Check this homemade WB out

[KrisMRT]

Very interesting block. Can't wait to see more results.

[nateman_doo]

Very interesting block. Can't wait to see more results.

You and me both!

[Vampiyer]

Hmm... nice block - well crafted.

I don't think it would outperform the top blocks on the market given the same water temperature (meaning I don't think it will produce a lower temperature delta).

- BUT, most people are space-limited, and this solution is STILL relatively compact.

Most of all I'm impressed by your craftsmanship... the idea is quite obvious and has been tossed around before, but your execution is undeniably great, and it serves as evidence that the heatsink CAN act as an additional mini-radiator.

I can't say I wouldn't be interested... I'm jealous

[nateman_doo]

Thanks! Glad you like it

[mlwood37]

Just gonna post to wish you the best of luck mate i think you idea is excellent and i hope it works out for you ...

Never be put down by comments just take the good points and smile !!!!

[nateman_doo]

Just gonna post to wish you the best of luck mate i think you idea is excellent and i hope it works out for you ...

Never be put down by comments just take the good points and smile !!!!

Thanks! Excellent philosophy to live by also

[affiliate13]

I would say better to support Nateman even if you think his block isnt a good design.
Constructive criticism, pointers and helpful advice would paint all concerned in a better light.
He is trying to do something plenty of others would want to do but dont have the time, money, tools etc to manage it.
Innovation is good isnt it?
Testing might not be as accurate as you guys are used so why not show him how to test more carefully and produce results that stand up to scrutiny.
Vapor's tests will cure that and Nateman will have numbers to play with and a direct comparison to base revisions.
No one gets anything perfect first time and whilst this design has flaws that plenty of folk have pointed out i dont see many of the more knowledgeable members making suggestions on how to improve it or if he scraps it what to do next instead.
From many in this thread it sounds like we know better so dont try.
Well if we are really unlucky there are other people with workshops downing tools and thinking well if thats the response i wont try either.

I reckon its fine to lampoon one of the big companies for getting it wrong, they have full time engineers and quality control people to blame and marketing folks to hide behind.

When a bloke on his own tries something for good or bad try to support him otherwise it isnt a community its a school yard bulling session.

[Manicdan]

i think whats missing is the requirements for the block, the design goals and the results of them

if he was trying to build a block that performs better than any other by using fans to cool the block, then he will fail because more can be gained by simply using a bigger radiator.

if he is trying to make a block that does not let your 1000$ cpu fry when your 50$ pump fails, then he is on the right track. more effort needs to be put into this and show the current problems and how your design is able to fix and accomplish this goal.

[nateman_doo]

i think whats missing is the requirements for the block, the design goals and the results of them

if he was trying to build a block that performs better than any other by using fans to cool the block, then he will fail because more can be gained by simply using a bigger radiator.

I will disagree based on general computer case room. Unless you go crazy modding and put tons of radiators outside the case, you are still limited to how many you can have. More may be gained by an extra radiator (still pending results), but if you can't fit any more radiators what does one do?

if he is trying to make a block that does not let your 1000$ cpu fry when your 50$ pump fails, then he is on the right track. more effort needs to be put into this and show the current problems and how your design is able to fix and accomplish this goal.

I guess in total I leave it up to the user to find what they need it for.

Either starting on air, then going to water...
in case of pump failure...
lack of radiator space etc... I am sure there are a bunch of scenarios that this block could address. I designed it to be useful for all purposes.

[Manicdan]

I will disagree based on general computer case room. Unless you go crazy modding and put tons of radiators outside the case, you are still limited to how many you can have. More may be gained by an extra radiator (still pending results), but if you can't fit any more radiators what does one do?


I guess in total I leave it up to the user to find what they need it for.

Either starting on air, then going to water...
in case of pump failure...
lack of radiator space etc... I am sure there are a bunch of scenarios that this block could address. I designed it to be useful for all purposes.

looking at cost, a good waterblock is 40-50$, then yours has 20-40$ more of copper. space should not be much of an issue. if you have an intake and an exhaust, you can put a radiator on both. putting a heatsink on the block in additon to that is just going to heat up the same air more and more. efficiency will be way to low for the extra costs. (think of it as the corsair H50, but 2 of them in a row to mimic intake and exhaust, and then a third in a row for your block heatsink, its best when you have cool air, an each layer gets worse very quickly)

also theres the fact that you simply may not be able to beat out the best waterblocks which have dozens of revisions to be optimized for various flow speeds. the original waterblocks (dangerden maze 3 and older) were home made quality and have been surpassed for a decade now. if your goal is to be as good as them (in their test cases) you have ALOT of hard work ahead of you.

my opinion: dont worry about trying to be the best, and worry about offering a realistic option that protects their PC that standard water cooling never could. if your goal is to be the best, then your appearing to only achieve bragging rights. if your goal is to do something unique, then your a revolutionary.

