The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[Piotrsama]

So Nvidia is going for a price war with a paper product?
I don't think ATI will bite.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/nvidia-geforce-470-480/

AKA Guru3D making sure they keep getting Nvidia cards to review with that article against "Mr. C".

[Behemot]

The best deal for us (the frequent consumers of GPU), would be:

GTX 470 for $299 which matches/beats 5850
GTX 480 for $399 which matches/beats 5870
Dual GF100 for $499 which matches/beats 5970

Totally unrealistic...have you read VR-Zone article? Even if it is 10times better in reality (what is too much optimistic), still the cards will be limited; and you have very high demand here. I expect very limited GTX 480 $599+ (probably lot pricier due to small number), GTX 470 $499+ (some higher volumes) and something like GTX 460 or 450 with far less shaders (they have to somehow rise yelds).

AMD has huge space for lowering prices and still if NVIDIA will loose on Fermi, they would want to loose as low as possible. So I personally expect high pricies thus no lowering from AMD side (as low numbers of Fermi won't harm HD 5000 sales).

[spursindonesia]

Those prices are just as hard to believe as Charlie's previous 5 % only performance advantage claim.

[eric66]

This seems like a way to make AMD lose potentially tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

If they make enough hoopla about this and the pricing, AMD going to have to reduce the price of their card from 399 down to 299 or less. And their 5850 down atleast 100 dollars.This is of course assuming the gtx 470 performs like the 5870 or better.

X million in sales * pricedrop = tens of millions to hundreds of millions in lost revenue. AMD won't lose money off each card because they are cheap to make. However, I can see the graphic division as a whole not being profitable again.

That alot of damage from a few thousand cards. In the long run this could hurt NV. Its almost a kamikaze move because I don't know how they could sell a 5xx mm2 card so cheap, even in the future.

why amd is going to reduce prices nvidia can't take that much damage for a long time amd knows that so probably fermi if priced below 400 dolars will be limited product so after few weeks there won't be any fermis to buy like 5970s which leaves only option for buyers = amd to say truth i doubt amd even cares about 58xx line or 59xx best selling ones are 5770s they are selling like hotcakes

[SKYMTL]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/nvidia-geforce-470-480/

It starts by aiming directly at Charlie and then validating 3/4 of the stuff he says. I guess Hilbert hopes that NVIDIA's PR guys only read the first few paragraphs.

[Teemax]

It starts by aiming directly at Charlie and then validating 3/4 of the stuff he says. I guess Hilbert hopes that NVIDIA's PR guys only read the first few paragraphs.

Exactly. I think Guru3D finally figured out how the NVIDIA's internet filtering algorithm works

[eric66]

It starts by aiming directly at Charlie and then validating 3/4 of the stuff he says. I guess Hilbert hopes that NVIDIA's PR guys only read the first few paragraphs.

lol yeah that was sad

[SKYMTL]

Personally, it's sad that some publications think they have to publically weigh in on these subjects without any concrete information. I mean Semi Accurate's whole reason for being around is to publish rumors and innuendo and Charlie does it quite well. Other sites like Anandtech, Guru3D and others usually stick with either reposting the rumors if we see fit while sticking to the information we know for certain.

There is no reason for an otherwise legit site to wade into the dangerous terrain of rumor-mongering other than to hope for a sudden increase in traffic. Let's be honest here: controversy brings in the traffic. There are so many rumors these days, it's best for the main hardware sites if they say nothing at all IMO.

[annihilat0r]

I expect very limited GTX 480 $599+ (probably lot pricier due to small number), GTX 470 $499+ (some higher volumes)

no.

[FischOderAal]

It starts by aiming directly at Charlie and then validating 3/4 of the stuff he says.

When I was a child, my mother used to say "the tone makes the music", meaning that you can tell the same in different way causing different reactions.

What Charlie wrote sounds like a typical, non-objective rant. The article on Guru3D confirms some of the arguments, but also says Fermi will be "very fast".

Which text you rather believe if you didn't know who wrote them?

[SKYMTL]

Which text you rather believe if you didn't know who wrote them?

At this point, neither. Charlie's articles are clearly meant to inflame a situation and garner him with more readers. Guru3D's is purely reactionary and knee-jerk in nature.

All I'm saying is that I am sick and bloody tired of seeing this back and forth BS. It demeans otherwise legitimate sites when they wade into a discussion about rumors by posting a "me too!" article without citing proper, quotable sources.

[cowie]

Totally unrealistic...have you read VR-Zone article?).

not vr zone but its Source: SemiAccurate
is sad that some would go towards s/a then guru but
]like the guy said it cant be made so why are you guys here?...go stand by your man it cant be made...those are big claims.

bigger the bs the more hits he is not there for the news just to gather hits for his ad rates.

[Sam_oslo]

Totally unrealistic...have you read VR-Zone article? Even if it is 10times better in reality (what is too much optimistic), still the cards will be limited; and you have very high demand here. I expect very limited GTX 480 $599+ (probably lot pricier due to small number), GTX 470 $499+ (some higher volumes) and something like GTX 460 or 450 with far less shaders (they have to somehow rise yelds).

AMD has huge space for lowering prices and still if NVIDIA will loose on Fermi, they would want to loose as low as possible. So I personally expect high pricies thus no lowering from AMD side (as low numbers of Fermi won't harm HD 5000 sales).

