NVIDIA says Fermi yields are fine, promises 512-core version

[Sn0wm@n]

Does anyone even know what this 'yield' number represents? Is it the percentage of chips that can be used as 480/470, or the percentage that can be used for 480/470/460?

i think its the number of salvageable chips....

[Sn0wm@n]

duh yourself

The thing is even ignoring tweaking refinements, not all cores are the same, even on the same wafer there can be big differences in TDP. Some dead, barely usable, some good, some very good and some excellent. Nvidia had the 480 configured so they could get numbers were not phantoms cards, this full 512 version looks like it could be a phantom. Creme of the creme these are the ultra rare perfect examples.

it all depend on how good the process and the chip was in the begining...


like say if fermi didnt have room for failure included in the design and the transistor problem at tsmc arise how can they fix it right in such a short time????


there are loads of variable to look at before even thinking your comment is correct.... not all dies are the same... sure... but then again if the chip is made to have some sort of bufffer in case something goes wrong on the production side then they can improve it over time... exactly what ati did ....

[saaya]

The architecture itself is designed with 512 cores. Saying there is a chance for a 512 core version is like saying the sky is blue...

exactly... pure marketing speak, the art of saying something without saying anything at all

A: Nvidia does not comment on unannounced products; however, we have a chance to launch a graphics chip with 512 cores in the future.

so IF there would be an upcoming product with 512cores, then he wouldnt comment on it... as nvidia doesnt comment on unannounced products... so he basically said they do NOT plan a 512core card at this point in time... which DOES confirm that yields are not exactly great... they wouldnt need a ton of 512core cards, this would be an ultra which is very limited in numbers... but they dont even have those few thousand gpus it seems...

TSMC's yields for its 40nm process has met our expectations and market rumors about the yields being lower than 20% are completely untrue.

if it has met nvidias expectations how come they continously ripped on tsmc in the past and pushed them to admit issues with their 40nm process and talk about why their yields have problems and apologize to nvidia? repeatedly!
who said yields are lower than 20%? the last i heard was 20-40%, so he pretty much confirmed that yields are 20% or a bit higher... which isnt exactly great by any means... its acceptable for the price points they target, but not good... if they would depend on gf100 alone they would be in serious trouble.

pretty amateurish statements imo, he unconsciously and inententionally confirmed what he tried to deny
1. no plans for a 512core card anytime soon
2. yields are around 30% = not very good

i wonder how they define yields though... since the 460 with 384sps will be based on gf100, that means they will be able to use even more chips that they would have had to throw away as garbage otherwise... 384sps means 4 disabled blocks, plus 3 disabled memory controllers... and a much higher vcore and tdp range per sps block... so their combined yields for 480, 470 and 460 should be way higher than those of the 480 and 470 alone...

so maybe thats where the 20-40% yield rumors come from?
20% for 480+470 and 40% for 480+470+460? that would make sense and explain why digitimes talked about such a wide range of 20-40 instead of saying ~30%...

[zalbard]

No, no, the yields are NOT under 20%. They're under 21%. GET IT RIGHT!

Yeah, it's funny how they haven't denied that, isn't it?

Yields so great they couldn't release the 512 version right off the bat!!!

Right Nvidia... right....

It's Nvidia, what did you expect?

i wonder how they define yields though... since the 460 with 384sps will be based on gf100, that means they will be able to use even more chips that they would have had to throw away as garbage otherwise... 384sps means 4 disabled blocks, plus 3 disabled memory controllers... and a much higher vcore and tdp range per sps block... so their combined yields for 480, 470 and 460 should be way higher than those of the 480 and 470 alone...

so maybe thats where the 20-40% yield rumors come from?
20% for 480+470 and 40% for 480+470+460? that would make sense and explain why digitimes talked about such a wide range of 20-40 instead of saying ~30%...

Yeah, that makes sense if they're talking about GF100 in particular.

[Zonker]

It was a poorly worded question really. It would interest me if the following questions were answered:

"Nvidia, what percentage of fermi chips coming out of the tsmc fab can be binned as 470 and what percentage can be binned as 480?"
"Also, are you at this moment holding back any top binned silicon that will be release as geforce 512?"

But I guess such questions would never be answered through official channels. Lucky we have charlie

[surfinhicdude]

It was a poorly worded question really. It would interest me if the following questions were answered:

"Nvidia, what percentage of fermi chips coming out of the tsmc fab can be binned as 470 and what percentage can be binned as 480?"
"Also, are you at this moment holding back any top binned silicon that will be release as geforce 512?"

