Copper Oxide? Help me get rid of this.

[TheMash]

Hi XS community,
Im a IT and cooling (especially watercooling) enthusiast, as most of the people that wrote here
Im from Italy, so please sorry for any writing typos and mistakes.

Since 2 years, I can't get rid of watching my watercooling system colouring green, with formation of green/blue films into the tubes and on fittings, o-rings.
This is my actual watercooling system:

Pump: Laing DDC1 Plus T
CPU: Ybris Cooling Eclipse Chrome (chromed copper and brass, delrin)
Northbridge: Ybris Cooling K5 Chipset (copper, plexy top)
VGA: Ybris Cooling K5 VGA (same as chipset)
Southbridge: EK Waterblocks NB/SB4 (copper, plexy)

Radiator 1 : Black Ice GTS 240
Radiator 2 : TFC Single radiator
Radiator 3 : Magicool Single radiator

Reservoir: XSPC Laing Top Reservoir

Tube: PVC Clear (UV reactive) 13/10mm, bought on Aquatuning.de

All the fittings are made of nickel plated brass (compression).

There is no aluminum in the system, never used it in my systems, because I didnt see reason to discover how galvanic corrosion act on my system

So, this is the actual situation:













Is this copper oxide?
To clean my waterblock I used vinegar + salt (with iodine), and then washed for 5mins under hot water and dryed immediately, then washed with deionized/demineralized water.
The blocks were shiny.
On the blocks in the last pictures I used an italian product to clean metals, called Sidol.
Its made of Amonia. Im sure it was cleaned and washed very well, under hot water for 10 mins, and then were washed again with deionized/demineralized water.

The problem could be the water? I discovered recently that water I was buying was containing a bit of parfume.
I changed it with another brand of distilled water.

Or could be cause by solvents of the XSPC reservoir?
The first time I've put some water onto reservoir and I've shaked it, the result was microscopic bubbles forming and an intense smell of solvents inside the reservoir.

By the way, I dont know how to get rid of this problem, It is causing problem to pump, that sometimes stop working because of the deposits.
Maybe the problem its how I clean my watercooling rig.
I read in a thread in this forum that mixing Vinegar + Salt can cause oxidation.

Thanks in advance for your reply, it will be precious for me.

[Conumdrum]

Thats Algea or dye or something seperating in the liquid. It's not oxidation. Oxidation is black. Oxidation doesn't grow on tubing. Scroll down to see the oxidation on a CPU block in this build log, about 1/2 way. It is also a log you can use on how to rebuild your loop. You need a 100% teardown of everything, everything.
http://www.overclockers.com/annual-w...build-journal/


You don't mention the use of a biocide at all. You were using something to prevent growth I hope?
And you said two years? Did you keep the same liquid for two years?

[TheMash]

Thats Algea or dye or something seperating in the liquid. It's not oxidation. Oxidation is black. Oxidation doesn't grow on tubing. Scroll down to see the oxidation on a CPU block in this build log, about 1/2 way. It is also a log you can use on how to rebuild your loop. You need a 100% teardown of everything, everything.
http://www.overclockers.com/annual-w...build-journal/


You don't mention the use of a biocide at all. You were using something to prevent growth I hope?
And you said two years? Did you keep the same liquid for two years?

Hi Conumdrum, many thanks for your reply
I didnt use any biocide at all, just deionized water.
I explained it bad. I disassembly my watercooling rig very often (about 5-6 months, and in this interval I always renew the water every 3-4 weeks), this problem is lasting since 2 years, Im not keeping the liquid for two years

I'm thinking its Copper Oxide because of this thread -> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=22 , the color its the classic blue-green. Isnt it called Copper Oxide?
Surely now I have to teardown everything to clean it deeply.

So what should I use to clean it? These deposits appeared in 3-4 weeks of use, progressively.
Working temperature of the system (aka water temperature) are always low, 25-30 degrees celsius.
Should I use vinegar + salt?

Im checking the suggested thread...thanks.

