The GT300/Fermi Thread

[annihilat0r]

He's talking about A2 but I thought there was another revision after that? A3 or B1 or whatever

[h0bbes]

*cough*B1*cough*

Apparently

[neliz]

You didn't know nothing back then, and you still don't know anything. Nobody knows for sure yet, because the retail product (or any of details) is not out yet.

Hahahaha. So, in your little boxed up world something like Fermi just pops out of thin air and is there? It doesn't require years of work and nvidia doesn't update their partners at all? they just say "oh, here's our new product, go and have fun with it!"

So according to you there are no cards out at developers and partners and nv suddenly doesn't inform anyone.

I wonder how I leaked the Fermi name a couple of days before Fuad posted his first article about it prior to GTC. (though I must admit some people posted it before but were not quite sure. Theo's 24x24? saying that for months where "respected" websites and NV PR spinners have been saying it's smaller since last May. I hope they're not paying you to spread the Fermi word, because you're doing a pretty bad job.

The truth will come out. GF100 might look good now.. but let me tell you, AMD never planned on positioning HD5870 against Fermi.

A3 went into production back in Early December. What I'm hearing right now is that A3 will probably not be the final revision.
Much like GT200b1 was shown in May 08. Demo'ed with b2 in September, reviewed and sold in minor (tesla) quantities in b2 up to November and finally became available (many months after) in b3.

Sam_Oslo's reply here \/

[zerazax]

You didn't know nothing back then, and you still don't know anything. Nobody knows for sure yet, because the retail product (or any of details) is not out yet.

A couple of other kids have been speculating with this kind of childish arguments since July.

No actually he was spot on with everything about RV870 back then, and broke plenty before others on Fermi

[Sam_oslo]

Hahahaha. So, in your little boxed up world something like Fermi just pops out of thin air and is there? It doesn't require years of work and nvidia doesn't update their partners at all? they just say "oh, here's our new product, go and have fun with it!"

So according to you there are no cards out at developers and partners and nv suddenly doesn't inform anyone.

I wonder how I leaked the Fermi name a couple of days before Fuad posted his first article about it prior to GTC. (though I must admit some people posted it before but were not quite sure. Theo's 24x24? saying that for months where "respected" websites and NV PR spinners have been saying it's smaller since last May. I hope they're not paying you to spread the Fermi word, because you're doing a pretty bad job.

The truth will come out. GF100 might look good now.. but let me tell you, AMD never planned on positioning HD5870 against Fermi.

A3 went into production back in Early December. What I'm hearing right now is that A3 will probably not be the final revision.
Much like GT200b1 was shown in May 08. Demo'ed with b2 in September, reviewed and sold in minor (tesla) quantities in b2 up to November and finally became available (many months after) in b3.

Sam_Oslo's reply here \/

Are you indicating to have inside info?, or have contact with some partner?

Even if you have heard something about the the name and such, it doesn't mean that you should take off totally and get so sure that you are acting.

Nothing is that sure yet, and nobody can say anything for sure before benchmarking the retail GPU, but those early benchmarks are showing something else than your speculations based on some info that you have heard from somebody.

[BenchZowner]

so AI enabled basically means a FC2 run becomes a flyby, while AI disabled the bench tool will pretend somebody is playing the game and do all the ai calculations?
didnt know that, thx!

You need to focus man
AI enabled = botmatch ( like somebody is playing the game and does all the ai calculations )
AI disabled = flyby

[zalbard]

Are you indicating to have inside info?, or have contact with some partner?

Maybe neliz = Jen-Hsun Huang? How can you be sure on ze interwebz?!

[h0bbes]

Even though i prefer ATI (9800 pro was my last desktop card:P) i really want Fermi to be successfull since i will buy a new system sometime soon and those prices have to go down + it might push ATI harder. Compared to what MOST people are saying/hypothesizing/guessing/hoping here, neliz seems to know his stuff better. Anyway as people have already said countless times, we can't be sure about anything until we get some more independent reviews and probably by that time i will stop caring!

[Tim]

Are you indicating to have inside info?, or have contact with some partner?

Even if you have heard something about the the name and such, it doesn't mean that you should take off totally and get so sure that you are acting.

Nothing is that sure yet, and nobody can say anything for sure before benchmarking the retail GPU, but those early benchmarks are showing something else than your speculations based on some info that you have heard from somebody.

