The GT300/Fermi Thread

[Scaniris]

Love ATI cards, hate the drivers. Love Nvidia drivers, hate the card cost...

But the first exception I had was the HD5970. For 600€ I paid (680USD) I had so many problems with drivers and probably bios that I swapped it with 2x GTX295... 2 weeks @ home and already swapped. Was expensive, and absolutely not mature. After 9.12 drivers, still some problems, and you have to tweak some settings manually to avoid lockups and crashes...

So what. ATI released some HD5970 with beta 5 drivers, and 2 a high end price.... in the watercooling forum you can see that some people are affected by issues that don't have to happen on high end products like this. It seems that these cards were not really mature, driver, bios or driver I don't care, I was furious and never do this stupid error again. Early adopting is not for me. I'm just worried about ATI to sell a card still bugged and looking as a beta sample, customers are NOT beta testers if they pay for a product and a service.

So... I'll probably not do it again and for Fermi I'll wait for reviews from others!

Hopefully we will see that with the new generation cards are just too powerful for this nonsense to effect us.
John

For average use requirements, today's products for today's games are already oversized. We are only human, Being able to see the difference between 123 and 135fps in a game... except on a OSD from RTSS... or on Benchmarks... I'm not superman.

So it depends on what people are looking for. But what you say for graphic cards is so true for X86 based systems for example. Without virtualization, a Nehalem based server for standard purposes will be under utilized.

Finally maybe some games like Crysis will still be exceptions... but for the rest...

What's the most important thing for me is to have performance + stability. I prefer to have 10% less frame rate, but no driver issues, no temps issues, no bios issues, no issues because of non mature new features (powerplay?).

In the coming months, what I'll be looking for is how reliable the solutions are. If Fermi offers less power @ same price than ATI, but has a better reputation for stability amd maturity, I'll go for a Fermi. Or... keep my GTXs... will depend on how performance increase and how games and videos take benefits of this.

[zalbard]

Yes, I gotta admit that the release of 5970 was terrible.
I still have no idea why they hurried to release the card so much without any proper drivers whatsoever.

[Nedjo]

But the first exception I had was the HD5970. For 600€ I paid (680USD) I had so many problems with drivers and probably bios that I swapped it with 2x GTX295... 2 weeks @ home and already swapped. Was expensive, and absolutely not mature. After 9.12 drivers, still some problems, and you have to tweak some settings manually to avoid lockups and crashes...

writing all this stuff w/o giving any proof is usually called FUD, especially in the light of the fact that 5970 won so many awards...

and yeah you could have written all this in your previous post instead that smiley

[GoldenTiger]

I'm not a fanboy one way or the other...Love ATI cards, hate the drivers. Love Nvidia drivers, hate the card cost...

Ditto, I like nVidia's drivers better for scaling, compatibility with older games, and general stability + color settings, as well as the control panel. ATI's cards are nice but the drivers usually give me issues. They're both good, but I personally prefer an nVidia card when available even if it costs a bit more due to this. (I own a 5870 right now and owned a GTX 280 prior).

[neliz]

Someone at B3D noticed that all the GF100 boards have 2 sets of 8P power running to the 8P connector. I've checked the EVGA 3Way SLI setup and it has the same for all three cards..

I say, fry me some eggs.

pics:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1175/1/

Seems to rhyme pretty well with the pcworld.fr story that they can't go higher without breaking 300W. To quote someone else, "GF100 is a dog..."

[Scaniris]

writing all this stuff w/o giving any proof is usually called FUD, especially in the light of the fact that 5970 won so many awards...

and yeah you could have written all this in your previous post instead that smiley

Did we discussed together before? I don't remember this so Hi, nice to meet you there, I'm Cyril and I'm happy to be there sharing informations and thoughts with you.

And before talking about me Fuding there, you should know 3 things:

- I'm working for one of the 4 world major IT manufacturers as ITAC, and
I HATE Fuding because it's opposite of what I'm doing in my daily business, absolutely not compatible with my ethic @ work and in the real life , I'm neither a sales guy nore a marketing guy. I'm there to share, have fun, learn and have objective and pragmatic discussions with others, I'm not there to fight or to fud

- Did you already had a look into the ATI forum and into the watercooling forum? If not, a short refresh about latest news, you'll see people, me included, trying to find workarounds... with this HD5970

Here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=241616&page=2
Here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=239276&page=3
Here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=240358&page=2
Here: http://forums.amd.com/game/messagevi...&enterthread=y

Another one on the EVGA forum.