[TheMash]

Oh, I forgot, this was my rig after renewing tubes and after cleaning radiators and waterblocks first with chloridric acid (20%) and water, then with vinegar+salt.
Finally washed with hot water at city water pressure, finally washed with deionized water to avoid minerals present in common city water (and here where I live the water is very rich of sodium, calcium).

[taters mcgee]

Definitely copper oxide, ketchup should get rid of it

[Conumdrum]

And no biocide? 3-4 weeks is a growth for sure.

Petras PHN PT-Nuke is what a LOT of us use or some silver coils. You have to use something for sure.

With a biocide your water won't need replaced but every 6 months or so.

Please Google petra and the biocide. He lists the exact chemical he uses, maybe you can find it at a lab store etc. I think there are a few EU stores that sell it too. Being US, I don't know of any EU stores.

Ohh and some have used some good stuff from aquarium stores too. Just be careful on that.

http://www.petrastechshop.com/
BTW, nice rig.

DON"T use veigear and salt!!!!!!!!! It can eat away at brass and copper!!!! NONONO!

You do need to tear the loop apart 100%, clean the rads like I mentioned in my log. Open the pumps, run a rag through the hoses, trear apart the CPU block. With chucks like that I can inmagine the inside of your block, pump etc.

My post LONNG ago on cleaning rads etc. just another help hack I wrote.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=312743

[Conumdrum]

Definitely copper oxide, ketchup should get rid of it

Yep, thats what I used to clean my block. But thats not the gunk on his hose etc. His problem is green growing stuff dude.

[Boulard83]

This is algea ... for sure !

PT_nuke !

[TheMash]

And no biocide? 3-4 weeks is a growth for sure.

Petras PHN PT-Nuke is what a LOT of us use or some silver coils. You have to use something for sure.

With a biocide your water won't need replaced but every 6 months or so.

Please Google petra and the biocide. He lists the exact chemical he uses, maybe you can find it at a lab store etc. I think there are a few EU stores that sell it too. Being US, I don't know of any EU stores.

Ohh and some have used some good stuff from aquarium stores too. Just be careful on that.

http://www.petrastechshop.com/
BTW, nice rig.

DON"T use veigear and salt!!!!!!!!! It can eat away at brass and copper!!!! NONONO!

You do need to tear the loop apart 100%, clean the rads like I mentioned in my log. Open the pumps, run a rag through the hoses, trear apart the CPU block. With chucks like that I can inmagine the inside of your block, pump etc.

My post LONNG ago on cleaning rads etc. just another help hack I wrote.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=312743

Thanks for "nice rig"
You are very kind answering here btw

Yeah, I watched many post here in XS forums, and I saw many people using silver coils.
I was thinking to aquarium stores too, I'll check.
I'll check petra and biocide too.

No vinegar and salt, okay. Btw for short time it shouldnt damage anything.

To keep away any doubt, I prepared 3 glasses with vinegar only, vinegar + salt, Sidol (amonia based).
I put 2 eurocent coins in every glass, leaving them inside for various hours... I will check later.
Now I can see (after abour 2 hours) the glass with Sidol (amonia) its turning greenish... make me thinking it has to do something with the colouring of my system.

I can say, the reservoir/top it s transparent, there is no gunk inside it, maybe there's some green powder deposits.
Other waterblocks are almost clean, as I can see through the top, 'cause its made of plexyglass.

The only one that shows some oxidation its the northbridge block, it has a black areas, probably copper oxide.
The greenish color after the fittings shoulds depends by the water pressure, that should be higher at the exit of the waterblock.
CPU waterblock its chromed, so its should be ok, no oxide.
Maybe If open them and take a pic of it we can understand better if its algae or something else.

Btw your posts are very interesting

As I know, ketchup cleans copper because of vinegar present... so it should be the same thing using pure vinegar, right? (every country has its natural copper cleaner )

[TheMash]

This is algea ... for sure !

PT_nuke !

hi Boulard, thanks for reply!
Its a bit hard for me to order the PT_nuke from Italy
I think I should pay very much for shipment for a 2$ bottle

Btw here in Italy we have a very common sanitizer e biocide: Amuchina, do you know?
Its a sodium hypochlorite based disinfectant.
Recommended usage its 2-3% in the liquid to disinfect.

