat always a liar and a cheater


and am speechless that any of you who have been around here long enough are in shock,,, this is a long time coming and about damn time.

good riddance, all he did was inflate hardware sales for the manufacturer for his own personal gain.

now its time we start looking at the people he has been working for and start questioning their results and methods.

and YES the guys involved are just as dirty and scandalous as Andre and they deserve the same fate he does.. period.

+1
the game been gettin real dirty for the past 2 years
people bendin over for a few $ free hw or a job

[biohead]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

completely agree with you there charlie. "professional" overclocking ruins it for everyone else. LOL UP NEXT QUAD-SLI GTX480 with DDR3-9000 SRY4ENGRISH!!!

[FatAlbert]

Don't wanna sound like I'm defending him but, shouldn't Andre be given a chance to explain himself? Did anybody talk to him about this? Is he forward about what he did or is he in denial?

Probably if Andre want to explain himself, imo, he probably get a chance or he could send a message to one of his friend here who could put it here. Simply. If he don't want, imo again, it's not our business.

[brolloks]

Maybe they should not have banned them immediately and put "I'm a Cheater" across their avatar and then ban them a few days later.

[PaganII]

Maybe they should not have banned them immediately and put "Beware Cheater" across their avatar and then ban them a few days later.

Scarlet Letter? (it is an old book/ movie)
New color for screen name?

I haven't been around long enough to know these guys but their offense may lead to the kind of stuff Intel was guilty of. Bad for the industry.

[zanzabar]

Scarlet Letter? (it is an old book/ movie)
New color for screen name?

I haven't been around long enough to know these guys but their offense may lead to the kind of stuff Intel was guilty of. Bad for the industry.

i dont know about intel only, evga gives out a bunch of 480gtx to their preferred benchers/employees who bench giving them a $2500+ advantage from having all good clocking cards, intel dose the ES chips and unlocked dual qpi xeons for the sr2, gigabyte gave out ES 58xx for their competion to their benchers that clocked way better than their retail. this has all been going on with people benching non retail stuff and thats kinda like cheating. but sharing scores is soemthing that may not be bad, i know that there are rules and if u just give some1 a score to post thats wrong but when u have people combining hardware in a set of bench runs i would find it hard to only give 1 person on a team credit, especially if they were all different runs. i dont think that it happened like that but i would like to hear what went on.

what happened to benchzoner was he in this also

[Harshal]

Rather unfortunate for OC community.

Charles and others
That is a big step in restoring OC pride

[Utnorris]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

This is what has made overclocking not so fun anymore. It sucks working 4-5 hours straight with gear you had to buy, trade for, beg or borrow and find out you are at a huge disadvantage because you don't get a board before it's released or a tray full of chips to sift through for the best one. Average Joe can run down and by the latest GPU, spend hours upon hours tweaking with no hope of getting into the top 10 much less the number one spot because he/she didn't have any connections and deep pockets to get the right gear. Personally, I think you should have to post a receipt from a retailer when you submit a score showing the gear wasn't given to you unless it was a manufacture sponsored overclocking competition where everyone gets the same gear. It's like Nascar, everyone gets the same cars and can tweak them within the rules, but it comes down to the skill of the individual on who wins the race. Overclocking competitions have been corrupted by greed and have actually done more damage than good because of the sponsorships by Corporate (name your country) trying to get people to buy their gear in the hopes they can pull off some massive score. So much so that good people are setting aside their ethics and integrity to be at the top of a list and reap the rewards that come with it. I like to overclock and bench, but I have no allusions that my score will ever make it to the top since I do not have the resources or support to make it. When you think about it, it's pretty discouraging.

[BeepBeep2]

Maybe they should not have banned them immediately and put "I'm a Cheater" across their avatar and then ban them a few days later.

Disable their signatures (Or make them say "I cheated", "I'm a cheater" under username, disable avatar, make name heading poop brown.

[Don_Dan]

IDK, I see where you and Dave are coming from but people have a right to vent their shock and anger at this outrage. And it's not as though there is a lot of personal attacks and name-calling going on. Though I agree it's probably only fair and prudent to separate this from skinnee's lc work.

Let me get this straight, don't think I'm posting this as a member of the Xtreme 3D Team, I'm only posting my own point of view. Having said that I was probably a LOT angrier than most of you guys because he was/is a member of my team. Risking his reputation with those actions was a very foolish thing to do. Do the crime, do the time.