I didn't say it would be the most realistic scenario, but said "The best deal for us (the frequent consumers of GPU), would be ... " that scenario.
My assumptions and Perice speculations was based on the breaking news: "GTX 470 for $299", and if it holds true, then I believe your scenario with those high prices will become totally unrealistic.

[Dimitriman]

If the day comes where Nvidia launches Fermi at 299$ then that's the day where they also start charging royalties for playing any games on your pc. Just like video games do.

It's way too unlikely that such a massive and expensive chip will sell for so little retail, especially since all the AMD price rises. Nvidia's loyalty based customers are a much much greater number then many believe. Even if Fermi is SLOWER than Cypress, there are enough Nvidia loyals that will buy it regardless and keep them at a safe revenue margin.

Just go fishing for all the posts claiming Nvidia cards "feel better", are "more reliable", "graphics look nicer" etc. as their reason for purchase and you will see exactly the people I'm talking about here.

I believe the only thing that can make Fermi fail is not launching it.

[Sam_oslo]

I don't know if the news about "GTX 470 for $299" holds true. It is just braking out, and I draw my conclusions assuming that the news was true. Something I made clear from the start.

But where did you hear that nVidia is going to charge royalties for playing games. Have you heard any news, form where? or just speculating? in case based on what?

[Dimitriman]

Based on nothing at all its just a joke mate don't worry

I meant was that if Nvidia sold GTX470 at 299$ they are likely to lose money at those prices. Considering the large amount of costs they have had till now and yet still have very very low margins. The cost to produce 1 chip must be very close to 299$, some speculate even more.

My example with console games is that PS3 cost much more than 600 Euro to manufacture at launch, but it sold at lower than cost in order to obtain market share, profits comes from royalties from the games. Each game for PS3 you buy, earns Sony some money which pays for their losses on PS3.

Just an example and a joke. No Nvidia will not charge royalties

[Sam_oslo]

Oh, good to hear

I thought maybe you where of those. "Even if Cypress is SLOWER than Fermi , there are enough ATi royals that will buy it regardless and keep them at a safe revenue margin", scenarios.

[Dimitriman]

Hehe

Btw the people I refer to are not exacly Fanboys. Fanboys stay quiet when the ship isn't sailing at the front.

These "loyals" I mean simply will not take an ATI product over Nvidia ever, because of their long standing commitment. And they proudly announce it any day, good or bad. Most have been buying Nvidia since the golden age and will never interest in any other brand.

Similar thing happens in Mac users. Or Playstation users.

[KiSUAN]

Fact:



http://www.sabrepc.com/p-174-xfx-gef...16-retail.aspx U$S700

http://www.sabrepc.com/p-175-xfx-gef...16-retail.aspx U$S 500

http://www.techpowerup.com/115816/Ge...ts_Listed.html

[BenchZowner]

Fact:



http://www.sabrepc.com/p-174-xfx-gef...16-retail.aspx U$S700

http://www.sabrepc.com/p-175-xfx-gef...16-retail.aspx U$S 500

http://www.techpowerup.com/115816/Ge...ts_Listed.html

ROFL.
Here are the facts:

1) The specifications are incorrect
2) That shop sucks and they're just trying to get some attention and attract customers this way

[jmke]

repost much?
(@KiSUAN)

[HuffPCair]

Fact:



http://www.sabrepc.com/p-174-xfx-gef...16-retail.aspx U$S700

http://www.sabrepc.com/p-175-xfx-gef...16-retail.aspx U$S 500

http://www.techpowerup.com/115816/Ge...ts_Listed.html

Don't use that site. They are doing that for traffic. does no one find it weird that this site was no one till yesterday? Come on.
While the prices are probably going to be around that because it is Nvidia and they seem to not believe in low prices.

[HuffPCair]

Everyone knows the truth Nvidia is going to price these things high because they know they can. Nvidia has always been priced high compared to ATI from what I can remember. So why would they change that now. I just hope we all have not been waiting on this amazing card and get a hard piece of white ooo I mean green poo.

I see ATI maybe dropping their prices a little when these cards are released, but if they are still selling why drop the price?

[Behemot]

ROFL.
Here are the facts:

1) The specifications are incorrect
2) That shop sucks and they're just trying to get some attention and attract customers this way

1) I see no specs there. Have they removed it? But still, I thought we don't know final specs yet, so how can you blame them when nobody knows right nubmers??
2) I know many shops like this here, some of them are good if you want something cheap and have time for waiting until they stock it; you ever bought something from this one that you're making judgements?

[Piotrsama]

Fact:
http://www.sabrepc.com/p-174-xfx-gef...16-retail.aspx

Here's another fact: (second review)

My Wife Left Me

Reviewed By on 2/21/2010 12:00:00 AM
Tech Level: High understanding - Ownership: 1 week - 1 month
Pros: Packaging was pretty nice. Came with a free copy of Metro 2033 and Bioshock 2.

Cons: I came home 2 days after installing into my computer, and found my wife packing her bags, saying she was moving out and taking the GTX480 with her. She said it pleases her in more ways than I would ever know. She packed her bags and took the kids.

Other Thoughts: The house is empty.