But I guess such questions would never be answered through official channels. Lucky we have charlie

If they did that, AMD would know pretty much exactly what to drop their prices to so that Nvidia doesn't make a profit off the cards, assuming AMD has headroom in their pricing.

[jasonelmore]

I just got my gtx 480 today, supposedly the 2nd or 3rd batch's that etailers are getting. (bought it April 23rd) It's a EVGA model, and the serial number ends 000000314

kind of makes you wonder just how many cards they had at launch.

[skycrane]

how about this for a good analogy of the chance nvida makes the 512 ultra within 4 months of coming out with fermi.....



i would have a better chance of having a 3some with these 2

[TurboDiv]

Man, those TWO look really great, can i join ?

[Chumbucket843]

As the process matures, small tweaks are possible that will slightly increase yields, not much but a little.
.

these are intel's yields. there are no dates for obvious reasons but i would guess that decent manufacturability is right around when they start on the next node. that's why they can make 700mm2 tukwila on 65nm.

[Aerwidh]

exactly... pure marketing speak, the art of saying something without saying anything at all

so IF there would be an upcoming product with 512cores, then he wouldnt comment on it... as nvidia doesnt comment on unannounced products... so he basically said they do NOT plan a 512core card at this point in time... which DOES confirm that yields are not exactly great..

[...]

pretty amateurish statements imo, he unconsciously and inententionally confirmed what he tried to deny
1. no plans for a 512core card anytime soon
2. yields are around 30% = not very good

You might be on to something there... in any case it's worth considering.
Your title should probably read "Xtreme BS detector" instead

[STEvil]

Dont need a BS detector when someone at nV speaks these days lol

[gOJDO]

Dont need a BS detector when someone at nV speaks these days lol

Yeah, but you might need a BS protector:

[Trembledust]

But does it need to be on water?
Water is a pain in the @ss and expensive...

You're joking right? @ water cooling

Doesn't have to be but if you want to get higher stable overclocks I'd go water over the stock coolers any day. Plus going water is quieter...if you are a stickler for fan noise.

IMO watercooling isn't a pain. Its actually pretty simple. Expensive...I could agree with that if you're going to water cool a triple sli set up., and you are going for the top shelf parts. Water cooling one card on one loop...wouldnt be that expensive.

[Trembledust]

how about this for a good analogy of the chance nvida makes the 512 ultra within 4 months of coming out with fermi.....



i would have a better chance of having a 3some with these 2

Sry I had to comment on the threesome thing...I would never say never when it comes to threesomes...those two look like college chicks which up yur chances of a threesome with them by like 20%. Add the fact they dont seem shy about kissing each other in public...another 20%. If they are drinkers...u have an 70% chance unless u have a puss filled hump on your back, a lazy eye and a peg leg...even then slip em some X and u still would have a shot.

In regards to the 512 coming out in 4 mnths...yea I have to agree wit ya.

[saaya]

about watercooling... if you get the right gear its not a pain at all...
buy your vga with the waterblock installed, use those click vents to connect the tubing, you install them on both ends of the tubing, they are water tight, then you connect the blocks and radiator and tubing by just clicking it together.
if you have a good res/pump combo bleeding is a piece of cake too nowadays... all in all id say with the right equippment and a good guide or some experience you can set up watercooling (cpu+gpu) within 1 hour...
if your experienced 30mins might even be possible...

[JkS]

abit late but...

[saaya]

abit late but...

hah, i love that guy... what ever happened to him?
imo he should get his own late night show or something!

[JF-AMD]

Well, I have no idea what is going on in their business, but there are 2 yields - what they get from TSMC (die to wafer yield) and what the net yield is out of their factory (manufacturing yield). Charlie was indicating that yields were <20% and they were claiming that TSMC yields were >20%. Both can be true.

If TSMC is at 30% (die to wafer yeild) but half of the cards don't make it through all of the back-end testing or there are manufacturability issues (manufacturing yield), you would see a net yield of <20%.

As well, when they said yields were "within expectations", that would be perfectly true if their expectation was only 30% yields, right?

Theoretically, everyone could be telling the truth.

[h0bbes]

hah, i love that guy... what ever happened to him?
imo he should get his own late night show or something!

I think he lives in a different country now with his family. He probably made a deal with the US:P