Would you buy an Opteron SMP board for enthuthiasts?

[zanzabar]

I repeat: We shouldn't look forward for AMD support on this. What we need is an independent Motherboard vendor or BIOS developer that wants to take that risk all by themselves.

i was going on what beep was saying, and i dont think that any1 but asus would even try but asus is rather unreliable for server boards most of the time and i think that amd locks out voltage adjustment and changing the base clock.

[JF-AMD]

they are the same thing (or have corresponding electrically identical parts parts), they just have a different laser etch on the IHS and name on the cpu ID (and the testing and binning for opterons but thats not needed for a phenom). so for a mangy since all of the testing is done on the opterons and that is were u would pull from, then u would not have to do more testing just send out a small batch with a different etching and an unlocked multi and maybe a high VID as u can change the multi on some boards but not the VID. send it out to some benchers and get a huge jump on CB and Wprime

They are *generally* the same. They go through some different back end testing, there are different fusing recipes and potentially some different circuitry.

The fusing is what will probably trip you up. Fusing includes all of the data about what the processor is and the characteristics. I don't know the difference between client and server, but you could easily have the same die come out that could be a high bin standard power or an HE part, it really comes down to the fusing at that point.

[jcool]

Would I buy an overclockable Dual Magny-Cours rig? Hell yeah. I voted for Gigabyte, and if you look at this realistically, only Asus or Gigabyte (or maybe AMD themselves) will even consider doing something like that. Tyan, SM & Co won't _ever_ release a factory overclockable board.

[stangracin3]

Would I buy an overclockable Dual Magny-Cours rig? Hell yeah. I voted for Gigabyte, and if you look at this realistically, only Asus or Gigabyte (or maybe AMD themselves) will even consider doing something like that. Tyan, SM & Co won't _ever_ release a factory overclockable board.

i voted other, hoping that EVGA might join the party

[pokipoki]

Would I buy an overclockable Dual Magny-Cours rig? Hell yeah. I voted for Gigabyte, and if you look at this realistically, only Asus or Gigabyte (or maybe AMD themselves) will even consider doing something like that. Tyan, SM & Co won't _ever_ release a factory overclockable board.

Ditto.

Back in the days at 2cpu.com, Asus PC-DL was the top board for xeons, relatively easy to overclock with pin mods. But their bios updates aren't that dependable. All email requests went unanswered, unless you go the back door or know someone there (e.g. representative from main distributor requesting a particular feature etc). It's not easy to get them to fix/add something in the bios at all.

Tyan/Supermicro won't be bothered with us, totally. What we need is an underdog board maker that would do something as boring/radical just to increase their market, although tiny by their standards.

Keep in mind although socket longevity is a great value for Opterons, it won't go far if the board is not updated for new CPUs.

[TheBlueChanell]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

You should be pushing on the client guys.

What about my Opterons 165 and 1212 that ran so beautifully in s939/AM2.

4x4 failed (no offense) because in no way was K8 competitive with Conroe and things only got with the 65nm shrink. I also think asus was one of the only manufacturers to embrace a consumer quad father and from what I remember reading bios support was meh.

Deneb/Thuban can hold their own against Lynnfield/Bloomfield even in your laymans reviews and it only get's better when you start tweaking your cpu-nb/memory which is something 98% of reviewers don't bother to do.

I'd love to take on 12 core's weather you call it Opteron, Phenom or Phenomeron and it would do you well with benchmarks.

Going back to what Chew said earlier about your first time builder with money. They listen to their friends on xboxlive and read youtube comments and they all think Intel is the and AMD is nothing. I was just building a PC for a friend's of mine's BF. He was insisting on spending money on an i7/P55 combo. I tried to convince him to go the AMD route and save a little cash and he refused. He could of picked up an X4/X6 with any 800 series chipset and saved himself $100-$200 which could of been used to purchase something like a 5850 instead of a 5770 and equated to a much better gaming experience, this is a gaming machine after all. Instead he went the Intel route because it's better (and has more GeeBee's) and will probably enjoy it but not as much as he would if he would of listened to me. He's going to be disappointed playing BC2 @ 1080p with that 5770.

*Disclaimer* The i7 800 and P55 series really aren't worth the money in my opinion, X58+i7 and H55+i3/i5 or bust.

[JF-AMD]

1300 series will work in AM3, I use one at home. But we just don't ever market that because it is not our target market. I am sure that I could get a faster Phenom for less money, but my processors are free so I use Opteron. If I was going to Fry's and spending real money I'd buy a Phenom instead of Opteron for a desktop because right now, if there are any issues, GB will just tell me it is an unsupported processor. If I was building a server I'd want Opteron.