- Last bnl: I thought I was editing my message, but instead of that, I was posting a new one. So it's not wanted to have a reply only with a smiley.

So please...don't teach me about what Fud is please. And moderate yourself when you talk with people you don't know, you're on a forum yes but behind keyboard there are real human people. Keep some critical distance and try to stay objective with me and others. I don't know you so I hope it's some kind of misunderstanding because of this lonesone smiley. Hope everything is crystal clear now about my intentions. If you have a look on previous posts in this thread you'll see that I moderate my conclusions after the press news I gave about high temps. I'm not that kind of guy with kid's maturity and negative mindset.



PS: and remember: I'm french and english isn't my first language. It's not alway easy for me to be as precise and fine with English as with French. But I take care of details as far as I can to avoid such situations where language may provoke misunderstandings. Why would I loose my time to make efforts speaking in english if it's for being a troll? It would be easier to do it on french forum right?

[Serpentarius]

any news on Fermi at CES 2010?

surprisingly there's no threads on CES 2010 .. no one's going?

[neliz]

any news on Fermi at CES 2010?

surprisingly there's no threads on CES 2010 .. no one's going?

Supposedly the people that stood too close to it died of dehydration.

[Cybercat]

Supposedly the people that stood too close to it died of dehydration.

Well NVIDIA did say the card would be killer.

[Sly Fox]

Well NVIDIA did say the card would be killer.

BA-ZING!!!!!

[To(V)bo Co(V)bo]

Charlie has said that the final card will only have 448 "cuda cores"?

[zerazax]

Someone at B3D noticed that all the GF100 boards have 2 sets of 8P power running to the 8P connector. I've checked the EVGA 3Way SLI setup and it has the same for all three cards..

I say, fry me some eggs.

pics:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1175/1/

Seems to rhyme pretty well with the pcworld.fr story that they can't go higher without breaking 300W. To quote someone else, "GF100 is a dog..."

Good catch...

All we need to hear next is PSU companies having Fermi certified PSU's

[Zed_X]

NDA will lifts few days after 14th, today is main GeForce 300 Deep Dive meeting. I can say this: GeForce 300 has higher perf then GTX 295 with lowest power consuption. Look at GTX 295 vs HD5870/5970 in reviews and you can calculate +/- perf of 380



Try tecpowerup.com for example. There is GTX 295 under HD 5970 about 14 percent, better then HD 5870 +/- 9 percent. If will be GF 380 beter then GTX 295 about +/- 10 percent, will be 5 percent under HD 5970 and outperform HD 5870 +/- 20 percent, sounds real? I think so.

[Teemax]

NDA will lifts few days after 14th, today is main GeForce 300 Deep Dive meeting. I can say this: GeForce 300 has higher perf then GTX 295 with lowest power consuption. Look at GTX 295 vs HD5870/5970 in reviews and you can calculate +/- perf of 380

Who exactly are you btw?

[ajaidev]

NDA will lifts few days after 14th, today is main GeForce 300 Deep Dive meeting. I can say this: GeForce 300 has higher perf then GTX 295 with lowest power consuption. Look at GTX 295 vs HD5870/5970 in reviews and you can calculate +/- perf of 380

You are correct i can backup your story about the performance, it is faster than the GTX295 but it does not beat the 5970 but its a real fight with crysis.

[eric66]

NDA will lifts few days after 14th, today is main GeForce 300 Deep Dive meeting. I can say this: GeForce 300 has higher perf then GTX 295 with lowest power consuption. Look at GTX 295 vs HD5870/5970 in reviews and you can calculate +/- perf of 380



Try tecpowerup.com for example.

what are specs of 380 or wait nvidia didn't finished them lol and if power consumption is so low why do they have 2 sets of 8ps ?

ps taken from your previous post : GeForce 380 has huge power consumption, but performance is only few percent under HD 5970 and far away from HD 5870 perf. Trust me, will see next week on many servers, when NDA for info lifts! lol

[Dante80]

The key here guys is perf/watt, perf/$ and OCability. It is a given that nvidia is preparing a monster to get the blue ribbon (perf crown) and it certainly should, since its coming many months later than ATIs latest gen.

From the start I speculated that they were aiming for about 50% more raw juice than cypress (given the die-size, money invested and big die strategy), and it seems that they will miss that mark slightly settling just outside the baby driver geared 5970. From what we hear and see the problems in TSMC may be the main culprit for it (both due to low yields and clock problems).