[Conumdrum]

Can't say on your choice of boicide. .999 silver wire might be found from a jewler. The vinegar in ketchup is a very low percent. It helps because it sticks to the copper and the gentle toothbrush action finishes it. High levels of venegar and salt increases the action. Glad you only left it for a short time in your rad. Seen folks do it so long the water came out blue colored. Bad sign..

Follow my rad cleaning process, using the glass bowl. Shake like crazy. Any chuncks of goop? Of no, great if yes do it again and again and again. And let us know what the inside of the block looks like, pics would be great.

We solved your problem, now we are adding to our knowledge with you as the experiment.

[Church]

Simply visit any pet shop and ask for antialgae biocide for aquariums. imho should do.

[taters mcgee]

Yep, thats what I used to clean my block. But thats not the gunk on his hose etc. His problem is green growing stuff dude.

Thought he was running antifreeze or something, and that was the reason he had green tubing also thought that the stuff on the fittings was copper oxide, because it looks crystalline

[TJ Tom]

Are you sure it is copper oxide? The crystalline structure indicates it's some kind of salt (atleast to me) but the color is wrong. Cu2O is red and CuO is black. The only copper based material I know with a blue color is CuSO4 or maybe CuS. Anyway, I've had the same thing with my first build, but not this bad, on the fittings but it never really caused a problem. Curious!

[TheMash]

Thought he was running antifreeze or something, and that was the reason he had green tubing also thought that the stuff on the fittings was copper oxide, because it looks crystalline

No antifreeze or something like this, just pure deionized water.
EXACTLY, I didnt find the right word to describe it.
This deposits are crystalline, because they cracks when I scratch them.

Are you sure it is copper oxide? The crystalline structure indicates it's some kind of salt (atleast to me) but the color is wrong. Cu2O is red and CuO is black. The only copper based material I know with a blue color is CuSO4 or maybe CuS. Anyway, I've had the same thing with my first build, but not this bad, on the fittings but it never really caused a problem. Curious!

Of course Im not sure, im not a chemistry expert, but I've seen algae growing, and it hasnt this color and its not crystalline and make water very opaque and dirty.
My water is absolutely clean, but there are these deposits on tubes, fittings, around the o-rings, and a random deposits of some micron in the reservoir.

Yes, copper oxide should be black or red, as I've read in many place on the net.
I called it Copper Oxide because im not an expert, surely there is another term to identify correctly this material.

Its really curious man, for sure
It was not all this problem if it was a light deposit.
But it makes my pump stop to work, color my tubes green and makes them opaque.

I think the reason could be:

- The solvents used to glue the XSPC reservoir;
- Previous deionized water brand (it was parfumed, so I would not surprised if the water was not so DEIONIZED);
- Traces of amonia, because of polishing a waterblock with Sidol (amonia based);
- Traces of Hydrochloric acid (Muriatic Acid);
- Traces of vinegar+salt.

I washed everything connected to high pressure water of my house, very hot water, for 15 minutes, then again cleaned with muriatic acid, washed, vinegar (vinegar + salt for waterblocks), washed again with hot water, and finally washed with deionized water.
For your information, in my region city water is rich of sodium and calcium, could this elements interacted with copper + acids, making some ion exchange?

By the way, many thanks for the interest and replying to this thread.
Hoping my english its not so bad

[TheMash]

Can't say on your choice of boicide. .999 silver wire might be found from a jewler. The vinegar in ketchup is a very low percent. It helps because it sticks to the copper and the gentle toothbrush action finishes it. High levels of venegar and salt increases the action. Glad you only left it for a short time in your rad. Seen folks do it so long the water came out blue colored. Bad sign..

Follow my rad cleaning process, using the glass bowl. Shake like crazy. Any chuncks of goop? Of no, great if yes do it again and again and again. And let us know what the inside of the block looks like, pics would be great.

We solved your problem, now we are adding to our knowledge with you as the experiment.

I have some results about my experiment.
The coins left in vinegar and in vinegar + salt are perfect, no blue vinegar or any corrosion present.
The glass with Sidol (amonia),instead turned green (the Sidol itself became green), but the coin is still intact and perfect.
I'll try to leave them to the open air without rinsing.
Hoping copper oxide (or whatever is called) appears.