All I'm calling for is some moderation, I see many guys demanding life-time ban on XS and hwbot. Let me remind you guys that there are a few guys posting at hwbot that have been accused of cheating in the past and yet they are back in business again.

Just my 2 c.

[mrcape]

Contests suck.

[Gautam]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

FWIW, our score here took A LOT of $$$...including one (expensive) retail chip...when I think about it, probably more than the prizes even including the plane tix are worth.

[Oliver]

wickedness.

nothing about money, but shared result.

Mistake is done and they are still good benchers.

[Mean Machine]

wickedness.

nothing about money, but shared result.

Mistake is done and they are still good benchers.

And you're not going to end with "keep pushing it" this time, huh?

[massman]

You know something? Sometimes the better OC'er doesn't win. Sometimes it's dumb luck and the guy with the golden CPU wins. That's how it SHOULD be.

THIS.

IS.

WHAT.

PEOPLE.

NEED.

TO.

UN-DER-STAND.

[Brian y.]

And you're not going to end with "keep pushing it" this time, huh?

I think Oliver saw that for the first time it was pushed too far....

[xguntherc]

Sad to see them go, skinnee has been a great part of the community and very helpful to me in the past weeks.

hmm.. interesting story. Not smart guys. You're real skills were plenty. You shouldn't have got greedy guys

[M.Beier]

I'm sorry if I'm not quite crying and being all sad about this debacle.

To me, OC contests are pissing contests. A bunch of dudes get together and see who gets the luckiest with equipment.*1 Sharing results is of course a dumb thing to do (it just shows how un-mature this scene is, that something like this is even possible). However, there's two problems with these bans: First, nothing prevents them from submitting results again through a proxy (not just the technology, also a proxy person) and getting "glory" like that.*2 Second, I think that it shows the limitation of these types of competition to a point where other people might just be turned off from competitive overclocking. I mean, seriously, one dude with a single setup ends up getting winning positions in 3 different countries...wtf? Do they not have good players over there at all?*3 Is the competition so weak that perhaps there shouldn't even be this kind of event at all, yet? It makes the entire "competitive overclocking" scene look weak and uninteresting. At that point, it would've been better for the entire scene to just pretend like this didn't happen, fix the competition format, get more people involved, attain critical mass, then actually start policing the scene properly, when it actually matters.

Now that bans are out, dirty laundry has been cleaned in public (for who's best interest again?) and people have commented, we can already see the negative backlash going in obvious directions (i.e. these guys must have cheated on everything they ever did, therefore nobody can trust their reviews anymore...right...)

Anyway, it's not like the guys made up fake scores, those were actually legit results from one guy who couldn't be bothered to get all the fame (lol?) to himself. If anything, it is such a small storm in a glass of water that I doubt anybody is going to care by next week. Those who will remember, I can count using my fingers.*4

1* Ok, there is no skills involved, especially not in live events
Cmon, you are kidding no one.... Luck, overclocking, optimizing/tweaking, and scheduling time all required for live contests

2* You underestimate the value of a clean reputation... Its obviously more then a hobby for some; a lifestyle, a path... Any idea how much time it takes to make as many benchmarks as these guys do?
Technical limits isnt the problem, rather the goal is unacheivable if the rest of us wont like it....

3* Screening is a massive problem.... Now this is only hypotherical; but, what if AndreYang actually had an industry selling results? making money on cheating... I dont know, I honestly dont think so.... But do you consider it luck when buying 200 pieces of all hardware and testing all of it? Have you ever heard about "statistic"????

4* Congratulations, you just informed everyone that you are on the wrong forum

THIS.

IS.

WHAT.

PEOPLE.

NEED.

TO.

UN-DER-STAND.

Pieter, is this what you try to convince yourself since I am still ahead in competing against you?

[Leeghoofd]

Pieter, is this what you try to convince yourself since I am still ahead in competing against you?

It depends on how you look at the rankings Silly Marc

[G.Foyle]

Many of you guys may not like him, but deeply he's a proud and good man....

Wasnt that the case for OPB too? Still we're better off without him.

[Jaco]

Can't we give him a 25 year XS ban ?
We'll see if he changed his ways afterwards and if necessary extend the ban