What we really need now is a good hard launch in prices that at least correspond to perf/$ ratios, and a strategy flexible enough to cover more market segments (via repairing or other means). I think that nvidia is up to the challenge and despite the many problems will deliver soundly.

Having said that, it would be also interesting to see if and with what ATI will try to respond to that.

Happy times ahead.

[zerazax]

Indeed it'll be interesting to see what ATI has up their sleeves for a counter, given that GT300 is coming out nearly half a year later, I'm sure ATI has been cooking up something...

[WeeMaan]

Can't wait until the "deep dive" into Fermi begins.

[Tim]

If true, beating the 295 is good performance wise albeit late to the market.

This means that they will need the dual GT300 for the performance crown though. But one completely new architecture that at launch already can reach for the 5970 would be sweet. Drivers should come a long way after launch, then perhaps the gap is closer.

IF it indeed has 448 Cuda cores, and it should have been 512, then that would be a real shame. Hopefully the refresh should be better then. But I can imagine the next node is far away.

Now we just need rumours on power consumption, price. Let's hope it's not 300w!

Ps. they better get some midrange and low end cards out pretty quickly.

Someone at B3D noticed that all the GF100 boards have 2 sets of 8P power running to the 8P connector. I've checked the EVGA 3Way SLI setup and it has the same for all three cards..

I say, fry me some eggs.

pics:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1175/1/

Seems to rhyme pretty well with the pcworld.fr story that they can't go higher without breaking 300W. To quote someone else, "GF100 is a dog..."

I never know when to take your posts serious.

[neliz]

After yesterday's pics of the 3 PEG connectors, nvidia now wisely decided to obscure it from view.

[JohnZS]

:.

What's the most important thing for me is to have performance + stability. I prefer to have 10% less frame rate, but no driver issues, no temps issues, no bios issues, no issues because of non mature new features (powerplay?).
.

Same here Scaniris
I have had to RMA 3 GTX 280 cards
My first one lasted for ~7months before the screen started to get pink dots.
Second one (RMA replacement) was a DOA
Third one lasted for ~9months and then started to run extremely hot (loud fan too) and develop black flashing retangles in DirectX 10 games such as Clearsky, Crysis and (yes it's not a game) 3dmark Vantage.
I have a 285 on the way, but it is delayed because of the snow

Anyway back on topic I agree that stability is key and performance too, but stability more so.

The ATi HD 5970 is not out yet in the UK , perhaps when it is released here the drivers would be much better. The 5870 series stocks are very low here, but they have been out since December.

nVidia really do need to hard launch, and launch well as ATi's launch as been woeful here.

Charlie is semi accurate. The Tesla Fermi does indeed have 448 cores, however Quadro varients have a 448 3GB version coming EARLY Q2 2010 and a 512piper 6GB version coming sometime Q3 2010.

I would assume the same could be said for desktop cards (except perhaps the memory halved) and then perhaps a sneaky refresh of the 448 part @ 480pipes (rather like the GTX 260-216)

As for power consumption, it would not surprise me if it the test/beta cards have 2x 8pin, but the retail cards are 2x 6pin or 1x8pin and 1x6pin.
Remember that this product is still not fit for human consumption, nVidia have 6weeks? or so of tweakage to go.

John

[eric66]

After yesterday's pics of the 3 PEG connectors, nvidia now wisely decided to obscure it from view.

haha pathetic

[N19h7m4r3]

That looks more like a camera blur, also it was only 2 connectors.

That much was very easy to see.

[marten_larsson]

NDA will lifts few days after 14th, today is main GeForce 300 Deep Dive meeting. I can say this: GeForce 300 has higher perf then GTX 295 with lowest power consuption. Look at GTX 295 vs HD5870/5970 in reviews and you can calculate +/- perf of 380

Try tecpowerup.com for example. There is GTX 295 under HD 5970 about 14 percent, better then HD 5870 +/- 9 percent. If will be GF 380 beter then GTX 295 about +/- 10 percent, will be 5 percent under HD 5970 and outperform HD 5870 +/- 20 percent, sounds real? I think so.

Well, yes. If you count in all those CPU limited scenarios. If you look at 1920x1080 and 2560x1600 the difference is bigger. 5970 is 20-30% faster than GTX295 and 5870 is 12-13% slower than GTX295.