The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[zalbard]

Yeah, because developing a chip is what a few engineers do in their free time. AMD/NVIDIA designed RV870/GT300 to be a 40 nm part and TSMC didn't meet their claims. How can you blame the developer for that?

In the interview with ATI guys they explained that they had to make some major changes in their chip production process in order to get decent yields at TSMC (thanks to RV740). Nvidia didn't. Their fault.

Yeah, because developing a chip is what a few engineers do in their free time. AMD/NVIDIA designed RV870/GT300 to be a 40 nm part and TSMC didn't meet their claims. How can you blame the developer for that?

Likewise, unless nVidia is keeping the best secret of all time, they will fail big time in mid-range and low-end (and thus total DX11 revenue). AMD's already saturated market for 6 months. Even if nVidia launched TODAY, they can't turn back time and make up so many months, and AMD can easily cut prices making market penetration very difficult.

EDIT: IMHO I dont think nVidia mid-range will launch in March, or even April.

They've been claiming their architecture is highly scalable. So we should see some mid-range parts at some point in time. But they are most certainly going to be late, since they are ALREADY late.

well, the fastest i heard of was the gigabyte card and that was cut down from 1ghz to 950 and now maybe even to 925, cause the latest rv870 chips dont clock that well anymore... probably a result of tsmc doing some weird things to try and improve yields...

the highest ln2 clocks i heard of were 1300... so i REALLY find it hard to believe 1150 stable on air... /

Around 1500 is the highest core clock on LN2. 1150 stable on air isn't actually impossible for quite a few cards... You just wouldn't bear the noise of the cooler.

Basically what I am saying is that if the GTX 480 bridges the performance gap between the HD 5870 and HD 5970, NVIDIA can initially price it quite high simply because there will be a sudden influx of GTX 480s into the market while HD 5970s are very rare. I'm not saying that is good for consumers but it would be good for NVIDIA's bottom line.

5970's availability isn't actually such a huge issue. You just have to spend a bit of time looking and you'll be able to buy a card.
But in really is far from the optimal purchase for anyone... Too long, too hot... Crossfire...
While GTX480 is a solid single card. Plus I'm sure it will be hyped at launch a lot so it will sell. Most high-end graphics cards usually sell... Power consumption / temperatures / price don't usually create an issue when talking about high-end graphics cards.

5890 has clocks 950/5,2 GHz

And I say there will be none. Source or it didn't happen!

[eric66]

12×128=1586 ?!? You have some strange math

whatever i said as far as i remember i didn't calculate anything so it is 1536 big difference

[GoldenTiger]

whatever i said as far as i remember i didn't calculate anything so it is 1536 big difference

It's basic math, and yes, it is a difference as it is an impossible configuration.

[eric66]

It's basic math, and yes, it is a difference as it is an impossible configuration.

cool down prof ok i admit my math isn't as perfect as yours

[LordEC911]

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740&p=9

so the via issue is fixed then?

No, but it didn't cause the same problems with Evergreen as it did with RV740, since they already knew about it.
They didn't have to redesign an Evergreen chip to work around the via problems.

[***Deimos***]

If I was doing the marketing for GTX480:

1.61GB Yo! - why use GiB, when GB looks bigger. HD makers have been doing it for decades..

Heatsink/fan is not just for cooling, it doubles up as a hepa filter and humidifier for your whole house. Just pour water in there ... *tzz*

GTX480 - its bigger and longer than yours.. and you KNOW that's what the ladies want. Upgrade your puny equipment.

Accessories - attachable roll out warming mats for your cats to purrr down on.

Untapped market - what better way to enjoy the psychedelic world of Bioshock2 than with apple schnapps - made using your very own GTX480 distillery accessory!!

Some assembly required - LCDs are so limiting, and that's why it comes with extra cables to attach to those cybernetic implants... oh wait you dont have those yet!? awwhhhh


** I tease **

[dengyong]

Why is it that in a thread about Nvidia's fermi, 50% of the posts are about ATI ?

[trinibwoy]

GTX480 - its bigger and longer than yours.. and you KNOW that's what the ladies want. Upgrade your puny equipment.

Zotac beat them to it.

[saaya]

Do you think really nVidia will be making 850Mhz chips anytime this year - remember GT240 = 550Mhz?

no... but do they have to?
nvidia needs high shader clocks, the main core clocks dont seem to matter that much...

Neliz is just stating what he has seen and heard. CJ has also said the exact samething. You are welcome to believe whatever you want.

all that means is that SOME cards can run those high clocks... even if thats stable, whether they can run that 24/7 is questionable... and how many cards can clock that high? with what kind of fanspeeds and noise?