[nateman_doo]

looking at cost, a good waterblock is 40-50$, then yours has 20-40$ more of copper. space should not be much of an issue. if you have an intake and an exhaust, you can put a radiator on both. putting a heatsink on the block in additon to that is just going to heat up the same air more and more. efficiency will be way to low for the extra costs. (think of it as the corsair H50, but 2 of them in a row to mimic intake and exhaust, and then a third in a row for your block heatsink, its best when you have cool air, an each layer gets worse very quickly)

also theres the fact that you simply may not be able to beat out the best waterblocks which have dozens of revisions to be optimized for various flow speeds. the original waterblocks (dangerden maze 3 and older) were home made quality and have been surpassed for a decade now. if your goal is to be as good as them (in their test cases) you have ALOT of hard work ahead of you.

my opinion: dont worry about trying to be the best, and worry about offering a realistic option that protects their PC that standard water cooling never could. if your goal is to be the best, then your appearing to only achieve bragging rights. if your goal is to do something unique, then your a revolutionary.

When you say as good as them in "their" test cases, I think PC's don't normally operate under lab conditions. They operate under unique conditions. Every computer has various degrees of heat removal, and I made my block to function in the worst case scenario (which is how I geared my comparison).

I personally think that the tests with additional rads should scale up still in favor of my block, but others say that is far from the truth. I don't pretend to know the physics behind it, but I know it works on air alone, so add the same cool water as what another block would get, and it works out in my head. I think the block should be arriving at the skinnee labs as we speak.

Why not build a unique block that is unique & can be the best? Who doesn't enjoy bragging rights? I do it to be unique, and the best.

[Manicdan]

When you say as good as them in "their" test cases, I think PC's don't normally operate under lab conditions. They operate under unique conditions. Every computer has various degrees of heat removal, and I made my block to function in the worst case scenario (which is how I geared my comparison).

I personally think that the tests with additional rads should scale up still in favor of my block, but others say that is far from the truth. I don't pretend to know the physics behind it, but I know it works on air alone, so add the same cool water as what another block would get, and it works out in my head. I think the block should be arriving at the skinnee labs as we speak.

Why not build a unique block that is unique & can be the best? Who doesn't enjoy bragging rights? I do it to be unique, and the best.

their conditions meaning a broad range of tests to show where its weak and strong. (temps vs pressure drop, minimum required gpm, curves showing alot of info)
worse case scenario wouldnt be a stock clock and stock volts. my 1055t is using the oem heatsink with the fan connected to a resistor to drop it to about 7v, its lower than stock cooling and stays under 55C

its not about just adding radiators, its where they are placed. you have an open case with the radiators on the outside, which feeds cool air to your heatsink, and to your rads. even if this is the same test as the regular waterblock, its synthetic, not an average case.

some simple physics for you, heat removal is best done at C/W, how many degress the temperature goes up, based on how many watts of heat generated. your block may remove 20W of the 100W generated by the cpu, but if you add more radiators, then your block may only remove 10W, why? cause the copper is letting the heat escape past the base easier when there is only a little amount of heat being removed by the water. depending on how close the contact is between your fins, and the source of the heat, is going to determine greatly, how efficient those extra fins will be. even if your block is only 1" tall, the distance my be alot larger if the heat has to travel around the edge and back to the top block. some internal shots would be nice (havnt looked at your thread in a while, are there new photos up?)

i will bet that your block is only the best when the water flow has come to a near standstill. the physics alone of trying to get the heat around the cavity for the water will greatly reduce the blocks effectiveness compared to a standard heatsink/fan. so in combo with water, it will only be a hair better for 99% of the conditions out there. it will only be better when its a near failure condition.

what i think it would take to perfect this concept:

a small channel of water down the center, leaving plenty of space for heatpipes, 2 on either side (this allows more air cooling support, for a loss in water cooling effiency). the heatpipes would then hold the fins raised up from the base so you can reach under, and so the fins can be wide enough for a 120mm fan without hitting any caps or ram. then to supply a fan that has a built in thermal sensor and knows to speed up when air temps increase.