You managed to dodge and meh everything neliz posted there, well done!

[Sam_oslo]

You managed to dodge and meh everything neliz posted there, well done!

Thx, but it was doomed to happen, anyways. Nobody can act as sure as him without proper documentation.

EDIT:
It is always fun to predicts the trends, and make some educated guess and assumption, but acting too sure about a unreleased product is not the proper way to act.

[NapalmV5]

You have to realize that both architectures are very different, you can't compare ATI's shaders to Nvidia's Cuda Cores on a one-by-one basis.
It's similar to the old Athlon VS Pentium 4 debate.
It's not about quantity of working units, but how they work, and ultimately how good performance is.

And BTW, you are supposing that fermi will have the upper hand on said comparison, but most people don't share that thought.
Think about this: Why did Nvidia compare GF100 vs the 5870? (instead of the 5970). That should give you an idea.



Considering what Nvidia said about XFX, I wouldn't expect them to be on the first batch of fermi cards.

hmmm and i thought you had some inside info seems you just based your claims on your flawed logic. shader comparison is funny though if you divide atis shaders to 5 that means atis 160 lower clocked shaders matched highly clocked 240 shaders and unless fermis shaders are some sort of miracle its really hard to believe that only 512 shaders can match 3200. Fermi has few undeniable advantages though higher 'memory and bandwith' and being single gpu are important ones

You do realize that the "3200" shaders are just how ATI counts it (marketing speak) right? You've got to divide that by 5 to get the equivalent count for Nvidia... so 640 to 512, and that's not counting the fact that Nvidia has a hot clock meaning the shaders on the Nvidia part are overall more, equivalently

As for your bandwidth talk, that's hilarious seeing as how you once were championing 512-bit as a necessity, when 256-bit + GDDR5 did just fine when it came to the RV770 vs. GTX285

Slow down on the kool-aid thar



I don't see Fermi selling for 400-500$ at all unless it's performance really is under the 5970's by a decent margin. No way has Nvidia EVER sold a top end card without a premium. See: GTX 280 vs. 260 prices at launch.

And I'm pretty sure people have gotten in trouble for claiming to know stuff on this forum without substantiating it

maybe you guys need to "Slow down on the kool-aid thar" may i suggest some guinness to balance you guys out a bit ??

let me put it this way.. transistor per transistor nvidia has higher efficiency/performance than ati whether you agree or not like it or not.. you guys can turn blue it aint gonna change

oh btw top 512 fermi could go up against a single 3200sp radeon.. thats why it cuts thru 5970 like knife thru butter

[FischOderAal]

oh btw top 512 fermi could go up against a single 3200sp radeon.. thats why it cuts thru 5970 like knife thru butter

You either like to play with fire or you're 100 percent sure about that, like in "I hold it in my hands" sure.

There've been others who were very sure about their claims (can't blame them if they just said what sources told them) like the whole "Fermi will be released in november/december" thingy.

[NapalmV5]

february/march lol..

oh wait ... wait.. someone seems to forget that they actually need boards to make people surprised. and without cards.. no game..

if we want to be surprised next month.. actually let the people that make and sell the card know they're getting them.. which is not the case if nv told it's partners last week they don't expect any shipment in march.

you want your chips.. bang on tsmc's doors theyve been holding everyone back

[NapalmV5]

You either like to play with fire or you're 100 percent sure about that, like in "I hold it in my hands" sure.

There've been others who were very sure about their claims (can't blame them if they just said what sources told them) like the whole "Fermi will be released in november/december" thingy.

am i not napalm ??

[BenchZowner]

Yeah neliz is J. H. Huang
FWIW he may be a forklift operator at TSMC, he might be a packaging guy at CoolerMaster.
We can all play dr nice, mr smart, and mr predictor hiding behind our own finger.

By the way neliz, you were not the first to come up with the name Fermi, neither about any of the technical characteristics of the GPU.
Nobody was actually.

Some people hear things, some real and some... not so real info, from friends, contacts, whatever.
Nobody in the media/manufacturing sector has been 100% right every time, nobody.

Now unless you're Derek, Haan, or somebody in TSMC or nVIDIA's GPU team stop stating things as facts.
Nobody likes to be in the "wrong" side in the end, trust me

And if you in fact are somebody, hiding your identity & status isn't nice at all.