5890 has clocks 950/5,2 GHz

thats gigabytes card, thats not a 5890...

Around 1500 is the highest core clock on LN2.

stable? link? 0.0
the highest i heard of was ~1300...

Why is it that in a thread about Nvidia's fermi, 50% of the posts are about ATI ?

cause its their only competition?

[LedHed]

so I haven't read anything about Fermi in 3 months, am I still up to date?

(I still plan on doing a RMA for the GT300)

[weston]

so I haven't read anything about Fermi in 3 months, am I still up to date?

(I still plan on doing a RMA for the GT300)

pretty much,

Core clocks are expected to be about 625/1250Mhz,
the 470 is likely to be around the speed of a 5870, the 480 will be a little faster
other than that, not much new except a lot of rumors.

[saaya]

so I haven't read anything about Fermi in 3 months, am I still up to date?

470 loses to 5870 by a bit in most games, but performs better at huge res and 8aa in crysis and hawx. supposedly ok-good availability at launch in 2 weeks, but some say after that supply will by very limited until late summer, when mainstream physically cut down fermi arrives.
470 is supposed to cost about the same as a 5870 and the 480 between a 5870 and 5970. ati will compete by pushing partners to launch oced 2gb 5870 and 5970 4gb cards....

[Olivon]

stable? link? 0.0
the highest i heard of was ~1300...

1 485/1 300MHz is the max on HWBot, on Vantage :

NickShih's 3DMark Vantage - Performance score 31007 marks

[LedHed]

470 loses to 5870 by a bit in most games, but performs better at huge res and 8aa in crysis and hawx. supposedly ok-good availability at launch in 2 weeks, but some say after that supply will by very limited until late summer, when mainstream physically cut down fermi arrives.
470 is supposed to cost about the same as a 5870 and the 480 between a 5870 and 5970. ati will compete by pushing partners to launch oced 2gb 5870 and 5970 4gb cards....

sounds good, looks like my RMA would be to the 480 since you are credited back the money spent on your card at a launch ($510 for me).

BTW what are you calling "huge res"? I play at 1920x1200 and not sure if that is considered huge by most due to 2560x1600 also being available.

Any early benches?

[Olivon]

Any early benches?

jaredpace made a good #2 post

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...19&postcount=2

Thanks to him

[LedHed]

very odd design from what I was expecting, but hopefully it runs very cool due to the intake ports, which were only seen in dual GPU cards before.

they also seem really small, which isn't a bad thing.

[RaV[666]]

very odd design from what I was expecting, but hopefully it runs very cool due to the intake ports, which were only seen in dual GPU cards before.

they also seem really small, which isn't a bad thing.

470 consumes 225W and 480 280W, so "cool" aint probably happen until some redesign/shrinkage.470 seems managable,but 480 not so much for a single die card.
Earlier post about huge res was about 2560x.

[eric66]

jaredpace made a good #2 post

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...19&postcount=2

Thanks to him

can't believe somebody did that so all hundred of pages can actually be fitted in one single post

[Sly Fox]

can't believe somebody did that so all hundred of pages can actually be fitted in one single post

Seriously. Guy's a hero, it's so annoying rummaging through this entire thread for something.

[dengyong]

Someone's playing with the tags again.... I'd say Mr. merry xmas is about to get a vacation.

[TurboDiv]

All we need is the price now. If it is equal in price to 5870, GTX 480 will be the bomb, but that is doubtful. I personally would never give more than 450$ for GTX 480 given that you cat get the 5870 for 400$...

[jaredpace]

All we need is the price now. If it is equal in price to 5870, GTX 480 will be the bomb, but that is doubtful. I personally would never give more than 450$ for GTX 480 given that you cat get the 5870 for 400$...

You're right, the value of the card can only be ~$450 since the 4870 is at the $400 mark. However, Nvidia will price it more like 500-600 bucks, and sell out completely. There aren't supposed to be many produced; they should sell well just because Nvidia fans will want to buy one. Phenom II's have a hard time competing with Core i7's, but they still sell well because AMD fans love them and want to buy them.

[onethreehill]

Another report, factory overclocked GTX 480 consumes 310W
http://www.chw.net/2010/03/nvidia-ge...-480-consumos/
Translated
http://translate.google.com.sg/trans...en-GB:official

[natty]

General performance:
gtx285 75%
hd5850 80%
gtx470 90-95%
hd5870 100%
gtx480 110-115%
hd5970 140%

If this is true then Fermi is a failure

[insurgent]

If this is true then Fermi is a failure

It's a failure only if it doesn't sell well, I doubt that.