In few days I will receive new reservoir and Laing top, because im updating watercooling rig
And I will mount my new fullcover (you can see it in my avatar) on my 4870x2, so I have to clean everything for sure, and for sure I will follow your guides / suggestion.

I will try ketchup, Im curious about it. And I will buy some biocide at pet/aquarium shops.

[TheMash]

Guys, i think its definitely copper oxide, or copper sulfate, i dont know the exact nomenclature.
Its crystallized, when I scratch it with a tool, its like "salt" or "fine sand".
If it was algae it should be slimy, I think.
Also, when I put a light and turn around the green powder shines, like crystals.
Now I have to understand what produced this sulfate/oxide.

Some pics











And I bought a PH test.

[TheMash]

PH test results:

PLEASE NOTE: I changed the water recently (about a week ago)...

[MoMo_RT]

That looks like a mix of things.
On one hand it looks like your getting a buildup that can easily be due to improper radiator cleaning.
I do think you have an issue with oxidation or some sort of metal reaction but I don't think its the copper.
I think your nickel plating may be suspect here.

It may just be buildup from the radiator that algae has clung to.

[TheMash]

That looks like a mix of things.
On one hand it looks like your getting a buildup that can easily be due to improper radiator cleaning.
I do think you have an issue with oxidation or some sort of metal reaction but I don't think its the copper.
I think your nickel plating may be suspect here.

It may just be buildup from the radiator that algae has clung to.

Hi Momo, thanks for your interest and reply
What do you mean with improper? Maybe with with impromper cleaner?
I tried some ways to clean it: hydrochloridric acid (20%) and 80% water (city water), after that was washed for 15 mins internally connected to city pressure water.
I tried vinegar... and other typical cleaning products we use in Italy, that never cause problem to other users (they have almost an acid base composition).

For sure there is a metal reaction.
That waterblock in the pictures (the one chromed) was added recently, I have this problem since long time.
Many italian users own a Ybris Cooling waterblock like this, and they havent any problem of this kind.
Ybris Cooling its very serious, no bad products, you can trust me.
The problem lasts since very long time, Momo. Before compression fittings I had standard fittings, and things were the same.
Im very mixed by the way.

If it can help, this is my house water PH test (I live in Sicily, and the water here its rich of calcium and sodium).

It looks pretty alkaline.

[MoMo_RT]

If you're using tap water its probably safe to assume its a reaction to materials in the water clinging to your blocks.
Try using bottled distilled water and see if the problem persists.

It seriously looks like your water is probably too hard and you are getting a calcium buildup. The green can come from a number of different things. Be it copper oxidation that's clinging to the calcium, algae that's clinging, or any number of possibilities of metals that may be in your water. I really think you should give distilled water a try. You will probably find that the tap water is the culprit here.

[damha]

He said distilled so it is not that.

I am surprised this would happen. It might be the water you are using contains a lot of oxygen. I don't know how you could deal with that, either try a different brand or put a filter in your loop.

[TheMash]

If you're using tap water its probably safe to assume its a reaction to materials in the water clinging to your blocks.
Try using bottled distilled water and see if the problem persists.

It seriously looks like your water is probably too hard and you are getting a calcium buildup. The green can come from a number of different things. Be it copper oxidation that's clinging to the calcium, algae that's clinging, or any number of possibilities of metals that may be in your water. I really think you should give distilled water a try. You will probably find that the tap water is the culprit here.

Ehm... never used tap water
I use tap water only to do the first, hot wash. The final wash its done with deionized water.

[Blueking]

Can one use both PT nuke + silvercoil at same time ?

[TJ Tom]

Even though Copper oxide is red or black depending on the ON I do find pictures of "copper oxide" that have a color very much like the color your mysterious buildup has.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hhaTg03kiU...old+copper.jpg
http://www.shsu.edu/~chemistry/chm118/cuoxide.jpg
http://www.safossils.com/copper1001.jpg

I think it's safe to say it's copper oxide, given the large amount of copper the liquid touches
Anyway, def not algae.