[TheBlueChanell]

I have already explained that allowing overclocking on opteron would result in lower net shipments of Opteron products. We would end up selling less because the net decrease in server sales would never be offset by the small number of enthusiast sales.

If I want to sell more I need to keep Opteron focused where it is and leave the Phenom to enthusiasts.

I dont understand the logic behind that? It could be totally hidden to those who did not want that function and I don't see how that effects the brand when this the first time in like 5 years when AMD hasn't had a Opteron desktop part that was enthusiasts rage.

S7's MC overclock was all over the web, forums and slapped onto the front page of Fudzilla. When everyone read that did they run around the room screaming "AMD ALLOWS OVERCLOCKING ON SERVER CHIPS, THE SKY IS FALLING" No. So how would allowing overclocking on certain board combinations or circumstances effect your server sales? We are talking cpu/mb combo and not a whole server.

[JF-AMD]

I have outlined the costs extensively, and even if there was no impact on the server sales, there would not be profit in addressing this market.

If there was overclocking of Opteron, and AMD was supporting it, then it would be real easy for the intel fanboy to tell people "Opteron is for gamers, not serious business" and that could impact sales negatively. We need to gain server share, so being viewed as an enthusiast choice does not help further that.

I have said many times (on this thread and others) supporting overclocking would cost more than we could earn and would degrade the brand image. It just doesn't work out.

You can't go halfway. Either you support it and assume all of the costs, or you don't support it. It's like being pregnant, either all in or not at all. There is no halfway support option. Supporting something quietly would hurt even more, as you have all of the costs yet far less revenue because people don't know about it.

[TheBlueChanell]

I have outlined the costs extensively, and even if there was no impact on the server sales, there would not be profit in addressing this market.

If there was overclocking of Opteron, and AMD was supporting it, then it would be real easy for the intel fanboy to tell people "Opteron is for gamers, not serious business" and that could impact sales negatively. We need to gain server share, so being viewed as an enthusiast choice does not help further that.

I have said many times (on this thread and others) supporting overclocking would cost more than we could earn and would degrade the brand image. It just doesn't work out.

You can't go halfway. Either you support it and assume all of the costs, or you don't support it. It's like being pregnant, either all in or not at all. There is no halfway support option. Supporting something quietly would hurt even more, as you have all of the costs yet far less revenue because people don't know about it.

Than I'd say "Show me all the gamer's who are spending $2k on a cpu/mobo"

[JF-AMD]

Well, if you look at the numbers above, it is ~.3% of the desktop market (not the full client market) and it is shrinking rapidly. 8-core client products next year will make that number even smaller.

[Skylit]

I have outlined the costs extensively, and even if there was no impact on the server sales, there would not be profit in addressing this market.

If there was overclocking of Opteron, and AMD was supporting it, then it would be real easy for the intel fanboy to tell people "Opteron is for gamers, not serious business" and that could impact sales negatively. We need to gain server share, so being viewed as an enthusiast choice does not help further that.

I have said many times (on this thread and others) supporting overclocking would cost more than we could earn and would degrade the brand image. It just doesn't work out.

You can't go halfway. Either you support it and assume all of the costs, or you don't support it. It's like being pregnant, either all in or not at all. There is no halfway support option. Supporting something quietly would hurt even more, as you have all of the costs yet far less revenue because people don't know about it.

If you really wanted to gain server share, you would run adds and TV commercials explaining how opteron is superior to the xeon counterpart. I mean, It's been years upon years since I've seen one...

From your stance on this subject, you kinda just hinted that Intel still controls a large majority of server market. Why is this? What have they been doing that you guys havent? Why would adding overclocking capabilities damage your "image" while the competition can get away with it? Now, I really don't care about overclocking on Opterons, but this is just something to put in perspective.

[freeloader]

Somebody at AMD needs to be looking at this thread.

Sadly, the only AMD reps we have here are JF-AMD and 64NOMIS, which deal with marketing.

That's your problem right there. AMD and marketing are two words that should never be put together in the same sentence. Talk about an oxymoron! I've never seen an AMD commercial on TV, I've never seen an AMD billboard anywhere and never heard any type of AMD commercial on the radio. Intel on the other hand, everywhere.

Back on topic....I'd love to purchase an enthusiast board even with a single socket G34. Dual sockets would just be icing on the cake.

[Deluded]

Skylit, he already answered all of this a few posts back. Just read the thread for once.

[Sunfire]

I've read the thread, and it seems that no overclockable G34 board is going to be released. It's clear.

But!