[annihilat0r]

By the way neliz, you were not the first to come up with the name Fermi, neither about any of the technical characteristics of the GPU.
Nobody was actually.

The Zed_X guy was pretty much accurate in everything he said.

[Macadamia]

Some people hear things, some real and some... not so real info, from friends, contacts, whatever.
Nobody in the media/manufacturing sector has been 100% right every time, nobody.

At least he's not the one presuming ATI engineers are idiots... unlike most of the green plants here.


The fact that you (and some others) take it so seriously to discredit him instead shows... I dunno... a huge inferiority complex? Hiding egos behind a graphics card now are we?

[zerazax]

Neliz also called out 64 TMU's in this own thread when everyone automatically assumed 128

maybe you guys need to "Slow down on the kool-aid thar" may i suggest some guinness to balance you guys out a bit ??

let me put it this way.. transistor per transistor nvidia has higher efficiency/performance than ati whether you agree or not like it or not.. you guys can turn blue it aint gonna change

oh btw top 512 fermi could go up against a single 3200sp radeon.. thats why it cuts thru 5970 like knife thru butter

For someone who admitted that they have no actual clue about the real performance in this thread, this post is gold

[JohnZS]

Am I the only person who thinks nVidia are dragging on Fermi like some old Soap Opera that has run 15years too many?!?
BRING ON THE REAL REVIEWS FACTS AND FIGURES!!!
John

[Sadasius]

Am I the only person who thinks nVidia are dragging on Fermi like some old Soap Opera that has run 15years too many?!?
BRING ON THE REAL REVIEWS FACTS AND FIGURES!!!
John

+1 no kidding. Looking at this thread every day with all the unknowns flying around makes you wonder if people are chasing a unicorn or something. Does it exist? Who knows. Do I care? Not really because ATI beat them to the punch already.

[JohnZS]

+1 no kidding. Looking at this thread every day with all the unknowns flying around makes you wonder if people are chasing a unicorn or something. Does it exist? Who knows. Do I care? Not really because ATI beat them to the punch already.

I only care because none of them offer what I want. (That being a decent >1GB card).

My only hope is Ati "canned" the "six" 2GB HD5870 to make something new and shiny, like say perhaps a 2GB (across the range) 5890 which is clocked @ 1Ghz and has faster memory and a few tweaks here and there...

And that Fermi has 1.5GB (at least) with some versions/editions offering 3GB!
John

[RaZz!]

lol, gotta love the thread tags

[Chumbucket843]

You do realize that the "3200" shaders are just how ATI counts it (marketing speak) right? You've got to divide that by 5 to get the equivalent count for Nvidia... so 640 to 512, and that's not counting the fact that Nvidia has a hot clock meaning the shaders on the Nvidia part are overall more, equivalently

you dont divide anything by 5. they count their alu's the same way as nvidia does. games today barely need this much shading relative to other parts of graphics.

[570091D]

At least he's not the one presuming ATI engineers are idiots... unlike most of the green plants here.


The fact that you (and some others) take it so seriously to discredit him instead shows... I dunno... a huge inferiority complex? Hiding egos behind a graphics card now are we?

pot vs. kettle

Am I the only person who thinks nVidia are dragging on Fermi like some old Soap Opera that has run 15years too many?!?
BRING ON THE REAL REVIEWS FACTS AND FIGURES!!!
John

they have to finalize the card, begin mass production, and release review boards first.... not that anyone has asked for a "real" review yet.

+1 no kidding. Looking at this thread every day with all the unknowns flying around makes you wonder if people are chasing a unicorn or something. Does it exist? Who knows. Do I care? Not really because ATI beat them to the punch already.

then what is the purpose of this post? the purpose of this thread is to SPECULATE ON THE FUTURE OF THE GF100. as it's final verson doesn't exist, the only thing anyone on this forum can do is speculate.

or troll...

[Aerwidh]

I only care because none of them offer what I want. (That being a decent >1GB card).

My only hope is Ati "canned" the "six" 2GB HD5870 to make something new and shiny, like say perhaps a 2GB (across the range) 5890 which is clocked @ 1Ghz and has faster memory and a few tweaks here and there...

And that Fermi has 1.5GB (at least) with some versions/editions offering 3GB!
John

Just curious, couldn't you just buy one of those 5870 "six" (when they come out) and overclock it a bit?