[nateman_doo]

heh... a 120mm fan would be insane! I have something like you speak of in new revisions, but I would rather see what version 1.0 does before I re-invent the wheel.

(no new photo's up-block should be at skinny labs by now???? )

The smartfan has to do for now as far as temp controlled fan. It really works like a charm, I can hear the fan fire up at 59°C and go back to silent once it cooled off the processor in short order.

[Martinm210]

What are you thinking in terms of fabrication costs for materials, tooling, and machining? Is you intent to sell or are you just having fun?

That seems like a fairly hefty mass of copper that'll be pretty expensive on fabrication. I recall making some more standard sized blocks...I think I managed to mill out about 2 to 3 different bases. Even at the smaller sizes I was fairly dissapointed in how much cost was involved and it really opened up my eyes on how important the fabrication cost was. Some folks might pay $100 for a custom hand made block, but that market is pretty darn competeive for anything mass produced.

I actually took a few side one off orders to make custom stuff and every single time I lost money in it..barely made enough to cover materials and tooling and usually donated my time to do the machining. I would suggest talking with Ianh here or fastfreddy over at ocnet if your intent is to do more than just some fun experiments. They are the only two I know who were producing custom blocks for anything more than fun. I gave up hope, but I do still have my lathe/mill. But...Instead of making water blocks they have been making custom dune buggy parts..

Its a great experience though..nothing more satisfying than cooling you own pc with your own designed block..this used to be fairly common a few years ago...now people freak out if they can't use compression fittings....unfortunately the watercolling hobby has gone mainstream and we see less and less crafstmanship every day. Fortunately there are a few brave souls out there experimenting including yourself. Don't let the negative comments get you down..its all part of learning. It really is all good!..and we are also fortunate to have people like Vapor and Skinnee doing real scientific levels of testing. Id suggesting learning everything you can if you want to carry your own testing to higher levels....testing is another one of those always critisized tasks...you'll never please everyone. Only human nature for folks to justify their own past purchasing decisions..they don't like thinking they were wrong or that there is something better than what they already bought. Also people enjoy sharing their own experiences..just that we often come off as critics when that really isn't our intent. Anyhow...bottom line is to have fun and learn...and don't let the drama get in the way of that..

Cheers!
Martin

[JeffyB]

I hope you manage to develop this further into production (possibly with a manufacturer if you need) as it will allow increased cooling into loops that cannot support any more rads as well as the added safefty should a pump fail. It could also be developed as a finned aftermarket addon for existing blocks that supported a fan.

[cegras]

What a read! Why don't you try heatpipes next time?

[BeepBeep2]

What a read! Why don't you try heatpipes next time?

ZOMG a Vapor-X CPU block. it's genious.

[ohms]

If I gets more polished up with a smooth finish and Nickel plating I'd buy one

[nateman_doo]

thank u all for the kind words. heatpipes are outside the capabilities of my basement fabrication. Im sort of on a mini vacation this weekend but i cant seem to keep away. :P

[nateman_doo]

If I gets more polished up with a smooth finish and Nickel plating I'd buy one

thanks! cant do the nickle plate (as of yet unless someone knows a good source of DIY nickel plate) but the next ones will look much nicer

[TJ TRICHEESE]

Check out this post.

so.... just because his did not work doesn't mean this won't

[Vapor]

Just mounted it up. Results are not pretty.

24c water temps and I'm seeing high 90s for temps. Add six to that (to get to my normalized 30c water temps) and it's over 100C whereas the Supreme HF P1 and kryos XT are at 76C, Apogee GT is 83.3C, and the Heatkiller 3.0 LT is at 78.1C

I'm not going to risk my testbed so shutting it down now and will check contact and remount.

[shazza]

so.... just because his did not work doesn't mean this won't

Check the physics - the properties of water and air - these don't change.

[Church]

Probably only way to be able to complete tests is to decrease heatload, as in lower overclock and alike. Will add extra work to test with other waterblocks though at same eased up conditions. Well, at least you'll be able to test out impact of aircooled part (i doubt it's effectiveness though .. fin area is too small compared to moder air coolers).

[TJ TRICHEESE]

Check the physics - the properties of water and air - these don't change.

you are still not telling me anything i don't know.

the water temp will increase as the system runs for longer until it becomes stable. with decent case airflow this block could have worked with minor adjustments as the air temp will be lower than the water temp

EDIT: Seriously do you think that someone would think that their properties would change?