I was thinking about an event or should I say experiment

All is needed is some:
- 'experimental' socket G34 motherboard(s) with 'experimental' BIOS
- an 'experimental' socket G34 12 core CPU with unlocked multipliers, and
- some of XS most talented overclockers

Put these together for a few days with 'zounds' of dryice/LN2 (LHe is optional ) and, that's all.
Oh, and maybe a few live streams where everybody can watch the whole 'experiment'

So, I would love to see some socket G34 action, and I think I'm not the only one.

[stangracin3]

@ JF

and the TWKR didnt cost money?

[chew*]

I've read the thread, and it seems that no overclockable G34 board is going to be released. It's clear.

But!

I was thinking about an event or should I say experiment

All is needed is some:
- 'experimental' socket G34 motherboard(s) with 'experimental' BIOS
- an 'experimental' socket G34 12 core CPU with unlocked multipliers, and
- some of XS most talented overclockers

Put these together for a few days with 'zounds' of dryice/LN2 (LHe is optional ) and, that's all.
Oh, and maybe a few live streams where everybody can watch the whole 'experiment'

So, I would love to see some socket G34 action, and I think I'm not the only one.

yah this was already something that was looked into and it was shot down before it even went airborne.

This isn't something that we did not discuss over 4 months ago

I can volt mod the board, not a problem.....but either the board needs to clock HT insanely or I would need ES chips......both of which appears it won't happen.

Want to see it happen source me some unlocked ES chips...not like i haven't already looked. Door appears to be locked tight as far as any ES MC chips being leaked to public.

Put simply if users want to see this AMD will have none of it nor contribute.

[BeepBeep2]

You know, sometimes investing in what your customers want, ends up giving you more down the road...

[zir_blazer]

1300 series will work in AM3, I use one at home. But we just don't ever market that because it is not our target market. I am sure that I could get a faster Phenom for less money, but my processors are free so I use Opteron. If I was going to Fry's and spending real money I'd buy a Phenom instead of Opteron for a desktop because right now, if there are any issues, GB will just tell me it is an unsupported processor. If I was building a server I'd want Opteron.

This is basically the resume of all this Thread. You CAN use a Opteron 1xxx in any Socket AM3 Motherboard, and even you can overclock it if you use it in an enthusiast class Motherboard. As a consumer, I could simply pay more for the Opteron brandname if I wanted to, even if I was using it to play games, overclocking, or whatever. But we can't decide the Processors fate on current Dual Processor platform because there aren't Motherboards with BIOS options to allow us do so. The way that you do market targetting doesn't mean that I will follow it just because you say me so, is simply who you attempt to sell these parts to, as I take my own decisitions as a costumer and pick the parts that more suits my likings. I see what is closer to what I want, and attempt to adapt it to my needs, but in this case I don't have the requiered tools to do so.

Unsupported Processors are commonly hear about in the enthusiast world. In the end of the Athlon XP era, people used Mobile Athlons XP in Desktop Motherboards because they were higher quality bins and overclocked much more (This is what happened with Opterons in Socket 939). While any BIOS would fail to recognize its brand name and model, it worked flawlessly, as they were physically the same Core that were used on regular Desktop Athlons XP.
I repeat: You are the wrong guy to ask to adapt some product to our needs. First, because we don't requiere AMD support or products aimed specifically at us, we just need the tools to adapt them to our needs, and that sort of tweaking is done in the BIOS. We need BIOS developers support, not yours. If an independent Motherboard vendor provides us the tools for overclocking, underclocking, whatever, you Opterons will obey its commands no matter if you like that sort of bondage punishment on your parts or no.

[JF-AMD]

You know, sometimes investing in what your customers want, ends up giving you more down the road...

That is exactly what we are doing. Everyone keeps forgetting that my customers are the people that buy servers. My customers are not enthusiasts.

[chew*]

Seriously guys your beating a dead horse.

I went down this road even before thuban was launched.....best to just drop it.

[stangracin3]

That is exactly what we are doing. Everyone keeps forgetting that my customers are the people that buy servers. My customers are not enthusiasts.

if possible can you point this thread to one of the product managers.

[BeepBeep2]

Seriously guys your beating a dead horse.

I went down this road even before thuban was launched.....best to just drop it.

Thing is, there's no loss. Just flaming at a computer screen because a multi-billion dollar corporation won't listen to a group of about ~20 people.

Even 64NOMIS has seemed to ignore this thread.

[Deluded]

Regardless, thanks JF for at least trying to answer our questions. I learned a lot.

[pokipoki]

I guess the moment is just not here yet.

Looking at the poll results so far, Asus is the top choice for boards, with many interested in 4P as well, no doubt due to AMD removing the 4P tax. Did we have an Asus rep here at XS in the past?